HOSTING MUNIR ZULU

We feature former Lumezi MP, Hon. Munir Zulu since his release from incarceration

Transcript

SPEAKER_12 0:52

We want this! We want this! We want the chest!

SPEAKER_05 4:58

Good day and welcome to today's program. Today we are privileged. We are hosting Honorable Munia Zulu. Remember, he was recently incarcerated for what we call speech offenses, matters that many organizations have been citing Zambia against that Zambia is abusing human rights, that it has criminalized speech offenses. Munia Zulu didn't steal, didn't commit any other crime other than express his views in parliament and when he expressed his views about other matters and the country has criminalized speech using the Cybersecurity and Cybercrimes Act, and it has even relieved those odd laws, seditious laws that we last saw in the 60s and 70s that are now commonplace under President Akainde Helema. Although President Hakainde H Lema has outlawed criminal defamation of the president, it has been rebooted, reinvigorated under the cyber crimes and cybersecurity laws which were laws against cybersecurity and cybercrime, but instead they've imported speech offenses into those acts. Would like to congratulate the Zambians, especially the Zambian youth, that today was their day. Remember, we're commemorating Women's Day just on Sunday, and today we're remembering our young people who burdened the shoulder and bedded the problems of our country because they are the majority in number. And therefore, the problems whether it's unemployment, the youth unemployment crisis we have, whether it's shelter, whether it's diseases, the burden is on the young people. Yet they are excluded from decision-making and running the country. And it was very hateful for many of us to see a young, vibrant leader in Honorable Munia Zulu to be, you know, subjected, uh, disenfranchised, and they even took away his seat, um, Lumezi uh seat that he held. Let me welcome Honorable Munia Zulu. And uh Honorable Munia Zulu, welcome to today's program. And I'm privileged and thankful that you chose our platform to, you know, before you go to any other media, you came to our media. So welcome back to society, welcome back to the struggle, and welcome to Zambia.

SPEAKER_20 7:27

Thank you, Ambassador. And uh, permit me to correct you in your preamble that uh I was incarcerated for my speech. I was incarcerated for asking questions. I merely asked questions, those questions were never answered, and uh I went in. Asking a question is what was criminal because uh there is a difference between asking questions and uh speaking. I posed questions where we had hoped that we get answers, those answers were never given. I know that asking a question is criminal. Though one thing is correct, I posed those questions from privileged grounds and then uh answers were never given. Instead the story is what everybody knows. I was in prison and not only one prison, I had the real privilege of being transferred to different prisons. I started with Chimbukayra, Mwembeshi L Man prison, then I was taken to Mukoveko Maximum Prison in Kowe, central province of the Republic of Zambia, uh where Captain Solo was, and then uh the day before my discharge I was taken to media within Kabwe. So I've had a real privilege of going to four different uh prisons. I've had uh a real privilege of being housed by five different uh correction officer in charge, and mention two, and then uh the rest one. So it's been a rough ride, but I'm here.

SPEAKER_05 9:48

We are grateful that the Lord has been merciful, has kept you know your life intact. Uh first thing first, like you stated, in one instance you just asked questions, in the other, uh you were a whistleblower. You came across information that uh an act of corruption and bribery had taken place, and you were asking law enforcement agencies to pursue this matter instead of pursuing the matter, and instead of pursuing the suspects, they pursued you and ensured that you were jailed. But be behind the facts that Zambians are already aware. Sadly, the harassment, the humiliation, and you know, the persecution followed you in prison. Just walk us through from the day they sent you to prison. We used to see those defiant pictures of you, you know. But just walk us through your stay in prison. I can follow you. I although your internet appears like it's lagging, but hope it improves. Yes, we are. Yeah, thank you, Honorable uh Munia Zulu. Um remember I can see the internet is lagging behind where Honorable Munia Zulu is. Let me just take a short break and uh speak to the technician to understand that we we are okay.

SPEAKER_17 12:25

We have serious problems that need to be addressed. Unity cannot be there when other regions in this nation are crying foul. The Barossa Agreement, as you know, was abrogated in 1969 and removed from the constitution of Zambia, meaning that that agreement now became obsolete. But the people are crying foul. Today, the remains of our late president Edgar Chagwalungu, for us who are Zambians, like for me, I don't even know where they are. That breaks my heart. A leader is supposed to be honest, a leader is supposed to have integrity, a leader is supposed to be humble. It doesn't take anything from a leader when you are humble enough to sometimes compromise so that right can be done. We are going into the elections on 13th August 2026, and yet our late president still remains in the freezer. That is heartbreaking. The man has a family, the man has a family of Zambia. We were far ahead of other nations. Talk about Botswana, talk about Namibia, talk about um Tanzania. But today, when you look at Zambia, we are lagging behind. Why are we lagging behind? It's because of the faulty leadership. A leadership that cannot humble themselves. The constitution of Zambia, the one that we are using today, is so obsolete, handed down to us by the colonial masters. If it's obsolete, we need to change it to be able to suit the Zambian people today. Zambians have suffered, it is enough. Let's have a leadership that is bold, that is honest, that has integrity. That is what the Council of Elders are calling for. Thank you for listening and may God bless you all.

SPEAKER_05 14:32

Thank you very much to all dear viewers that are that are joined us on this youth day. We are hosting Honorable Munia Zulu in his inaugural uh major interview before he uh, you know, just after he uh left prison and found once again peace and freedom. Today we are hosting Honorable Munia Zulu. He went to prison for speech offenses matters. Both the United Nations um Human Rights Commission and other bodies have cited, have brought down the human rights practice ranking for Zambia. Zambia is now being cited together with even war-ton countries like Sudan. We are at the bottom of human rights. And one of the victims that is regularly cited is Munia Zulu, whose offense was only to speak, and to speak only. He just spoke in one case, he was a whistleblower, in the other case, he was um uh uh you know he he asked questions, those questions lay criminalized. Remember, Zambia has um uh uh uh abandoned and you know expanded from statute the criminal defamation of the president, but these have been reborn under the Cyber Security and Cyber Crimes Act, they've been reborn by bringing very old laws. So we are hosting Honorable Munia Zulu to understand his experience and his future, his future uh uh uh uh uh sport. It looks like he's back on the internet. Let me just go back to Honorable Munia Zulu. It looked like like the internet was failing us, but let's go on as my team, my technician, improve Honorable Munia Zulu. Just continue with what you were explaining that when the magistrate put his gravel down and you were sent to prison, you were saying you were sent to the lion's den. Kindly explain those thoughts. Okay, we'll get back to him. Honorable Zulu is out of prison. I can see his eyes, his haircut, you can see here he was with Chandakawe, a former uh GMMU national coordinator who went to see him just shortly after he was released. And um here he was with Makebezulu. This was the day that he was released, and Makebezulu, uh you know, one of the presidential aspirants, rushed to see Munia Azulu.

SPEAKER_20 17:31

We were suspended for not being heard by parliament without the privilege of sitting to suspend us, only the speaker, single-handed, suspended us for three days. Secondly, the hate speech is only applicable to the members in opposition. When the Secretary General of the UPND calls an archbishop of Lusaka a Lucifer is not hate speech. When a minister of education calls the people of Luapula Province as suffering from poverty of the mind is not hate speech. When I say I'm more intelligent than him, it's hate speech.

SPEAKER_18 18:08

When freedom of speech has to kill you so that we slaughter you. Thank you so much. It's really we are ending with shock that a former president in the name of Weddiga Chagwaru, who terribly failed to manage the order and the welfare of this country, is busy manipulating himself to have issues of thinking he can come back to this country. Zambians are not docile. Zambians will never, never, never be taken back to areas where they cannot access freedom in the market. Zambians will not be taken back to a opportunity whereby even just boarding a bus wearing any party t-shirt was a crime. Zambians will not be taken back where meal allowances at the University of Zambia was scrapped off. Zambians will not be taken back where even just shaking a hand with someone who belongs to another political party was a crime. Lungu must watch his steps. Yes. He must watch his steps. I think Manusaka province and other provinces, you've tolerated that idiots for so wrong. Bring that man to Northwest and where we practice his circumcision so that we take him into circumcision. We take him into circumcision. We are not here to start people, the civil servants, we are not working. Because under the civil service, there was a serious division. Ethnicity was just the code of the day, promotion was just mounted on because you belong to a certain political pattern of ethnicity. Is that what Rungu thinks he can take us back to? We circumcise him.

unknown 19:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_18 19:47

We are pilling to government. If there is opportunity for Rungu to come to Northwestern, please do it quick. Bring him here. Bring him here. So that we teach him a reason and you remember the time his mother cried when giving birth to him. We cannot be doing things like he cry babies in a country. Who's Rungu? Who does he think he is? Does he want Zambia? Does he want Zambia? Please, we ask Mr. Rungu to consider himself as a statesman or face proper circumcision that he has never witnessed before. He will see us. And to the youths in Rusaka, we are appealing to you, colleagues. Wake up. Wake up. If you don't have money, power there, tell us we come. As a province, we are here very much ready to coordinate and bring the news land back. So that we teach that third generation. You cannot belong to a party of a behavior and is busy calling himself as a serpent. You can be a serpent, but there are egos in this country. We are able to grab you off from the ground and take you in the high sky. We fight from there. Rungu, rungu, rungu, wherever you are, as you are watching this, this is Kokelamosis. I understand very well where you want to go. If you want to die from the hands of President Aganda Ishirema, please spare Aginder Ishirema not to kill you. Allow us to kill you.

SPEAKER_05 21:17

The uh UPND members, like the ones you cited in the video, that have committed more of speech offenses, hatred, and tribal talk, and they've never been prosecuted. You were prosecuted and sent to prison. But let's go back to where you said the day the judge, magistrate, put his gravel down and sent you to prison, you said they took you to a lion's den because persecution followed you in narrate a story for us.

SPEAKER_20 22:00

Permit me to mention that what I've gone through is not something that I would wish for anyone to go through. Let me also mention that I cannot blame friends, relatives, and brothers like yourself for having left the country. All right. We live in a situation where I can blame the previous government, the French government. They did one thing good by saying it's no longer prison. They called it Zambia Correctional Service. When they migrated from prisons to corrections, they did not change the human resource to administer that correction because they are preparing people to be integrated back into society. So you've got the majority of the officers managing the correctional service, but with the mindset of prisons. So they still torture inmates, unfortunately. What the PF should have done when they were amending the law as regards to prisons, they should have gotten rid of all those that were employed under prisons and bring in a new breed that understands corrections to integrate people back into society. For a simple reason, you cannot have people leave prison with anger and then expect them not to cause problems. We have a crisis. Yes, the law was changed to corrections, but were the human beings changed? The answer is no. On that one, I blame the PF because the moment they amended the law, they call it number 37 of 2021. They should have also gotten rid of all the odd folks that were accustomed to torturing inmates. So what is happening now is you are incarcerated. The first day is very interesting. So each bunker bed has two, two, two underneath, and then there is nowhere to step on because the whole place is uh a sleeping space, and then you've got uh what uh they call an incubator. When you are sleeping under the incubator, it means the the ground capitals are punishing you, so sleeping under an incubator or the bunker bed is is normal, and then there is no bed space. I was privileged to be in a cell of 107 people in cell nine at Chimbo Kahila Ambassador with one toilet but no shower. They lock you up at 16 hours and they can only open you at 6 o'clock the next morning. Look at the numbers, no shower, no space to walk on if you want to use the bathroom, which is a toilet, because there's no bathroom, you can't bathroom the cell, and then the ceiling of the roof is concrete, so you sweat, and then uh when they open for you in the morning, that's a time you pray, sing the national anthem, you you've got the open uh bathrooms where you can bath from. This is painful, ambassador. I must mention, knowing very well that uh someone may challenge to say bring evidence, but you cannot build evidence in an environment that is so closed up. People go to use the bathroom, defeat bath, and then female correction officers are walking around you to see your naked hood every morning. A woman that's not your wife, not your girlfriend, just to come and walk to see your naked hood. Every morning, if you don't want them to see your naked hood, you decide not to bath at six o'clock so that you bath after nine when women have already seen your nakedness, and then you ask a question: how is this correction? You are being tortured mentally. On one hand, people are saying it's correction, but because of having fellow politicians in different uh locations, others are in Mwebeshi, others are in Kawe. I was informed that look, it's better you request for a transfer to leave Lusaka Central and go to Mwebeshi. I made that request not once, not twice, but the officer in charge, Lusaka Central, was always quite a diplomat. Kept on telling me, no, we'll inform you when you'll be transferred. So having had the privilege of working with uh Honorable Jack Muimbu, I personally reached out and said, Look, I love to read. I can't read in such a congested environment. Help me be transferred to a facility that has enough space for me to read books and have no problems being in prison. So that request was granted. I was moved from Osaka Central Correctional Facility, which they call Osaka Central, to Mwembeshi. Remand. I moved to Mwembeshi, ambassador. It's like a boarding school. You don't sleep, two of you on a bunker bed, no one sleeps on the phone. But then they bring an officer in charge whose intention is purely to torture inmates. I'm waking up to a rude shock that people have come to search the cells. I said, I don't think I've got anything harmful on me that to put me in problems with the authorities. Little did I know that he had set up a trap because at some point he was very close to my family. No problems. Then suddenly when my family stayed away from him, problems started. How can me having change from the tax shop be an offense? Two, you have got 54 cells. Each cell has a television set and people pay DSTV. It's not prisons or government that pays for our DSTV or go TV or tops as you call it. We pay for ourselves. How is that a problem? Before I knew it, he creates a story that I had a cell phone, which I never had. He never allowed me to have access to my legal team, such that uh the constitution of calling of 18th September of 2025 had me removed from the cause list because I couldn't communicate with lawyers, and then he goes further to create that fabrication that I'm a troublemaker, I'm inciting inmates to raise against the administration. How can a simple me incarcerated raise inmates to raise against the administration? Then I realized to say I will not die a cheap death, I'm going to put up a fight. I found means and ways to communicate with my legal team, and that's how we sued Zambia Correctional Service. In Wembeshi, I was privileged. Ambassador, if whoever will come and say I have told you a lie, we should put up one challenge. Can we move into these correctional facilities and host a public court for inmates to testify? How possible is it that we that are locked up have no access to buying a cell phone? We have no access to buying marijuana. How possible is it that because I came to this drug called Mahatani, or is it Hartal? It's a pill. Officers in prison, but it is the most sought-after drug in prison. So who brings that drug in prison? Okay, it can only be officers. Who brings Marijuana in prison? It can only be correction officers because we don't go out. We have no access to anybody. Visitors come, the search. Then you come and say he had a cell phone. If truly I had a cell phone, that cell phone for me. It takes you to cartels that are in prison. Uh, the current setup of our correctional services are such that if the officer in charge has five same officers working, reporting to him, loyal to him, they bring you a cell phone, even if you are safe. They bring you manjuana, 10 kilograms, you sell within prison, you are safe. Mahatan, you are safe. But I was never caught with any of the three. I was penalized. I took time to read the act. The act talks of minor offenses and major offenses. Major offenses, sodomy, uh drug dealing, which they should take you to court and be persecuted for. But I was accused of having used a cell phone, which until to date I never had. So I realized to say it's a season where people create lies and believe those lines. Yes, he was corrupt. But where do you go and report such corruption to say, hey, if you check his transactions, you confirm that he was receiving money from this number and this number. We are living in a society where you, who is a complainant, is a victim. Then they transferred me to Mkoveko at 04, my fridge with my food, my TV. I don't even know if they ate the food or they sold uh enough food for my upkeep. Uh, I don't know when the fridge or he sold it because one thing I realized is that correctional officers are amongst the most uh the least sorry uh paid people. 90% of them survive on inmates that have got no sense of shame. When one of them dies, they will even fundrise from you inmates. Now, how do you fundrise money from inmates who do not work? Ambassador, I was transported to Kawe where the grand total of inmates before I left was 1409, where 90% of the inmates are serving life sentencing matters. Yes, mkobeko is bad. But did they need to take me there? As if I killed somebody, I cut short somebody's life. Yes, mkobeko has its own problems, but I do not wish anyone to be taken to that place. Yes, there are some people that deserve to be there. They decided to go to all these prisons, and the West Part is a night before my discharge, I was transferred from Koveko to Media, where I was given 150 quachas transport money to come back to Osaka. Are we going to treat human beings in this fashion? I don't blame you and many others that chose the route you took. It's not a waste. Prison life is more expensive than being out, it is painful. You need to have a strong family, and then you need to have genuine friends. Ambassador, people should learn to say yes, he errored. Before the facts, he errored, but we can't do this. This is inhumane. It is sad that I'm speaking and confirming that I've been to amongst the worst places under the face of the sun. But those who took me to these places, can they survive what I went through? 90% of them will commit suicide. I've come to know of riots that took place in prison in 2013. I've come to know that calling a minister is a crime when you're in prison. I've come to know officers that hosted the current president when he was in prison and are still there and are saying, you politicians, this is a face, even these ones who are serving, who have brought you here, will find us, who look after them. How do you think like that? Honestly, you what gave me comfort in my prison life ambassador, I'll tell you, was when I was given um the Long Walk to Freedom book by Nelson Mandela. That book on page 493, Mandela explains prison ordeal. He says, I detested corruption while so I was in prison. But I always needed to receive a newspaper. But for the prison warders to give me that paper, I had no option but to bribe. Their poverty was our opportunity as prisoners. He was with Ahmad Katraj and others. So then I realized I've got to know what is happening outside prison. I need to know what the manual member has written, I need to know what chair the voice of Zambia has written, I need to know what Linda Banks has written, I need to know what Zambian whistleblower has posted, Zambian watchdog. What do I do? Compromise the situation. So, Ambassador, I must confirm and mention that you among us many of your new followers was as a result of our incarceration because we read everything you you posted. Uh I think the last I read was what uh the Zambian celebrated academician Sishua Sishua wrote. He mentioned the four things that might happen this year. We read them whilst in prison. So we were not behind with information based on what Nelson Mandela said that you have no option but to bribe somebody so that you're well informed.

SPEAKER_05 42:01

Wow, thank you very much, dear viewers. Um, if you are watching us, we are hosting on this youth day, Honorable Munia Zulu Lumezi MP, who was incarcerated for what is now clearly just mayor speech offenses, offenses that should not exist on our statute. If I offend you, I speak ill of you, what I'm supposed what you are supposed to do is to sue me in a civil court. But in Zambia, speech offenses are criminal. And it's a state that takes you and then criminalizes. There's no fine there, you know, like in the case of Honorable Mniyazulu, you saw. Honorable Mniyazulu, your ordeal in prison, the harassment and humiliation was so bad that you decided to take a court action against the prison authorities, the correction facility uh authorities. Just briefly speak to that. And what compelled you, because you know, as soon as you took that action, many feared for your life that the the mistreatment will become worse because people have to protect themselves. You know, I know this because I was beaten, my tooth was knocked out, they nearly broke my neck. But they brought a charge that had assaulted the police officer to hide the crimes they had done against me. So we also feared for you when you took that action. What compelled you to take that action against prison authorities for the mistreatment that they were subjecting you to? And just explain why, in such a short period, were you moved to over three, four prisons?

SPEAKER_20 43:52

Uh look, ambassador, it's very simple. You decide to kill me. And what should I do? Should I keep quiet? I speak out. Either way, I speak out, you kill me. I go to court, you kill me. So I said, okay, at least let me leave the record straight because I was very certain that the guys really wanted me dead. So I didn't want to die a death where no one will document. The intention was there. Let him go six feet. But then on my side, I said, look, I'm in an environment where you cannot build evidence. And it will take me a lot of courage to instruct lawyers to take this route, it will cost me finances here and there. But someone should know what happened. Because I'm a son of history ambassador. So that's what made me go to court. Whether the court process is slow, the justice are slow, I'll not comment on that. The matter is still active before court. Maybe now that I'm out, it will help us uh expose a lot of these ugly ills, but the intention was that people should know. In case I die, also I mean someone will know to say no, no, no, no, but he said it. I didn't want to die a silent death. Am I scared of death? No. Am I prepared for death? Yes. But am I prepared to die cheap being assassinated because I'm incarcerated? No. The judgment had nowhere where it said he should be killed in prison. Nowhere in that judgment did it say that they should kill me in prison. In there, the judgment said hard labor. And that hard labor, whether it's free labor or not, is something that we are asking the court because uh we've instructed lawyers to go to court. There is no free hard labor. That of the charge gets paid under correctional service for all the works done by inmates. But why are inmates not being paid? Their salaries. You are convicted with hard labor, but you are never paid for your hard labor. We need the law to be harmonized, to say, yes, your hard labor is free hard labor. But where I stand and where I sit, it is free hard labor. But you see officer in charge using inmates to build their personal properties for their personal benefit, and then inmates are given 150 quachas transport money to go back to their homes. I was given 150 quacha to move from Kawe to Lusaka. You go to Mwembeshi and investigate the biggest landlords, correction officers. Where are they getting that money to build lodges? Where are they getting that money to build shopping malls? Okay. Maybe shopping malls is linked to the urban guys in Lusaka, Central, Mudola, Kitwe. Mda Dada shopping mall, that money is free labor. That labor that inmates provide is not even being provided for for the convicting magistrates, not being provided for for judges, not provided for for the prosecutors. But officer in charge and correction officers will tell you they have and it's inmates building for them, free labor, yet it is hard labor. So I pose fundamental questions. Yes, I'm convicted for hard labor. I go and grow a garden for an officer in charge, his house, that he uses to feed his family, or he eats from that garden. Where then does that hard labor provided to the state go to? These are very important questions. But unfortunately, we are living in moments where I'm informed that asking such questions is also a crime. But it is good that people should know why I should explain having a firm to anti-corruption commission proceeds of crime with a better salary than an officer in charge or atheist who cannot afford to buy a tire of his vehicle, but he should have more real estate than me because he uses inmates. When you, Ambassador, today decided to build, let's uh just for the purposes of example, Ambassador. You want to build a boarding school, you can go to Zambia Correctional Facility, they'll tell you each inmate you are paying 30 quarter. Then they'll give you 100 inmates. 100 times 30 quarter is 3,000 quadra. You pay and they give you a receipt. Inmates will be brought to your so plot, they will work per day, but they go back and they're never paid. So who gets that money?

SPEAKER_30 50:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_20 50:36

There is more argue.

SPEAKER_05 50:38

Fundamental question, dear viewers, as you are listening, we are hosting Honorable Munia Zulu, fresh from prison, is just walked to freedom. Honorable Munia Zulu, the correction service may argue that they actually treated you well, they may argue that um they actually even allowed, like you've stated, a TV, a fridge, and um therefore you were treated well. And when you were discharged, they gave you 150 quacha. We know they are poorly funded, but they would say they gave you 150 quach. What do you say to that? Then the rider question would be: because you were harassed by government, because you know, government was determined to take the seat away and to punish you, to silence you, did you connect the dots in any way? Did you feel the humiliation and harassment that you were undergoing in prison, which you even took a civil action against the authorities? Did you link it to the government of President Daka Indechirema? Did you feel you were treated as an enemy of the state because you had offended the president and these big powerful ministers? Did you link the two?

SPEAKER_20 51:47

Uh Ambassador, I came to learn of one thing. These civil servants will create a narrative to win favors from the powers that be. My harassment, I highly doubt that had the blessings of the system. I'm convinced that the officers behaved in the way they behaved purely to win favors. But remember, in all these cities, you've got the UPND cards and the opposition cadres. All right. Ambassador, there's something very funny that I'll mention to you, and I hope it will attract attention of the city. In Wembeshi, when the facility has not provided millimu to inmates, and then inmates are only surviving on uh sample. What do you call sample?

SPEAKER_05 52:59

Sample is what yeah, sample, yeah.

SPEAKER_20 53:02

Sample, uh they don't have millimiew, meaning their main food will be sample and uh mixing it with this um kyola, whatever they call it nowadays. Then you see the whole prison playing loud music of Don Chovela, all right? They are informing the the authorities that they're not happy with what's happening, and they'll play opposition music. Opposition music, yeah, that's very famous in Mwembechi. You just see I go this angle and don't chove. This angle don't chove. What's happening? Ah, Ukulebo nga wachpasa sample. So it triggers the administration to quickly bring in a million so that inmates can have. But mwembeshi, whenever there is no mili meal, the signal is don't chuva. Because inmates are also registered voters. Oh yes, oh yes, the registered voters to vote from within uh the facilities, so they just say, ah no, this is no position. It's very interesting, ambassador, but the faith and hope that these inmates have Chimbokaila, Mwembeshi, Mukoveko, and Midiam is the same. Remember that on Africa Freedom Day, ordinarily it's been uh a practice in Zambia, there is what you call presidential pardon. On Independence Day, there is a presidential pardon and so even those inmates that have been sentenced to life imprisonment who packed their belongings a night before Africa Freedom Day, as you say, my wenig of mumba president was an chosen. So Africa Freedom Day comes, there is no backdoor. Again, they say government in your fate.

SPEAKER_05 55:32

Honorable Munia, you've you've raised a very fundamental issue, the parole system in Zambia, where the president exercises you know his discretion and leniency, and there's usually full discharge or you know, or partial pardon, or sometimes um sentences are reduced, especially those that have huge youth sentences, like of course now we no longer have uh death sentences, but life sentences maybe they are reduced to 40 years or to 20 years, or many people are released. I'm glad you've highlighted that issue that where every prisoner thinks that is eligible for parole and they even pack, you know, building trust that will be released. Is this process done fairly? Although do you also think that this is subjected to uh to unfair processes like corruption and favoritism? Uh, we understand sometimes that you know UPND cutters have been released on um presidential pardon. Is it done fairly, the parole system in Zambia?

SPEAKER_20 56:42

Ambassador, our parole system is not fair. Number one, let me take you to do you remember that there was a time when our current Republican president mentioned at State House on a press briefing that Mozambique has helped extradite a dangerous criminal. He was anything in Mozambique.

SPEAKER_05 57:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_20 57:11

Welluzani Banda. All of us were shocked. For me personally, I thought it was Kaisazuri. Weluzani was discharged on presidential patron in 2021. But they took him back to prison.

SPEAKER_05 57:31

Despite President Edgar Lungu uh exercising his presidential button and giving him full pardon.

SPEAKER_20 57:40

Yes, he's back in Mkoveko, saving a 10-year sentence. They were extradited him from Mozambique.

SPEAKER_05 57:49

Wow, that's a very big announcement you've just made. Because I think, like you've stated, Waluzan was released together with other prisoners. You know, um, so it would be surprising that uh when he sought refugee in Mozambique, he was extradited and has not been tried, but the old sentence has been reinstated. That's a matter I think lawyers and others should pursue. But continue, I just just caught my moment that that's a major thing, especially that government did not release the details of this so-called dangerous person that they had uh extradited from Mozambique.

SPEAKER_20 58:26

Ambassador, the presidential pardon of 2021 had Mati Mohan, Chela Tukut, uh the former member of parliament for Chilanga and Weluzani. Keith Mukata. But Weluzani was brought back and he's in prison. Illegal. That's what I've had. Uh Ambassador of being in prison with uh some Nigerian inmates that were convicted for financial crimes by the lower courts and abandoned their appeal processes and pardoned on Independence Day. Zambians not pardoned, but a Nigerian is pardoned and is out of the country. And then you ask yourself a fundamental question: was pardon meant for Zambians or for non-Zambians? And the lawyer represents Nigerian, is one of the prominent personalities in this country, but because we are told when you speak too much, they are ambassador. That parosystem is fake, it's a facade. Because if there's an inmate who I tried for that was myself, I saved the sentence. If I called an offense within correctional facility, I should have been given 30 days, but I was given 90 days, and in a security maximum facility. Ambassador, yes, some of you and many others called us a prisoner. I agree we were political prisoners. It was more expensive for us to survive than other inmates. For me to make a phone call that will cost me five quacha, I needed to spend 200 quacha. For other inmates, they would spend less than 20 quacha. Now, what gave me comfort? I look at Honorable Ronald Komachito Tela. Ronald Kaumachito is a Christian. He goes to SDA. He was convicted with two young biological brothers, an SDA. The head of the fountain of justice of the Republic of Zambia is SDA. That's a fountain of justice, SDA. Who am I? Not to go through what I went through. If Chotela, who is an SDA, is going through with his two biological brothers. In Max Mount, the only disabled member of parliament that we had, lost the wife, no postmortem report, his father couldn't attend the burial of his father. And then who am I? Who is a Sunni Muslim? That gave me comfort. Because even when the world had Adolf Hitler, when Adolf Hitler went for six million Jews, the world called it the Holocaust. And they were quiet. When Adolf Hitler went for the Austrians, the world was quiet. Not until when Adolf Hitler went first. Then people reacted. So now coming to my situation, I said, look, I'm the first Muslim to go through this challenge. So it's normal for the Muslims to be quiet. But my fear is they'll go for the Catholics. And then they'll go for their traditional leadership. Ambassador, that gave me comfort. If Chitotela and his two young brothers were not in prison, if Chilangwa was not going through what he's going through and was in prison, I was going to break down. But just the fact that there is this family in prison and abreating. His seat is grabbed. He's strong. Who am I?

SPEAKER_30 1:04:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_20 1:04:06

That gave me strength.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:08

Indeed, indeed. Words, strong words. We've spoken about the case of uh Honorable Chitotella and Honorable Nixon Chilangwa, uh, the the former council chairperson and the brothers for honor that that case needs to be looked at. We looked at it very extensively, especially that a magistrate should have uh you know recused himself in light of the strong allegations that were leveled against him and he was reported to the JCC, but nothing was done. It it it's it's a matter that brings sadness to many people, including your case. Before I invite callers, I just have two questions. Remission. We're all excited that you're supposed to be released three, four months ago. I remember even speaking to Honorable Jinch Singer, you know, one of your dear brothers, the whole country knows you, you know. You'll be with you'll be with Jinch Sengha. You'll be, you know, the you were a kind of a masketeer, the four of you, you know, with Emmanuel JJ Banda. So when you were about to be released, I kept on calling Honorable Jinch Singer because I knew she was checking up on you. And the day I called, she literally had just broken down and she was crying. She said they have actually even moved him away. Instead of being released, he's been moved from, you know, uh Lusaka Central Prison. Now to Maximum in Carvo, she she was so broken. I felt very bad. I was also broken. But when we pushed this matter, the authorities then brought up that issue that remission only applies where one third of your sentence is removed from your actual sentence. Um, you are only eligible to that if you had good behavior. I think that's where they even brought in the First charges of the cell phone. Is that an issue? And then when you answer that question, have we last seen Munia Zulu politically? So answer those two issues for me.

SPEAKER_20 1:06:11

Uh, Ambassador, I must mention to you that remission is not an issue that uh is a favor, it's statute law. The drafters of the law knew why they said an officer in charge can only give you up to 30 days maximum. So it's not it's statute law, it's under article 76 of number 21, uh number 37 of 2021. So I don't even understand why we people want to debate this matter. What happened to me after having saved my sentence was a lawful detention. That's simple. Remission is statute law, it's not a privilege of the officer in charge, it's in black and white, and that's why we're arguing before the high court. I hope precedence will be set. Of course, I will not benefit from it, but those that are coming after me could benefit when the law is pronounced. And then coming to your fundamental question that politically is this the end of MZ. The journey has just started. Ambassador, I've had a rare privilege of living under the face of the sun. Uh I buried my grandfather last year, this time, who was my mentor, advisor. Last source of comfort was my grandfather, because my grandfather, even at age 99, he would pick up my core and advice. His advice was can you be a decision maker? And I make decisions. Yes, going to Lumezi and recontesting that seat is easy. Winning it is easier than winning it from anywhere else, but there are calls from Lusaka, and because of the distances, I had more visitors visiting me in prison from Lusaka, and then I've come to realize that there are some people that are serving the interest of the people of Lusaka to pursue personal goals using their privileged positions to fix people. We are not given privileged positions to fix or sort out people, we are given privileged positions to help people. So now I made a decision. Yes, I'll go to in the next few days to greet the people, thank the people, and inform them officially of my decision that I've answered the call from the people of Lusaka Central. Lusaka Central is where I grew up from. Where you people go to as Matevetto, it was our playground. Whether someone has another privilege of being called a minister, it is not his home. Whether he has a privilege of commanding state apparatus to harass people, it is not his home. I am only responding to the call people of Lusaka Central. What I have also decided, Ambassador, taking advantage of your platform is not to announce to say which vehicle, because we have a problem as a country, and that problem can only be addressed by ourselves. There are people that worked in the cabinet of ECL, and they think that if this one takes it, he will ignore them. It's pettiness. You do not share buffalo meat before you kill the buffalo. So my decision, ambassador, is I'm working with two brothers, uh Bran Mundwile and Makebezuno. These two brothers are working with them. And then I'll announce the vehicle I shall use. There will be no any other vehicle I shall use that does not favor these two brothers. I cannot take sides.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:34

In fact, let me use the this opportunity to speak to this issue before I open four lines. Um you were in prison. You met our colleagues that are in prison. We are calling them political prisoners. Tatehouse claims they are not political prisoners in Zambia, but many people find, because of the unfair processes, that these are political prisoners. They have hope that the opposition will win this election, they have hope that the opposition will work together. So if you see, for example, the division in the PF alone, like you are saying, Makebizulu on one side, Given Rinder on the other, and maybe Bran Munuwili and others, you have political parties that personally have tried to bring together on this platform. I've had the rare opportunity to interview over 25 presidential candidates. And I made one question to them. Can you commit that you work together with other colleagues? And can you commit that if it is not you, you support the other? Because to lead, you should be able to accept that you can be led. But my work of six months, my work of uh hard work, like many Zambians who, many stakeholders that have tried to put the opposition together, somehow we feel that our work were futile was futile. Because our colleagues in the opposition are bent and determined to go their way. We might have an avalanche of presidential candidates. I am counting maybe up to 13 candidates who put, uh we'll see when the process opens just in the next 30 days. Because in the next 30 days, each presidential candidate has to get 1,000 people, 100 from each province, and surrender them to ECZ. It will give us an indication of how many presidential candidates will come from the opposition. What do you maybe the core is more desperate, maybe if it came from people like you and me, who are in these very dire circumstances where we want the opposition to unite. What are your feelings about opposition and lack of unity among us themselves?

SPEAKER_20 1:13:50

Ambassador, I'm glad that you mentioned you started by interviewing 25, which partially outblessed them because you want to create monsters where there are no monsters. If the waste happened and are incarcerated, inmates will roast them alive. Some of us survived because inmates were our friends, they were the first line of defense. Don't think that inmates are not informed of what is happening. They've got relatives who are visitors, they deliver messages every day, they are complaining every day. So, one thing I'm that whether we have 13 candidates, the Zambian people will emerge victorious. I know it happened in Malawi, yes. I don't want to be associated to individuals. I want to associate myself to victory of the Zambian people, and the Zambian people will eventually emerge victorious. Yes, you may try to propagate, to image build all of us, including myself. But is it really necessary? Can people understand the law of the season? If it's your time, it is your time. If it's not your time, it's mine. It doesn't mean that if I cannot have a buffalo offers, then I've not partaken in that buffalo meet. Let's kill the buffalo. Are we sure that the church has failed to unite our brothers? Are we sure that the traditional leadership has failed to unite our brothers? The answer is no. It is this perception we are creating on people that should ordinarily not even be given a platform. Because we're in a direct situation, in a in a dire situation, Ambassador, we must accept. Not everyone can be president. We've seen even today, youth today. I've been following what's happening throughout the country. One thing that I know for a fact is Zambians have decided who they don't want. So why should we confuse them more by saying no? We have 25 candidates, 13 candidates. Let's unite the two front runners, and then we move in as a united front.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:46

Do you have the two front runners?

SPEAKER_20 1:17:52

Are you the ambassador?

SPEAKER_05 1:17:54

Yes, do you have the two front runners? Oh is somehow? Okay, he's back. I'm saying, do you have the two front runners?

SPEAKER_20 1:18:09

For me, uh, from where I sit, it's Brian and Mackey.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:14

Ah, okay, wonderful. Wonderful. So we we we we dear viewers, it's time for you to call and let me hear from you. The lines are open. We are hosting just a minute, honorable Munia Zulu, just a minute. So we are hosting Honorable Munia Zulu. Uh, he has just walked from Freedom, and this is his first major um interview that he's giving. Um, to your knowledge, Honorable Um Munia Zulu, we conducted a poll. Uh, I think one of the most credible polls I have seen was on this platform on EMV. We had 800,000 views, we had 60,000 votes, we had 3,000 calls, and we had 42,000 separate votes to the 60,000 votes. And I think I've not seen such a large sample size. Uh out of the 25 people had picked the top uh seven who I feel will be among the front runners, and among them was John Sangwan, Fred Membe, KBF, you know, um Brian Munduvile, uh Given Lovinda, uh Hari Kalaba um and Makebizulu. And in the subsequent races, the four uh became top the five uh Makebizulu, Hari Kalaba, uh Brian Munduvile, and uh uh Honorable Fred Membe. And the three top ones shared the votes when we included President Akainde Echilema. He won the Facebook poll, uh Makebizulu won the online poll, and Ari Kalaba won the phone line polls uh so somehow we have what we feel from the perspective of this platform that we somehow have among the top seven the top three that are doing very, very well. Let me open, but but before I open the phone lines, I saw you agitating. You wish to say some things quickly before the lines are buzzing, people want to ask you questions. So let me let me hear from you quickly.

SPEAKER_20 1:20:21

Um, Ambassador, um, I made reference to Adolf Hitler's style of leadership and how he was brought down. In a similar vein, don't forget that uh ECL was propelled as a result of the members of parliament. When the Central Committee decided otherwise, MPs gave a direction. So we should not be too quick to depart from history. Yes, times have changed, but for me, I think let's unite MZ and BM for the greater good country so that you can come back home. JJ Banda can come back home, even Chili Fiatali should come back home.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:18

Yeah, it's that simple. So, true, true. I agree with you. Many people are saying the golden ticket is Ari Kalaba and Makebizulu, or Bran Munduville and Makebizulu. Make Zulu seems to be at the center of this golden ticket for various factors. But let's hear from our people, Honorable um Munia Zulu. Alo caller, we have the first caller. Tell us your name and where you're calling us from, and be brief. There are so many people that wish to ask Honorable Munia Zulu some questions.

unknown 1:21:48

Thank you very much, Ambassador Mwamba.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:50

Senior line, uh, just hold on a increase volume just a minute. Yeah, okay. Yeah, proceed.

SPEAKER_23 1:21:57

Okay, Honorable Munia Zulu, welcome back. We thank you that we have you on board and we thank you for what you are doing and what you've said. First and foremost, I like your honesty. Sometimes let's not sugarcoat things when we know what is waiting. For me, Honorable Munia Zulu, my encouragement to you and everyone that is going to participate is we need a united voice, and we need to pick one person because, like you said, the people of Zambia already have chosen and they don't want this government. It's up to us now to put someone up front. And I like the way you said let's not look court things and try to say oh you are the popular phone. So, my advice to you um as you're going to make that decision who you are going to support, let's preach about having a united front. Ambassador Mwamba, thank you very much. We love you and continue doing the good job that you do. Thank you. God bless Zambia.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:00

Thank you. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from, and give us your question for Honorable Honorable Munia Zulu. Is also MZ.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:09

Good evening, good evening, Ambassador.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:12

Good evening.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:12

I will remain anonymous.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:14

Yes, Anonymous.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:15

I just want to welcome Honorable Munia Zulu. MZ. I just want to tell him to say we want to hear praying for him. Um his story is uh very, very emotional, but um, all we can say is um what is in control? Go for me to my brother. Um we are waiting for you, you have my support, but it's also encouraging to see the brother coming to end those brother, and um all we are asking for is unity, um you have my support. Thank you so much for staying strong. Um, your story is I can tell you is so so emotional. Um we can do is to pray for you, pray for your family, may you continue being strong. Thank you so much, honorable uh, for for this platform and for the opportunity that you are giving to the Zambian people. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:18

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:27

Um, you wouldn't get the source.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:17

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Hello, Paula, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and give us your contribution or question for for uh honorable money zulu.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:56

Sorry for that from Zambia. Umakukamba po mungamanumakampi na kuti mamantwa viri mama, ya mini ifuna kuti makazike pansi ni tione mamini tinga chiki kuti indena chintuchimozi. Zo na o befor imumkalipo kuela ki na kamba po kumbu kuti imwuman twampizan mani in daniku balsi a minimana nabana si ya ba e si mini tosalyansi. Tinakambapu takambampo takambapu bakazaska pali no time mumanji kuti zo na pumanji siri po piefu inagwa inafa. So tsukani pigisam PFu. Matimu na ku tosalyansi in twenty si twenty thirty one. Pf Izakabura yeka, opanda kuikong, izakabura yeka, ngati mumuita banji, mutatushan kondo.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:53

Thank you very much. Halo colo, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and give us your contributions quickly.

unknown 1:29:02

Good evening, manuamba.

SPEAKER_13 1:29:03

We are talking to William Zimba from Mundal.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:06

Mr. Zimba, make your contributions quickly so that we can have Honorable Munia Zulu to answer the questions.

SPEAKER_13 1:29:13

Yeah, Honorable Munia Zulu, we need you back in Parliament. We don't want cowards in parliament. We don't want people who have to put food on the table in parliament. If it means you have to go and turn in the copper belt, go and start. If it's in Osaka, turn in Lusaka. If it's in South, then you go and start. We want people like you in Parliament.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:36

Thank you very much. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and quickly make your contributions.

SPEAKER_14 1:29:44

Yeah, my name's uh Lungu Arik. I'm calling from within Lusaka.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:51

Make your contributions quickly.

SPEAKER_14 1:29:54

Thank you so much. Uh, I want to make mention to Honorable Munia Zuru to say in Nyanja there is a language that you don't forget where you are coming from, and you don't forget people that have been around with you when the times were hard. I want to remind Comrade Munia Zuru to say, as far as he is doing everything that he has to do, he shouldn't forget to say there were people that were following him, even in prison, going to see him. And one of those people is President Harikala. It is very wrong for Comrade Munia Ruzuru to come on air and rubbish everything. I think it's very important to recognize President Harikala in whatever he was doing.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:42

I think you probably misunderstood him. You've probably misunderstood him, but anyway, thank you very much for that call. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you are calling us from. Hello, good evening. Good evening.

SPEAKER_25 1:30:56

Yes, I'm de calling from Chasefu district.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:59

Yes, my dear brother from Chasefu.

SPEAKER_25 1:31:03

I'm very happy to see you on the video. My apology. And he all you all and he I think he has made a good submission. Even here where I am. And he empty. That's my submission. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:25

Thank you very much. Allo Cola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and give us your contribution before we allow Honorable Munia Zulu to answer some of the questions.

SPEAKER_10 1:31:36

Okay. This is the Han Chega. I'm calling you from Mazabuga. Greetings to Honorable Munia Zulu there. I have a question for him. I followed him when he said uh the correct etiquette according to him is the Honorable Brian Mundovir. I have a question. When he was behind bus, Mr. Hari Kalaba, President Hari Kalaba of Citizen First, went there to see him. What wrong has President Hari Kalaba done that today Mr. Munia Zoro can say Mr. Hari Kalaba is bad compared to Mr. Mundovere, whom I think according to me, I never saw Mr. Mundovere going there. If he went there, maybe I never just followed. But I want to differentiate this. I want to know the what wrong President Harikalaba has done. For him, by Mr. Zuru.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:33

Thank you. Thank you. Hello, colour. Please tell us your name and your last caller in this series, so that we can go back to Honorable Munia Azulu.

SPEAKER_34 1:32:43

Good evening, Ambassador Mamba.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:44

Good evening.

SPEAKER_34 1:32:47

Good evening, Honorable Munia Azul.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:49

Yes, we can hear you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_34 1:32:52

Yeah. Mr. Mamba, I just want to hear something.

unknown 1:32:56

We appreciate welcome you, Mr. Mr. Zulu.

SPEAKER_33 1:33:01

And we feel we feel for you for everything which you you went through during the time in the in jail. That was very bad. But I just want to comment on where you said like uh uh the great ticket we can have for as the opposition is uh uh and the uh let's be realistic. These guys they do not have like a political part which is stable, which we can which we can lie to as citizens, especially as people in opposition. The only person who's got the political part which is stable, which we can use and learn behind that person is President Jaricaraba. Why are we trying to like to to overshadow who's got everything in place? And so my my my words my appeal to everyone, even you honorable, let's learn behind Jari Karaba.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:03

Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Let me go back to Honorable Harry, uh, Honorable Munia Zulu. I can see callers uh uh wanting, in your opinion, to include other leaders, honorable Munia Zulu. Um, let's get back to Honorable Munia Zulu and let's hear what his views uh about the callers. Um you've opened a can of whims by narrowing down the leaders from uh you know a number of 25, uh, seven and now to two leaders. Uh um, and I just read out what uh Paul demonstrated on this point. Please um respond to our viewers that uh are very, very concerned about the direction of our country, and of course, and many have given you commendation for your bravery. I like the caller that said you should stand, whether on the copper belt in southern province or Lusaka or Mezi, you should stand because we want courageous men like you in parliament. One important thing that I want to to mention, are you there? Can you yes, yes, I can see your cutin, but go, we can we have your voice. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_20 1:35:46

Okay, thank you. So one of the callers had uh mentioned Bill 7. I went to court whilst I was in prison challenging Bill Seven. Four constitutional court judges agreed with us, three did not agree with us, and we won that matter. In a normal environment, the government should have gone back to court and asked the constitutional court to vacate that decision. The constitutional court has never vacated their decision in my case, but they went ahead to amend the constitution. There is no record to show that they vacated the decision in my case. What a normal society should have done was to go to court, the court vacates a decision and start the process of amendment. So we are living in very difficult times. Coming to the issue of President Harikalava that is being pronounced that he visited me in prison, ambassador. I have no bad words of your president even when his visitation to prison was not meant for me. Yes, he visited me in Kahwe because the get pass showed that he has come to visit Ronald Kauma Stote, but to single me out that he visited me, I think that is not being sincere and not being honest to ourselves, and then I'm not here to recommend those who visited me in prison because there are more Zambians that visited me in prison than those who didn't visit me. There are more people that visited me from outside the country, but I'm not recommending them for Zambian presidential job, ambassador. You sent me money when I was in prison. Have I recommended you to be president? No, it is the time and the season. I have nothing bad to say about President Hai Kalaba. In fact, if there is one opposition leader who visited me in prison and gave me rice and chicken, is Dr. Fred Lembe. Have I recommended him to be the president? It's the time and the season. Bran Mundubile visited me once in Chimboka. He never visited me in Wendeshi. He never visited me in Kabu. Makebizuru visited me once in Chimboka. And once in Kabu. But it's the season, it's not about me. Ambassador, can we separate my personal wishes to the aspirations of the Zambian people? Zambians are suffering. That's true. No one will take away that fact. Why should it be about me, me, me, so me, I, and myself. The eye does not see itself, it's others that look at our eyes. If there's something in my eye, someone will tell me, clean your eye. So it's not about who visited me in prison. JJ Banda is my brother, but he never visited me in prison. Tasila Rungu is my sister, she never visited me in prison, but they are not my preferred front runners. It's not personal, it's about saving the interest and the aspirations of the government.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:47

Indeed, Honorable, you you do.

SPEAKER_20 1:39:55

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:56

You are politician, you've like you said, you've seen the seasonal terrain, and in your view, you've called on these two people to work together. Let me take another set of five questions for all you callers. I think let's um focus the questions uh around the discourse that we've had today. If we descend to who should honorable uh Munia Azulu recommend the callers for Fred Membe Uko, the callers for John Tangwa will go. No, Honorable Munia Zulu has made his views and you ought to respect them. He wishes that these two brothers should work together, and we should respect that. So let's take a five call.

SPEAKER_20 1:40:40

I'll let you go. I'll tell you, we are closing, I will announce yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:52

Oh, it's the phone is hung hung up again. We we're having challenges with Lusaka internet, but uh um thank you, Honorable Mnias. Let me take another five or so questions, then you come and answer them and we wrap up the broadcast. We are so privileged that you know you had favored us to uh as as the ideal platform to which you can uh uh uh air your views. Let's see what the callers are saying. Arocola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and give us your contribution.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:31

Okay, this is the chanda calling from reading stuff.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:34

Chanda, make your contributions quick so that we can take other calls.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:39

Chanda is from programs to a random yeah. Now send you a member. Now it mumbo private prison. Why you mabati mambo support? No moon to be a mummy for one vote. So mundumataya one at one say, Overlaver the support of Harikalava. So the came up to Amuena or you, only Gabon Bananque, or you, only gave me Nanakui.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:46

You've put it in proper perspective, even even knowing Honorable Hari Kalaba. I don't think he would give or he went to prison for a favor back. No, the way I know Honorable Hari Calawa. He didn't, he doesn't give to have something in return. So the callers, but you know, our callers are fervent, you can't again stop them from airing their views. Um, we don't give to have something in return. I don't think that's what we do. We help because we need to help, not because we want those that we've helped to help us back. So it would be a total misrepresentation of even Honorable Harikalaba if that was tell us a name and where you're coming as from.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:28

My name is Vuta. Good evening, Ambassador.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:31

Vuta, give us your contributions quickly.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:34

Uh welcome back to the society full of challenges, full of trouble, full of trauma. Uh, someone who saw I was watching a video or someone, someone will still encounter the open token to prison because the prison will come out as a problem as a girl and giving us a good one and then you have the person to all members of the opposition to come together because of the person. For you to among the opposition because you are just coming out from the from the from the from the prison when you are putting on your point, things that would not come. I'm opening I'm appealing before you the problem. But I'm appealing before you that please don't get mad. Speak to these, speak to this uh person in the regions to put their egos away and unite for the betterment of the Zambian people.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:00

Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Hello Cola. Please tell us your name and give us your quick contribution.

SPEAKER_19 1:45:08

Okay, uh, my name is Alec Calling from Donna.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:11

Alec, give us your contribution, yes.

SPEAKER_19 1:45:14

Um Mr. Mwamba, I think if you heard uh what uh Makebizuru said regarding uh working together with uh Munduwile, he said let Mundure come back and we're going to work together. Um so the best way, let Mundure join his friends so that these people they they can work together.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:39

Thank you very much. Thank you. I think you thank you so much. Thank you. Hello, colour. Please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and give us your contribution. Yo, to the m tend to make your contribution, my brother.

SPEAKER_21 1:46:00

Okay the warrior sana.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:10

Make your contribution.

SPEAKER_21 1:47:03

So to a papa, one to a bidi. Because today Chula I think to have issued particular today. Today the one is all.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:13

Thank you. Hello, caller. Please tell us your name and quick your contribution before I pick the last caller.

SPEAKER_32 1:47:20

Okay, good evening, Ambassador. My name is Mrs. Anonymous from the land of AI Kingdom. Um, comrade uh Zulu. Uh, we wish to welcome you. Uh, you know, it hasn't been easy for you to be in that prison, and when you shared the story, it was a very sad story to listen to and it takes somebody within a lot of resilience of what you went through. Um, so I just had a quick uh question for him in terms of the issues of uh, I know you said we're not going to talk about it, but he mentioned it, so we might as well refer to it. It's the issue of um uh Brad Mundwile and Maccabi Zulu, and I don't know if he listened to Maccabi Zulu when he was on Crown TV when he was asked, can you go and join your brother? Brad Mundwile, he said on principle, he's working with principle. I don't know how he defines the movement that was done by Brad Mundwile from the PF to the other one in terms of legality. How do you define that? Would you support that as illegal or legal? And why are we not advocating that brand goes back to PF so that he can work with his uh friends? I think for me that is a comment that I want him to reflect on. And the way he came out to say, no, I'm working with my brothers, Brian and uh Mackey, it's like I'm saying then what you want to at the same time. I don't know, maybe yes, the analog may be a bit difficult and uh uh maybe vague in the way I'm trying to compare them. But for me, it's the issue of him trying to look at the two people and really look at the issues of uh integrity, loyalty, and honesty in this whole process with regards to the what the Zambians really want. Yeah, I thank you, Ambassador.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:21

Thank you. The last caller, so I will revert to Honorable Munia Zulu. Hello, caller, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and um make your contribution.

SPEAKER_11 1:49:34

Uh Ambassador Manuel, this is James calling from summer.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:38

Yes, James.

SPEAKER_11 1:49:39

Uh I agree with the uh Honorable Munia Zulu that the two um we and the cabinet work together. But again, our concern is that the the other time uh the most reading on the road uh we can And the the purpose of the vehicle has already been said that it's the FTP. I think every step we know. We have even advertised for our candidates. Now the other campus we are waiting for other quadrators, which we don't know when they're going to finish.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:17

Thank you, thank you. Thank you very much, my dear brother. Thank you. Let me I've I've seen Father Oscar Mansa Pombo from Italy, who has been praying for you, by the way. Yeah, every time he prays, you know, when he's on these blogs, Honorable Munia Zulu, Father Oscar Mwansapombo, you pray for the prayer for the first family for each year. We will pray for you that are in prison, and many times would mention your names. So he's here. I've given him the privilege, although at close, but when I saw his online, especially that he prays for you guys, that he should uh Father Father Oscar. You can proceed with your quick contribution.

SPEAKER_29 1:50:55

Thank you very much, uh Honorable Mamba. Thank you so much. Um uh Honorable Mohia Zulu. We bless God that um finally you are out of prison. Um I'm uh I'm happy uh to have listened to your sad story, but instead of focusing on the bad issues or bad things, I think we would like to focus on the uh the hope that now after this period God is going to enlighten you how you can continue serving the Zambia people. I'm happy uh to hear that in listening to your voice, you don't seem to be a um a sad person, you seem to be a focused person, and um I can agree that you have accepted whatever has happened, and uh you are looking forward to speak, especially to the Zambia people. Uh I have only one question. Um I've not um engaged myself in the parties and politics. The fighting the parties of PF, I've left them to the countries and to the PF members with great, great respect. Uh but um I've I've also been listening to what has been happening, and I can uh I can see that uh Emmanuel uh um uh program give us uh uh the indications there's some people who are looking to these three names uh president um uh the current president, then we have uh uh president making sure, and then we have I think and we have also the fourth one, let me put the fourth one, Harry Kalama as well, was mentioned um um on the uh platform. Now bringing coming back to the PF, because you uh um uh Moni Azuru, I suppose you are still whether you are independent member of parliament, but I suspect, or I suppose you are still a PF member of parliament if that is the case, status for you.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:19

No, it was independent, it was independent MP.

SPEAKER_29 1:53:24

All right, independent MP, yes. Um question for uh um um umuniazzulu. One question. How do you feel to hear that this evening honorable brand mondubile is being covered at Zambian National Broadcasting Services?

unknown 1:53:47

How do you feel?

SPEAKER_29 1:53:48

And what is your take? Thank you so much, Ramba. Thank you, and good.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:53

Thank you, Honorable Munia Zulu. Let me throw this to you. You know the issues of um the issues surrounding candidates remains a very, very hot topic um here. And you see, it was your talent comments, and look at the comments that it has invited. Answer the callers, and then I'll come back with the issue of uh your closing remarks. Your Honorable Munia Zulu.

SPEAKER_20 1:54:27

I uh I love to be as basic in my communication as I can as I can be. Most of the callers are either talking of PF this, which PF, Zambia has gotten to its destination. Its destination is not PF. Zambia is looking for a Joshua. Which vehicle that Joshua uses is not your business, not my business. I recommend to my fellow citizens all the time. Let's look back, let's read what happened in such moments. People are looking for a leader, they're not looking for PF. They know where PF is, they know where FDD is, they know where UNIP is, they know where UPND is, but they're looking for that leader. It's not the PF the Zambians are looking for. They know who has PF. So my recommendation is not to say PF should form government. No, I've not said PF and UPND should work together. I have said Makendi Zulu and Brandon Wila should work together. That's what I've said, so that I'm quoted right. We have had a situation in our country where we have failed, of course, not in context, to bury the former president of the Republic of Zambia. Others have said and gone further to create rumors that he's not dead. We want to see his body, we want to see where he's buried. But if you go back to the Bible, you who believes in the Bible, because I do not believe in the Bible, but I read the Bible, where was Moses buried? So, what has happened to Zambia is not something new, it has happened before. But the question should be how was it resolved? So I'm not speaking to say let's look for PF. I'm not saying let's look for a vehicle to use. We can make Brand Maked Bizul be the people's choice because it's about the people, it's about the Zambian people, and the season favors the two brothers. Unfortunately, I've nothing against these others, but I've got everything against what Zambians don't want. Zambians don't want a certain crop of leadership, so I'm siding with the Zambians, but I don't want to be caught in a mix of identifying the driver and the vehicle. What Zambians need is the driver. So let's give them the driver, that's all. Which vehicle they use, the Zambians will give us a signal. Zambians have made a decision on what they don't want. And outside with the Zambian people. We know where PF is, but is that the conversation Zambians are having? The answer is no. Are people having a conversation to say where is don't say? No. Are people asking a conversation of where is who car? No. The conversation is who is the driver? Of what vehicle? Zambians will give us whether it's Nissan, whether it's a Maserati, it's an Aston Martin. Zambians will tell us, oh, now you have a driver. Drive the Maserati, drive the AO 300. So you Zambians have told us to find a driver. They have a vehicle. So what you tell us to say PFUFDD, that's is impairing, doesn't that value? Let's have a driver, and the Zambians will give us a vehicle to use.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:51

Oh, wonderful. Um as we go, you know, to our last set of questions. The you just regarded, touched the matter of the late President, Zambia sixth president, you know, his excellency Dr. Edgar Chagualungo, whose motto remains have not been put to rest. What are your views? Why, what should be done? What are your thoughts around this very sad scenario? Um there have been arguments. The state is saying, no, it's not us who took the matter to court, but they're the ones that took the matter to court. The family only appealed the matter, and the family is not satisfied with the judgment because the judgment claims that the body should be reposited to the state, and the state owns the body. The family has that huge contention for now and for the future. That's why they appealed, because they don't believe in that judgment. But who should break the impasse? When can we put the late president in your view to you know to rest? Secondly, there was a huge screaming headline the other day about you working with President Hakainde HLM. And you used very unfamiliar terms. Just explain what you meant that you cannot work with President Hakainde Hilema. So I think take those two questions for me.

SPEAKER_20 2:00:25

Your own Honorable Munia's ambassador. The issue of having failed to bury President Edgar Lungu is an embarrassment. Having failed to bury a former head of state is an embarrassment. It borders on people's ego. Unfortunately, it goes into our history books that we failed to bury our head of state. What is more painful is that if we can fail to have the motto remains intact, a simple funeral we have failed. Can we resolve health care? Can we resolve our infrastructure problems? Can we resolve our energy problems? The answer is no. A simple funeral we have filled. The other day I saw Zeisco using some form of miss and jump instead of land cruisers. The aspirations of the Zambian people have been reduced. What we knew was that Zeusco uses land cruiser in case of emergencies, where the bad roads, a land cruiser will go. But what we see now are simple small cars, whether the Nissan Champs, I don't know what they call them. What we have seen is our aspirations have been reduced to building hospitals, to building classroom blocks. The aspirations of the Zambian people have been reduced from building airports to building toilets. The aspirations of the Zambian people have been reduced to commissioning solar projects. I don't think we are a country that can tell a good story. Failing to bury the motor remains of the former president, surely we cannot do anything that will meet the aspirations of the Zambian people. We have been cheapened and it is embarrassing. I do not know of you friends at the diaspora what good stories you have to tell about Zambia. I do not know which investor can come into a country where you boast of commissioning toilets. I don't know. It is painful, it is embarrassing. But some people should have taken a decision, a board decision, so that we bury the former president. This is embarrassing, and it is sad that it will remain embedded in the books of history, and our great-great-grandchildren will come and read that at this moment the Zambian people failed to bury their former president. The way we read the story is Adolf Benito Sodin in history. This is also going to be read in history one day.

SPEAKER_05 2:03:32

And the headline in the I think in the must about you working with President Akainde Ichlema, you try to express an impossibility.

SPEAKER_20 2:04:16

There was a lead newspaper headline in the news diggers that I'm a nuisance. Ambassador. Yes, I can. So why should I consult God?

SPEAKER_05 2:05:23

Yeah, as we close off, there's a matter you took up in God. First of all, congratulations. When you took up the matter of Bill 700. And when his ministers never came to Kandila, the two of you made history, and the constitutional court ruled in your favor and stopped that constitutional making process, determining that it was illegal, it had no legitimacy, and you know, uh government were directed on how to do the constitutional making process, you have gone in history with that. There's a matter you took just before your judgment, before the Lusaka Magistrate Court, you decided in an unprecedented manner to sue the magistrate that, in your view, had not conducted the trial properly because the people that uh accused you of that crime when you reported corruption allegations in regard to the Lusaka and Dora Jokari, you one of the issues you cited is that they didn't even bother to come and be on record and give witness statement to the case. Uh has that matter been dealt with? Can you update the nation about that matter that you had sued, I think, the PRIM from Lusaka, who was supposed then to deliver judgment. He proceeded anyway and sent you to prison. But you had taken that civil case in the constitutional court. Just highlight us about that and give us your closing remarks.

SPEAKER_20 2:06:59

Uh if you remember during the Bill 7 uh fiasco, yes, uh the speaker of the National Assembly said parliament enjoys immunity. During the Bill 7 fiasco, yes, the speaker declared that her members have immunity, so we are waiting for judgment in that matter so that we know whether that immunity is only applicable to certain names and certain individuals, but it would be subdued for me to get into the merits and demerits because we're just waiting for judgment. But Nelly Mouty, when our lawyers took her on for contempt of court, she cried parliamentary immunity. So, how is it that I didn't have immunity? She she enjoys immunity when we're all members of parliament. Okay, okay, so kindly give us your good views of the country that uh legal scholars will learn one or two from this scenario, but I think we'll have another interview, uh Ambassador. In conclusion, yes, I'm not speaking as PF because I know where the PF are. I'm speaking on behalf of the majority Zambians that are calling for us to give them a driver. Let us not labor talking about the PF. We are wasting time instead of us having a productive conversation. PF won't come back from where it is today or tomorrow. It may come back in the near future, but not now. For now, Zambians are looking for a driver, and in us harmonizing the situation, the majority of the Zambians from where I sit and I'm coming from, they've proposed two names. And I've got no benefit of doubt in my mind that we need to work with these two drivers. Let one be the main driver, the other one be the lorry boy. There is no harm. We'll still get to our destination.

SPEAKER_05 2:09:29

Oh, thank you very much. Thank you, thank you, thank you very much. Dear viewers, it's been a pleasure. Yeah, dear viewers, we were hosting Honorable Munia Zulu, a former independent member of parliament for Lumezi, and we're privileged that since his freedom he chose this platform. Um, let me just play in conclusion as we allow Honorable Munia Zulu to go. There's a video I liked where he summarized the issues that literally took him to prison.

SPEAKER_20 2:10:07

We were suspended for not being held by parliament without the privilege of sitting to suspend us. Only the speaker, single-handedly, suspended us for 30 days. Secondly, the hate speech is only applicable to the members in opposition. When the Secretary General of the UPND calls an archbishop of Lusaka a Lucifer is not hate speech. When the Minister of Education calls the people of Luapula Province as suffering from poverty of the mind is not hate speech. When I say I'm more intelligent than him, it's hate speech.

SPEAKER_18 2:10:54

That a former president in the name of Wedika Chagwaru, who terribly failed to manage the order and the welfare of this country, is busy manipulating himself to have issues of thinking he can come back to this country. Zambians are not docile. Zambians will never, never, never be taken back to areas where they cannot access freedom in the market. Zambians will not be taken back to an opportunity by even just boarding a bus wearing any party's t-shirt was a crime. Zambians will not be taken back when new allowances and the investment of Zambia was scrapped off. Zambians will not be taken back when even just shaking a hand with someone who belongs to another political party was a crime. He must watch his tapes. We are not here, Doctor. People, the civil servants, we are not working. Because under the civil service, there was a still individual. Ethnicity was at the code of the day. Promotion was just mounted on because you belong to a certain political pattern of ethnicity. Is that what Rungu thinks he can take us back to? We are bidding to government if there is opportunity for Rugu to come to North Western, please do it quick. Bring him here. Bring him here so that we teach him a restaurant and you remember the time his mother cried when giving birth to him. We cannot be doing things like cry babies in the country. Who is Rungu? Who does he think he is? He does he want Zambia. Does he want Zambia? Please, we ask Mr. Rungu to consider himself as a statesman or face proper circumcision that he has never witnessed before. He will see us. And to the youths in Rusaka, we are picking to you, colleagues. Wake up. Wake up. If you don't have money power there, tell us we come. As a province, we are very much ready to coordinate and bring the youth then back.

SPEAKER_05 2:13:15

People were clapping to those off remarks. Remarks that were against the law. Remarks that should never even have been aired, but they were even aired by ZMBC. Demonstrates the selective nature of our laws where they are being applied. Honorable Mumbipiri, my guest uh is your young brother, Honorable Munia Zulu. We've just concluded, but you have something to say, so I'll let you say it. He's in the studio, but you can proceed to say what you want to say.

SPEAKER_16 2:13:49

Uh thank you so much. Munia Zulu is not my young brother, he's my son.

SPEAKER_05 2:13:55

Oh, yes, your son, indeed.

SPEAKER_16 2:13:57

Yeah, yeah, no, anybody who is less than 40 is my son because I couldn't call earlier because my counselor, the one who was my counselor in 2006, Jamesere has lost a wife. And the young brother is our present counselor to the late kumutendere what my sonia was preaching about unity between me Babu and Munduire Nabamakebi. And I'm one of those people who has been working in the background that these people, yes, whether people like it or not, they are the front runners. But I'm a supporters from a conka kebi to cavantu, and yet we are pretending to be trying to unite these people. So far from Makebi's side, oh now, and I don't know how true that audio is. That's the only one. This which I'm going to say, Naritu Mine, even I can mention them because in a mwari is a mumba inanda face in to for fidi. When I mutambo, called us women who are moving with Makebi as Vaderaila. As if that's not enough, so Godfre Godfreasumaidi by her name. Bamwamba. Ine was married at the age of 21, 22. One man, with one man, have been married. Inumwakani 36 years old. Do I deserve to be called Elijah? Who is calling herself chair person for elections? Ba lungu naba mundubide. Ba pusene umulandu waku are ya no day. Na uyu wavaku S P numba. What's what's his name? Baalesarula Walungu. And this Walungu told me from his own mouth. Yes, Walungu identified Munduire to be a leader. But rather emgu of minimo. Now chrufetayadi adi chre confirm. Although enalumbuire fi chimo, icha kwebat al andirati, barelanda chumba mundubide ifinefi. Chrufetayadi, alungbuire chimuati because tail mkumonaba bicho. Andyolo ba lungu ba mfumine mumundubide. Balungwa againi sent ba mkupa to go and meet chitaru chirufia. Chitaru chirufia wasatwari mwene, atankiro kwenda nahaka indei chilema. Nan baba mundubide. Gatawasan birira u kwevati ba pusene nabalungu because of the people who were following him, insulting others. A baba vijibaka chitashani unite ineshua inemun bipiri. Utinawa de rida me sayakwa mutambo. Umwaicho and because she's forty-six years old.

unknown 2:19:04

Don't give birth to a forty-six-year-old person.

SPEAKER_16 2:19:08

Others have spoken to me to say, what if she apologizes? When she said that, I reached out to Honorable Mutokafuya, but he told me that he was going to speak to her. The other person I spoke to was JJ. And I dishlean mutambo kuri je. And she was going to apologize. She has never done that. The last time I was talking to JJ, I told him, panotufi kire. To me, or the other women she caught that. I cannot accept that. Why? Because it's Shara Monika. It's because I endere pamu. She believes in Nakuluta Zanibu Deraida. And I can pretend, I can't pretend because my son, I'm sorry, I might disappoint you, but the truth of the matter is you just need my kebi. All of us we are useless. Let my kebab on his own. Me, I'm gonna ready. I can sit at home and look after my children. But she belongs to the kitchen. Publicly so. That's why he can call out chipwanawasa, chip or stand up. I can't. And in kanin kuatu muntu, ure and konka. Ale tu kaba andu aleva sardula. It's the way you are talking to people. And I'm going to tell him that those women should never be near Munduvire. Now the move. If you forwa chta beaving him, gale similar delida. For be it. In a quite valued mamataba. And you know, it's it makes me so sad. It's fair woman. I don't know. Anyway, now she just wanted that people should hear and your broadcast, your podcast goes far. That's the way I feel. I've never been Delaila, and I'll never be in my life. I'm 56 years old now. I'm 10 years older than uh Biden Mutambo. Anyway, my elections. Let's see how far they will go. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 2:23:15

Thank you very much. Uh uh now. When you allow one call, you are forced to allow other calls. From and make your contributions quickly.

SPEAKER_15 2:23:27

Okay, my name is Jesus. I am calling from Michigan City.

SPEAKER_05 2:23:33

Yes, my dear sister, make your contributions. Thank you very much. Thank you. Let me take some more quick calls. Allo caller, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from. Mr. Kaffuimbi from Australia, make your quick contribution, my brother.

SPEAKER_27 2:25:31

Yes, uh, my brother. Uh just give me our test test so so so so long because I want to refer a free video where our young brother was speaking there.

SPEAKER_28 2:25:43

Uh he was speaking about saying things about people, and then it becomes an offense. It becomes an offense. And I've had a problem, you know. I even you you deliberately did not give me George Bonga's number. You have known me for so long, you know. EMV, when we started whatever about that, you know, but these people instantly. Why can't we just talk? And it's people from from from one camp. Member, finish the spirits, finish the spray. You know, and that's what me I was talking about. I was looking at this video there. But look at what I can say George Mutonga. I don't even know his name. But it's one of the short in the movement.

SPEAKER_05 2:27:08

I'm going, my dear brother from Australia. I'm going to pass on the number for George Mutonga. I know we are in different camps, but he likes uh to uh engage, and of course, those remarks he made were totally unfortunate. And I'll give you the number, I know he will respond to you and you will speak. Yes, but your point is in Lemma politics, insane politics. You know, that's what Honorable Mumbipiri was just complaining.

SPEAKER_28 2:27:38

We were dealing with Itchili know. Um we need to calm down, and we we you know we change our mind, it doesn't matter what camp someone is. Lilian Adifi. I was fighting against, I was fighting for by Itchy, huh? Lilian was in the other camp, but um gaffe still.

SPEAKER_05 2:28:05

And in this case, which Lillian are you talking about? Because I was a Lilian being discussed here.

SPEAKER_28 2:28:10

Oh no, no, no, no, no, no. I I don't talk about the other Lilian, I was talking about our former GPP.

SPEAKER_05 2:28:15

Okay, okay. Yes, you had the funeral, at the funeral, and Mutonga made some unfortunate remarks. Yes, now I understand. Okay, you're my brother. Let me take the other quick calls because I'm about to close.

SPEAKER_37 2:28:35

Hello, Ambassador Mwamba. This is Pumi from California.

SPEAKER_05 2:28:38

My dear sister, make your contributions.

SPEAKER_37 2:28:41

Thank you. I just want to um welcome back, um, Honorable Moni Azulu, and uh, we are sorry to uh it's uh story, but we don't go for his life, but go to cloud for a story for money, but money or also it will expose a little pull. But I want to echo the wheels of my money point. Um process gone off the wheel to do uh pulling the hotel of something of the fucking wheel. You know I'm not gonna pull out uh to be a monotony okay. So the the long in the cooking. You know you are probably belonging to cooking. Someone will not someone know what the mouth is in your house in your house. Violet people's routes or three dollars or the middle and you have to stop. And all the people are following up. I've got a bottom information following up our children from the mouth and of my youth, three girls, if you don't know me. Now we can put our information above because we're not gonna talk to false information above us. I've got to have three children from my mouth and mark on my youth. Full stop, okay? We're not going to a post. But I don't want to be able. We are both I want to be this woman we are putting up to destroy you. This woman is uh this one ignoring everyone. People are doing a few more people who are being called it because of it. Little close to be a poor. Oh, I don't know what to close myself to be. Apple to everybody. I would like to appeal to the moment. Not to ignore this, or no, to condone Lilian. It's not okay for Lillian to be home like that and you're all quiet. Ambassador Mamba was insulted here. So I just want to tell you about Lillian. You say you are a woman of God. What kind of God do you pray to? Where in the afternoon or whatever time you can be insulting women and then go and close in the closet and pray hallelujah, Jesus. You are a hypocrite. I submit.

SPEAKER_05 2:32:04

Thank you very much. Um, allocola, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make give us your contributions.

SPEAKER_36 2:32:11

Good evening, Ampastatemuamba.

SPEAKER_05 2:32:14

Good evening. Mayo long time, long time wakaputa. Make your contributions.

SPEAKER_36 2:32:51

Um a path zone by Chipushwoki. Bonsa Fiya Lingitua. Number Camusan Excuse me. You know about Pitulu came off your tool and focal and pancha beefakuri. But you change a toy for a young motoka number driver to shame. Friend driver, what kataya fish. Mayum la pepper. Church and while angochene qua shuiwe, yalandirwe. Eh Namilo Bamayo, we shall be capilla. Okay, maquebizulu ale ye for fine. Ah, Mumbayo said my kebu mofine. Now they share mundovide. Malina said to ready for Pam. Monsetra before I am Tima Uquele, quai for forever pepaliza. Tebaconsi, I could say you were sending the cali. No bambi conga three pepalesa. It's been got sangatus, some thirty two. One thirty-two solution, in a langati, let's hangatale, inani engine a cumulola qui no cubesha. Mayo, Elele. Gabriel Fonkui, fine number dinner. Octo Mukwishan you le womba won't say me in my bomba.

SPEAKER_05 2:35:47

Thank you very much. Thank you. Hello, Cola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and give us your contribution.

SPEAKER_22 2:35:58

Yes, this is Kids and calling you from surprise. I would just like to support what uh said. Even you are not inspired by DMB. It has been committing rubbish uh when you post it. Okay. Let us be just be clear with these things. Okay? Look at what happened uh at UVK uh today. Okay, he doesn't want to associate this with the current leadership of the patriot. Let brand with using PF regarding, let brand start using the FDD uh regarding. Pf is bigger than brand. We cannot PF cannot fall brand module into FDD. So we shouldn't even be talking about your saying your brand should work with market because time is running out. We need to come up with a strategy whereby we choose our driver, the person who is going to lead us. Time we can help we are going to brand would be brand would be brand would be at the right. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_05 2:37:25

Thank you very much. We might just find a day to discuss the issue of leadership and unity because this is a matter that evokes so much, so much um feelings. Yes, Katongo, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_26 2:37:52

Yes, uh Ambassador Mamba. All these people are saying, no, go this one, go this one, let's work together. That cannot work. The only thing that can happen, allow, let's allow anyone who wants to stand to stand. Because after all, whatever's happened was the reason why certain things were done to PF so at this can result. And whoever was planning that, they must be celebrating that actually what they wanted to do is what has happened. So uh going forward, let's allow because there's no time to do all these people suggesting now. Let's allow everyone who stands, who wants to stand to stand so they can split the vote, and for a fact, there's no one who is going to get 50 plus one. And if that happens, then it will show us now who should be right blind for a year.

SPEAKER_05 2:38:55

Thank you. Hello, Cola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and give us your contribution.

SPEAKER_16 2:39:04

Yes, I'm coming by calling from Lusaka. I'm just challenging by Babrian Mundovile to come in the open and condemn Liliane Lutambu's insults. Because if he is a presidential candidate with the sort to be the president of this nation, I don't think he should sing solo and fold his hands while Lillian is insulting our mothers, and sometimes sometime back somebody even called them to say the penguin of Madagascar. Is that really fair? Let one really come out in the open.

SPEAKER_05 2:39:59

Yes, Cola, please tell us your name and where you're calling from and give us your contribution.

SPEAKER_24 2:40:04

Uh Mr. Amwamba, this is Enoch. I'm in the Copper Belt.

SPEAKER_05 2:40:09

Yes, Enoch, give us your contributions quickly.

SPEAKER_24 2:40:12

Um, I'll be quick. Uh, one thing I've observed uh on the on the camp for Brian Munich. It's a camp that is so difficult to even unite. Um surrounded by difficult people, look at my school, look at these other MPs that we have been promised position and position and position, which becomes difficult to so even if people are calling and saying that let us unite the zoo and brand, that practically is impossible. No matter people there, we are busy committing and saying, let brand start using FDG and stop using A and see what happens. You know, I I was in one of the where we were we went to, and what I saw is the situation which we are giving me the statement, but there is having a banner we can actually go. You know, because of the cycle. So even if even if no matter how much I know you stated that these two should be united, but trust me, the group has formed, I don't know if it's the group which has formed itself, the group of Benalidian Mutambo, those are not united. That's what I want you to call.

SPEAKER_05 2:41:54

Thank you. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contributions. Yes, Cola.

SPEAKER_09 2:42:28

A election equity air lasty, but was look in a air lasty. So Matwasenda Mantomashendakumati, Amanda Matrix, united is impossible. Then let's even forget about our country if we cannot fail to unite. Unity should come as a sacrifice. I'm not discussing people here. I'm just giving an example. If you are going to play it very badly, there will never be election in Zambia again. So that one could be a pamufubu and safe. We need each other and de miba. Then you say the nice chapter unity. Unity is bigger than even if you say.

SPEAKER_05 2:44:26

Thank you, thank you. Allo Cola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and give us your contribution.

SPEAKER_02 2:44:33

Good evening, Ambassador. Good evening. My name is Tan. My name is Tanjiwe Ketish Ngoma.

SPEAKER_05 2:44:39

Oh, yes, my dear researcher and uh and and and author.

SPEAKER_02 2:44:45

Yes, um, I just want to welcome uh my comrade, uh comrade Munia Zulu. Uh my heart bleeds really to hear of whatever I went through in prison. And uh whatever I went through is not something that can be wished on anybody, and I hope uh our prison facilities could do better so that uh even people, even as people go in those correctional facilities, they will they'll be treated uh uh as human beings and not what you really went through. Uh, I just want to comment on the this sort of thing, uh this thing so-called unity, that uh you are uh uh trying to advocate for. Everybody really wishes to see that we have a united uh opposition, and you've picked on two brothers, uh Honorable Munia, uh sorry, Make Bizulu and Honorable Brian Mundovile. But I think we have to get to a point where we have to state things as they are and call a speed as it is. You know, we are dealing with a country and uh we need a leader. Okay, we need a leader, we're not looking for people that will take Zambia um where it's not supposed to be. By this I mean we need a leader with integrity, and a leader that will respect Zambians, a leader that we will also stand with and say, okay, Ulu, Eo. Why have I said we need a leader? I'll just give a quick example. But Brian Mundoville, I don't mean to disrespect him, I respect him, he's a very good man. But uh, if he can betray his own party, I don't think he's somebody we can trust with leadership. Brian Mundovile used to belong to the PF, and whatever happened, and whatever happened, everybody knows that uh uh he came out of PF in a way that is uh I can say was not uh okay was it company in a way that was not good, everybody knows. But sorry, but PF in a way that was um unprecedented and via join our Tonse, and now our Brian Mundwile, as we are talking right now, is a chairperson for Tonse. I want to state this an illegality can never give birth to a legal outcome. We are dealing with a country. In as much as we want to say Brian Mundubile and Makebizulu have to unite, we have to we have to differentiate and makeuvile wants to be the president of Zambia using illegal means, and this is not what we're looking for as Zambians. We want a president that will respect the constitution just before anything else. The party that put him there is the party he stabbed. Whatever Mingalatoi has done, he has found himself and now he's busy calling the other people to join him. But Brian Mundumide ever asked the family where he belongs to. So how can he be the one calling the friends to join him? I still to borrow on Arabakebi's wealth, I'll still say that Brian Mundwile is a prodigal son. If we are talking of unity, Brian Mundwide should be the one to go and join his friends. He is the one to join his friends and not the other way around. If he was genuine, if he means well, if he wants to leave Zambia, he should be the one to go and join his fellow politicians or PF. What has made him go to Tonsay only him understands. Right now we see him go now. He's trying to to get in the structures of the PF and portray that he is he is on the ground when the people that he goes to are still the PF structure. But he's still using the PF structure, PF structure, PF symbol. So n kumefokulanda pali unit. My brand should go back where he belongs. Because you can't be talking of unity when my brand is busy. It's there in the PF structures. It's there in the PF structures. But letoga, but so unity to Lelanda Papa unity ashang. The person who has to go back to the friends is Brian Montumili. If you cannot go back there, then there's no unity you can talk about. Let's remain with one person, the other person is Makebizoro. Because my brand won turning, we cannot sanitize an illegality. We can't. Everybody knows how he moved from PF and found himself to tonsil. That was done illegally. And this is the person we want to be to have as a leader. No, we can do better.

SPEAKER_05 2:50:57

Thank you, my dear sister.

SPEAKER_02 2:50:59

Before you, as I as I close, if these things cannot be corrected now, what happens if this person is given now that big position as a president? Who have another HH as a president? Who have another HH? HH cannot respect the constitution. If brand cannot respect his own constitution, what guarantee do we have that you're going to respect the Zambian constitution? If you cannot respect the constitution what the party belongs to, what guarantee do we have that you respect the Zambian constitution? As we are speaking, as we are advocating for unity. Let's be objective and let's pick things as they are. Let's be truthful to ourselves. The only thing that can work if unity has to happen. Brian has to go, honorable brand, sorry, I don't need to disrespect him. Honorable Brian Mundumila has to go back to the PF. Other than that, there won't be any unity. He can't be the one calling them the party where he belonged to. He can't be the one calling them to join him. I mean, this is an insult, if you have to ask me. This is an insult. It's just it's a betrayer. It's a betrayer. You are fuma mungista, and the way you belong, wanko kubita. I mean. And uh as though that's not enough. He goes on now, he wants to go and get the structures of the PF and you want to call for unity. No. As it stands now, Brian is there just to destroy PF, as it can be seen from the way he did women's there and the and and and and uh youth there now. He goes, he's just going after the PF structures. If the total alliance has gone to really stand for, means well and they want unity, Brian should not be going after the PF structures. But if he's going for that, he's not ready for unity, he's there to split votes. He's there to split votes. If Brian Mondrile means well, let him get back to he can't we can't be talking of Brian and Makebe working together. Makebi belongs to PF. So you cannot separate Makeb from PF because Makebi belongs to PF. Brian should go back to PF.

SPEAKER_05 2:53:25

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Tandio. Thank you, Katie Singoma. She's a writer. You are our last caller. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from.

SPEAKER_07 2:54:12

Community movie some of you and a battery. I won't for some guava tie by carrying a monarchy. So to anybody accept. I'm a key zero machine by land.

SPEAKER_05 2:54:51

Bamunia Zoom.

SPEAKER_07 2:54:56

Yes, I might say I have said one Sabanum. So I'm a land of period in a panic. It's true. I'm as we are good in Tambo. I'm going to candid almost a lot of candidate to my name. On that show.

SPEAKER_05 2:57:04

My idea colour.

SPEAKER_07 2:57:38

I have a wheel. I must like I must drive chat.

SPEAKER_12 2:58:08

Thank you very much. We want change. We want change. We want change. We want change. We want to change all in the body.

SPEAKER_35 2:58:27

Why on the big boy? I'll buy that to a pivot. What do you want me to see?