HOSTING TANYA MALAMA FOOKS

LIVE NOW:We host marketing executive and expert, Tanya Malama Fooks as we discuss the state of our county.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Would you be surprised if I told you that the Patriotic Front is borrowed well over$26 million in total with public debt by the time they left office? But they still have a sheer audacity that look you in the eye, but welcome to the reality. I'm tiny on the folks, and I have one job here, and that's to make you think it easily. Welcome back to part two of There's No Sacred Cow. In the first part, we established that demanding accountability doesn't make you a political target. We looked at the$50 million in USAID that was needed under the UP and D due to systematic medicine debt. And we asked if the president's no sacred county promise was actually real. Today we're looking at what appears to be a coward because a hidden audit is exactly how you protect a sacred county. After the US has cut funding, the President's own government commissioned a forensic audit of the Italian Medicine and the Medical Supplies Agency at the Price Waterhouse Committee. The audit began in October 2024 and it concluded in August 2025. It's now March 2026. You, the taxpayer, paid for the audit, but you are still not allowed to see it. Back in September 2025, the Minister of Health, the Ministry of Health presented summary findings to Parliament.

SPEAKER_06 5:23

Thank you very much. Today we are hosting Tanya Malama Fuchs, an expert based in the United Kingdom. And I was playing snippets of our viral videos on TikTok. TikTok is just another world. And um Tanya's um uh special short broadcast uh have gone viral, and she's quoted even by international media for a commentary on Zambia, the economic, social, and political issues happening in our country, and she's our guest today. And I'll speak shortly about Tanya. She's already in the studio with me. But let me start with this the matter of serious concern that happened in Kalumbilla, where we lost um a forty-six-year-old woman from Chingola. She traveled to see her relatives in Kalumbilla in Solezi. Her name is Anelus Helen Kamtoomba. Today she was being put to rest. On um is it 21st or so March 2026 in Kisasa area of Kalumbilla District, she was clearly uh brutally murdered by a mob following false allegations by a 25-year-old young man who claimed that his private parts were stolen from him when apparently they bumped into each other. The if you see the video, the sickening part is that they are children, they are young people that were conducting this murder. How life was not respected, how the sacredness of life was uh not um honored. We saw this during the gussing period where even a former permanent secretary was killed. Someone just needed to say, Ever letter gassing, and the mob descended, and in the manner they killed, there's some depref depravity that has emerged. The manner in which uh uh Jackson Congo, member of the Central Committee of the PF, was killed on election day in Solozi. Same manner, false allegations and the crowd descends, and the brutality of the murder is a matter of serious concern. So may the soul of the of uh the lady from Chingola, NL Salen Kamtoomba, rest in eternal peace. But it's a moment of reflection for all stakeholders, for all the leaders in various spheres. Whether you are a civic leader, you are a political leader, you are a leader in church, what happened in Kisasa is a window that is showing us something dangerous is brewing in our communities, in our country. Today I'm hosting Tanya Malama Fuchs. She's a senior marketing strategy and she's a civic advocate. Tanya Malama is a senior marketing professional with over 20 years of experience driving growth for global tech leaders, including PLO, Inuit, QuickBooks, and Board International. Currently, she's at the adaptive group. She continues to forge her career in the high tech in the high tech landscape in the United Kingdom. While her mission is now firmly centered on the future of Zambia, and this has shown by various trips to back to our home country, Zambia. Why I brought her here are for me the videos she's been issuing are very very wonderful, insightful analysis on the state of our country. Uh this is a conversation like no other. Let me bring Tanya onto uh onto the studio. Tanya, I'm grateful that you honored my invitation and thank you very much. We don't take it for granted. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 9:38

I'm very well. Thank you so much for inviting me. It's a pleasure to be on your show. Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 9:45

Your videos have attracted international attention. Every time I go to your page, I saw commentary and the viral nature in which your your comments, especially on Zamba, have gone viral. Are you surprised by the virality of these videos?

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Not at all. I expected it. No, of course I am. Of course I am. No, it's been a nice surprise. Um, you do the videos and you know how it is when you produce something and you're like, I think it's really good, but I don't know. And it's only when you start to see those numbers racking up. Actually, it's only when people randomly send me something or like I'm tagged on a random page, like I was tagged on uh what's that web um whistleblower, Zambian whistleblower. And I was like, oh my god, I've never even heard of them. You know, so you end up like um intrigued. I was contacted by uh DW, the German news company, as well. So it's things like that that kind of make you think, oh, okay, people are watching. So it's been a pleasant surprise.

SPEAKER_06 10:49

We we want your voice to be located in Zambia very strongly. Um for me, I've attempted when I formed this podcast to elevate the debate. I always joke that if you look at our newspapers, you look at the everyday commentary in our country, it's like especially our political leaders, they talk about who has the largest forehead, who has the largest nose, or who's short and who's tall, and not the issues affecting our country. And when I hear narratives like the one you push, I said she should be on the podcast. And many media in Zambia must quote her so that we elevate the quality and standard of our debate, so that we can go back to the issues that should emancipate our countries, issues of policy, issues affecting our people, and you know, policies that are implemented. So it's for the reason that you are here.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Thank you very much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 11:40

Now tell us about yourself. Many people will not know who Tanya Fuchs is, who Tanya Malama Fuchs. In fact, when they hear Malama, they get surprised. Oh, she's Zambian. Tell us about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Oh, that's one of those horrible questions. You know, it all started in 19. Anyway, we won't go there. Um, but I'm originally born in Mansa and uh grew up in Zambia. Um, I'll try and do, I think, an abbreviated version and we can add um color to the story a bit more later. But uh grew up in Mansa and um, sorry, grew up in Lusaka. I I went to uh the international school, I went to Caboy Trust School for a period of time, and then around about 14, I went to boarding school in the UK. And from 14 to about 16, my parents moved back from uh Zambia to the UK. So actually, I I was just finished my GCSEs. I was like, yes, I'm going back home, I'm going to party, see my friends. And my parents called one day and said, no, we're moving back to the UK, you're not coming back. And I was like shattered because I just wanted to go and have fun with my friends. But um, so that's kind of where my life then transitioned to being based in the UK. And um from that period on, like education, university, marriage, uh, families kind of happened in the UK. And I was one of those people, like I always said, you know, oh no, I'm Zambian. I told everyone, everyone knew I was from Zambia. And oh no, I've only been in the UK two years, five years. And I remember I got to 10 years of saying, No, I've been in the UK 10 years. And I was like, mm-mm, you need to stop that. You're now just in the UK. So you kind of have to adapt your your mindset, your thinking, who are you? What's my identity? And so I then adapted myself. I, you know, uh became a uh a British person effectively. I got my British passport. When I got married, I actually ended up then moving to Spain. So my family and I moved to Spain. We were there for about four years. I'm I'm somebody like with itchy feet all the time. You know, you just about settle into something, and then you're like, what about if we do this? You know, so originally I'd wanted to move to Australia, but then we decided, no, let's move to Spain because it was a bit closer to the UK as well. And so I spent five years there. But um, when I uh left my now ex and uh came back to the UK, I was also in a bit of a limbo, like, well, you know, who am I? What is my life, you know? And I stayed in the UK for a year.

SPEAKER_06 14:24

Are you still nostalgic about Zambia?

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Um I'm getting there, I'm getting there. The punchline. So um I came back to the UK, but then when COVID hit in um 2019, um I was it was one of those things I was actually in the middle of arranging the International Women's Day with the embassy in in um the UK, and uh we had to cancel that event. Yes, with the Zambian Embassy. And uh we had to cancel the event because you know, we just didn't know whether we'd be allowed to hold this event. And you know, we went on lockdown and the whole of the UK just uh came to a standstill. And that two-week, sorry, two-year period um was one of those like I was on my own, there's a lot of self-reflection. And I remember just thinking, yeah, when we come out of lockdown, yeah, I'm going straight to Zambia. And um, I remember I'd refused to get the COVID vaccine. I was like, no, I'm not doing that. And then when it was like, in order to travel, you have to have the vaccine.

SPEAKER_06 15:30

I was like, get it the vaccine.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Yes. I was like, I'm gonna do this now. So um I arranged a nice trip. I did a three-month trip. I'm lucky enough that I'm a remote worker, so I can work from anywhere. So I just arranged a three-month trip. I was going to be in Zambia. I had this whole like going to South Africa, Livingston, and I was, you know, doing this big trip. I was in Lusaka one week and I was like, I don't want to go back. I just from that point thought, how do I make this my home? You know, how do I transition over? Um, and so that I, you know, can be here. But what I've effectively done is I actually go back and forth. So I will spend a few months in the UK. So currently, like I'm in the UK, um, and then I'll spend um a few months in Zambia. So it's been actually a pleasure to be a pleasure and a privilege to be able to uh you know live on two continents and go back and forth because you know our Zambian people, when you get tired of them, it's like, yeah, you know, no delays on things.

SPEAKER_06 16:45

Yes, no one of intro. I think it will work for for today's broadcast. This is what brings me to this question. Your commentary, um good analysis on the economy and on our politics. You've lived you know in Zambia, in the UK, in Spain, and visited many places across the world. When you look at our sixty years, the life of our country, where we are, as we look forward to the next sixty years, what do you think we should have done better? What errors and mistakes did we make? What can we do better? What's your reflection of the last sixty years of our country?

SPEAKER_00 17:32

You know, that sounds like you know, when you're at school and the teacher says, uh, could do better on your report card. You know, it's a really difficult thing because um, in all honesty, depending on what type of character you are, if you're a person of faith or not, I do believe that things happen as they are supposed to. And uh the things that we've gone through are things that our country has, the country and the leaders have been um impacted to do. You know, you you we found that we have a mass of wealth underground, and that wasn't something that somebody decided or chose, it's just a part of where we live. You know, we're a landlocked country, so we have to do um our exports very differently to how other countries are doing theirs. We started as a population of three million at independence, and we're now at you know 20 million people. Um, we're trying to uh change our economic status because we're always looking, let's say, to what the Western world is is saying, but we're not necessarily reflecting on our own world and saying, you know what, we don't need the Western world's um financial abundance. We we want to participate in those things. So what you do for yourself and then what the outside world influences on you as well is a very difficult balancing act. And so what we've ended up with is people coming in and dominating based on their power and experiences and dictating the directions that we should go, and the rest of the country has to fall in line. So, what I think is more pertinent is it's easy to have a person of power come and influence and move your country in a certain direction, as we've seen with Trump in America. But it's not so easy for people to push back, and I think that's the problem that Zambia has had. Culturally, we're very docile, well-behaved people, you know, if you're in shiawe, you know, when you have a CEO of a company speaking in in a lot of companies in Zambia, and I've heard this, you know, everyone else just agrees. But after the meetings, that's when they go, ah, we know what it's shiny so, you know, like they don't have the guts to say those things in the meetings, but they'll say it outside and they'll complain outside. And um, you know, these are the things that influence and impact what what moves the country forward. And for me personally, um, I went through like a period of liking KK and then also thinking, nah, this man is not good for the country. But on reflection, I remember he was going through a period of time where he was looking at what his other, you know, the other African countries were doing. And they were all trying to follow this, you know, monarchy mode that was in the UK, which was there's a monarchy, they're there for life, you know. And so a lot of the leaders were like, I'm going to be here for life, you know, your Idiamine's and, you know, those people that wanted to hold on to their power. So you do what's a reflection of your time at that, at that point in time. And the world changes and things change. And here we are yet again with yet another spin on do we look at Trump and go, yes, this is the type of world that we want to live in, to be aggressive, to to run on one point of saying, no, we're not going to be a war, um, we're not going to do war, we're not going to be drawn in by war, we're going to be um America first, you know. And next minute you turn around and you know, you kidnap the ambassador of Venezuela and then you uh bomb Iran. So that is changing, which also gives the people in our country currently a way of different thinking. Wait, you mean I don't have to accept that this president is here for life or for for two terms? You mean we can change that? So this is this is more, I think that's the crux of a lot of the things that we have going on in the country.

SPEAKER_06 21:44

Um, wonderful. Um your reflection of the current state of our country. Now you have been informed by your personal insights, you've traveled to Zambia frequently. What's the state of our country?

SPEAKER_00 22:03

I think you know, when I think about Zambia, I look at it like a teenager. You know, we went through our growing pains. Um, we tried to understand what our assets are, you know. Uh, like when you're young, you think, oh no, nobody will like me, I'm ugly. And then you go, yeah, but you know, these are your assets. You know, we've got our, you know, uh minerals, and people are coming to us, giving us things in exchange for things. So we have value to other people. So we have to reflect on on that asset that we're seeing that we have, and then that gives you a sense of pride or power. And um, as a teenager, we're starting to flex our muscles. Oh, you want our minerals? First, we also want this, you know? Or you can still be like, oh, um, the Americans uh want to give us money in exchange for um our minerals. Yeah, okay, that's a good idea. And we'll sign, we'll sign that away. Or, you know, so the way that you're learning to be as a country is is is like a teenager would be going through their stages right now, you know. So I see that we're we've hit the growing pains. We understand the value that we have. I think a lot of our previous leaders didn't understand how to maintain wealth. And so a lot of it was um kind of given away. You know, we we allow these mining companies to come in and for reduced taxes, and you think to yourself, but if you're reducing the taxes, you're minimizing what's coming into the country for the people. You know, we have we have a nation that's 60% still under the poverty rate, and only 40% of the people really pay taxes. So how are we generating wealth? You know, how do we move from a low GDP to a high GDP when we don't have that type of um uh population to deal with that? We have things like our engineers, doctors, nurses volunteering. They have to not be paid for like three to five years, which for me is crazy. If these people are not being paid, they're not paying taxes. So, how is money going in the coffers? We have a population of people working, but there's no money going into the coffers. So there's a lot of things that we still know.

SPEAKER_06 24:26

That issue of um volunteerism for me um gave me some rude awakening. I went to when I was permanent secretary in Northern Province, I visited Chilubi Island, and the council workers were ordered of up to 60 months. Now, this is like they are like almost four years. So I asked a question how do unpaid workers report for work every day? How do they manage their lives? How do they pay their rentals? How can they stay four years without payment? And it shows, in other words, the medicine will be stolen, the engine to the ambulance was stolen. It somehow finds its way in other activities that you may not like. The corruption, for example, uh that you accuse civil servants sometimes arises out of low pay, out of old allowances that have not been paid. I'm not saying people choose to be unscrupulous to survive. But if you don't pay for my work, how do you expect that I survive? And the example you've given at Ministry of Health, where we have qualified doctors in a country that has a very low number in relation to the number of doctors needed per population. You have a group of uh doctors that are not employed and are sacrificing their time every day, sometimes for three, four years. So are the nurses. That shouldn't just happen. That just shouldn't happen.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

It's absolutely wrong. And I would love to get a number from the government, how many people are actually still at volunteer status? Uh recently, was it the teachers? They said, oh, there's 2,000, is it 2,500 new teachers' jobs that are going um that are being advertised or being recruited for? And I thought, are they being paid for? That's the difference. You know, it's it looks great for the government to say we've recruited all these people, but have you paid for all these people? And that's the difference. And that's the real change. Um, I I I have a thing that you you you don't change a country from the top, you have to change it from the bottom, right? If um you can move me from zero income to let's just say 5,000 quats a month, I I can get um, let's let's say I'm in my 30s, right? At that point, I can get a one-bred, one bedroom in a studio place. I can pay maybe 1,500, 2,000, 500, 2,000 quatsha. I can pay for my food. Living expenses are relatively affordable in Zambia. Um, there was a young man who took me on a Yango, and um, he told me that he were he was an engineer working on the contracted roads, um, I think uh between Kitwen and Dola. And he decided he wasn't going to do that anymore. And he said, How am I supposed to get a wife with no money? You know, so he left that to be able to get a job that was paying, and Yango was one of those alternatives for him. And everyone in Zambia is an entrepreneur because you have to be, and exactly like you said, you find an engine from somewhere and you repurpose it to someone else. And that's how people end up surviving. But the whole point is this young man had aspirations to have a family, and he's looking at himself and going, I'm not in a status to call myself a man. And those are the things that I think that the government doesn't see when they're just busy saying, No, we've got volunteers.

SPEAKER_06 28:17

Which brings me to the state of our education system. You have an entire population taught to be workers. As soon as you graduate grade 12, as soon as you graduate university or college, you join the long queue for jobs. Entrepreneurship is not taught in our school, innovation is not taught in our school. In fact, how to handle money is not even taught in our schools. We have uh a curriculum that was designed by the British because they wanted workers and they didn't have workers, and they had to make you know a population of workers from these these villagers that they had recruited. But that's 60 years ago. That kind of education is no longer relevant. I've been a big advocate that our education needs to be totally decolonized, our education system needs to respond to our current um type of economy. We have a highly informal economy. Yet you are teaching people to be bankers and clerks and where how many banks are there for this huge population, these graduates to uh graduate from? I I I was always very sad when I was sent to a graduation uh ceremony as guest of honor. Because there I saw very hopeful children, young people that have graduated mostly at their own cost for diplomas and degrees that may never be accepted in a job market, a job market that's so narrow and doesn't literally exist. What are your thoughts about marrying our education system to the current state of our economy and the reality just of Zambia and Africa?

SPEAKER_00 30:07

I think it's it's an interesting one. So we are an evolving economy. We are, let me say, mining first, agriculture second, um, which are on the world stage, not the leading industries, you know. Uh on the world stage, the digital uh space is what leads, people developing software. There's billions and billions being made by software companies. And here we are still focusing on agriculture. And we are not a world exporter, not that I'm aware of, right? We we can export, but we are not considered like world exporters. Um, so as far as I see, there's a big lack of understanding what the rest of the world is doing. So we're just following suit. Um science, like you're saying, science and technology have evolved tremendously, and yet our syllabuses in Zambia are still relatively dated. Um I will add, so my parents opened a school um around about maybe about four years ago now as well. So uh in Sumbu Village, and um my dad had visited a school and he saw the state, this school was being privately run in um a chicken run. And he was just like, This both my parents were like, this is not how you know this this should be done. And so they took it upon themselves and they created, they'd already had a church building, and they used this church building to then uh convert it to a school. So at the weekend it was a church, and then in the week it became a school. And it was very funny on the one hand, because my dad would be so frustrated with the teachers that we had. But again, you know, these people, these people were coming with their certificates. I'm a qualified teacher, and he's just like, this standard is just, you know, it's terrible. And I just said to him, lower your standards, you know. But what I said also was that what you're doing is supporting these teachers to elevate their standards because they're starting to see your expectations as the owner of the school, and so they will rise up to meet those standards. And the school now has 300 students, and you if you see these kids, I mean they're so adorable, they're so driven, they want to learn.

SPEAKER_06 32:26

You you can always just see a star as well, you know, and there's some kids that really stand out, and and you you have a peace in um in northern province, and in Sumbu is far far off under now in Sama District, like you're going to Kaputa, is so far away, but it's such a beautiful place, especially near Lake Tanganyika, something that can be a booming place. You know, again that speaks to the huge potential in our country. I I I on agriculture, I I think that it can be a boom for my for our country, a mass employer. Um of course we need to mechanize it. Currently, you cannot, you know, when you take the trip, for example, from Serange to Mpika, you find these vast empty lands, but there will be a hut. You can even they've just done an acre. Then there is this entire bush that hasn't been done. Why? Because we haven't mechanized our farming, we haven't modernized our farming. Imagine if that farmer sitting on that small hut with so much land, but just cultivating around their hut, if they had uh some form of mechanization, including a you know uh a tractor. India is very good at these small tractors. We can revolutionarize the agricultural space, we can be a food basket for Africa. But I think that government and its policies have been such a letdown, because we just restrict ourselves to uh a small program like a FIC program. We need, in my view, to revolutionarize, modernize, mechanize farming, also bring the technology. I've seen the farmers here in uh in the United States that he can send machinery in thousands of hectares and the machinery do the job without a human being. Drones uh, you know, uh uh uh do the pesticides and the mechanized autonomous tractors do the job. Of course, that's very far advanced. But for our people, just moving them away from the hoy to some form of mechanized farming, whether it will be donkeys and then tractors, I think that would be a move. Mining, I think it's we we we the leaders have been allowed down to our people because we give free hand to these multinationals, that free hand they don't need. Um I thought I could respond to the issue of of mining. Mining should be if it's our mainstay, it constitutes 70% of our exports. So it should constitute 70% of our revenue. But how come when it comes to revenues around 5-10% to our GDP, yet it's the main exporter of up to 70%? So those misalignments, I see them as a result of poor policies, corruption, and many things. What are your reflections on that?

SPEAKER_00 35:32

You you explained um an extreme on one end of our agriculture and an extreme on the other end of agriculture. And for us to try and even find a way of coming to a middle ground on that is extremely difficult. And it's exactly the point I was making that we are so far behind on so many things if you look at the rest of the world. And look, there's there's a there's a sense that um I was I was coming back from Mansa and uh we were driving at 4 a.m. And it was around about the time that people were, it was in December, so everyone I think was planting maize at the time. It was good to see at various pockets along the way was as we were coming, groups of 30 people, and they were out and they were doing their planting. And these were relatively near the road. So you can see that people do it, but again, it's it's basically still subsistence farming, right? It's enough for us to grow for ourselves, and that's all that they they can do. So that can be down to two things. I don't have the land and I don't have the money to buy extra grain to be able to plant more, to be able to sell it even in the local market. So it's very difficult to expect people with nothing, with no access to a government to be able to go and knock on the door and say, excuse me, how are you going to help me? It's something that people don't know how to do. They simply accept the way that things are. The other problem we have is, you know, the government talks, ah, there's FISIP, there's this, there's this. People don't know how to go to ask for those things. The people who know are the ones who know how to take advantage, and they are the ones who twist it in a corrupt way. So we've got we've got a very difficult situation there. The other thing I would like to say is we still have a lot of white farmers. You know, you go through farms and you'll see like wires on miles and miles of farmland, and it's owned by a white farmer. Why don't these white farmers do programs to help the local farmers plant their own things or, you know, like local communities or to work with the chiefs in some way like that? So there can be opportunities, but there's still a separation of I'm a farmer, I do this for business, and my focus is the exporting that I'm doing to these two or three or five countries, you know, and that's all they care about. There's no let me help the local communities to even have the farm next to mine, you know, let me take my section of my land, divide it up, and give it to these farmers, and then I will buy from them what they produce. You know, there's you can always try and find a way, but the problem is everyone is self-centered, making money for themselves. So that's the difficulty that we have in that sense. When it comes to the mines, I know a lot of people who are really trying to be become the artisan miners and they are being stopped, or there's still a sense of like it's a rough industry, you know, like uh it can be quite violent. And you have you have the Chinese who you can say that they're going through the right routes, but they still are going to the artisan uh miners and saying, I'll give you this much, because they know uh a ton is$13,000, but I can give you know this one$5,000 and then I've you know I've got it for a cheaper price. So how they manipulate the situation is the problem. And how the government exercises their support is also a problem. You can't just open a program and say, eh, come to us. You have to encourage people in better ways to come. You know, I I this is a very random thing to say, but I don't know if you remember when the AIDS epidemic took off. The way everywhere you went, there was a billboard. Every village had someone educating them about safe sex. The education was forced upon people that fight, people learnt that it is not good to have unprotected sex. This is a dangerous uh disease. People are dying, and that changed, and and that I believe really helped to change our country. We don't have that aggressive nature of educating and helping people to become better or to achieve the things that we think we want people to do. If there is if there is the CDF fund, how do you go go to a door, knock on the door? There is this fund. Would you like to apply? Get someone to do something like that. Not everyone goes on the internet. So, how do we find ways to be more aggressive with the way that we get our message out to people?

SPEAKER_06 40:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

I feel like I went on other rants there.

SPEAKER_06 40:06

If farming is uh important, uh it should reflect in uh in policies like that and in awareness like that, and especially the education, probably we should learn more about other than entrepreneurship, other than innovation. We should also learn about um you know farming and mining. Uh, you know, government the success of governments from Opia Banda have set up what are called farm blocks. Nansanga farm block in central province, Luswish farm block on the Copper Belt, in Kawambo, um uh in Western province, all these places now have a farm block that has been set aside, up to 100,000 hectares of land set aside. But there is nothing happening in these farm blocks for one simple reason. Because the government hasn't taken the infrastructure of roads, you know, of power, and of water and other amenities. This is to attempt to because we only have a few, like you said, a few uh commercial farmers. They number under 1,500, by the way. And they're all located just around Mukushi, you know, Chisamba, Lufuanyama, Choma, Kalomo, very few areas. But we have all these areas. In fact, the statistics are very damning. We are only using 10% of our arable farmland. Only 10% of it. Yet that's where our biggest potential is.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Sorry to interject, but this is an issue I have. All these previous ministers who gave themselves land or managed to acquire land, why do you just keep land and do nothing with it? Start farming on it. You've given yourself hundreds of hectares of land, do something with it.

SPEAKER_06 41:50

Yeah, yeah. The issue of debt. Our country doesn't like debt. Every businessman loves debt because it grows business. But our citizens don't like debt. And you can't, you can't you can forgive them because in 1991 we had accumulated a huge debt of seven billion dollars, yet our economy was small, under three billion dollars. Of course, now it's different. Our economy is far larger, and our debt GDP to you know to debt ratio is is is quite it's not like it was in 1991. But our people remember the damage that that old debt did. I played one of your videos where you were analyzing the issue of debt uh and just speak to debt. Do we need debt?

SPEAKER_00 42:50

So we've got different types of debts, right? We've got individual people's personal debts, and then we've got country debts. Uh, that seven billion debt that you mentioned, um, you may recall it was a forgiven amount. Remember, you well, it was around about when I was in the UK, and actually what happened was um in the Western world, people were starting to say, why do these African countries have such a large amount of debt? Is it not us that caused this debt? And as a result of that, the um countries forgave those debts. So it wasn't like we paid off that debt, correct? But then subsequently, we commute, we we accumulated debt again, and it was an easy way to get money for infrastructure um and to um show the country money, right? It looks great, um, and this is something that I do have an issue with that we are accumulating debt, um, and the medical debt I'll come back to, but we're accumulating debt, but we never Put the money into things that make money. We put them into things that are a cost to the country. So all we're doing is we're costing ourselves. And I said this, I think, on the episode about the money that PF had um borrowed, that uh uh you know, the IMF agreement that UPND has had to resolve and so on. And and but my issue is still that even though they've managed to get this restructuring, those hospitals don't generate an income. And as a result, we're simply adding money into something that is accumulating money, not generating income. So we can never use that money to pay the debt itself. So this is the big problem that Zambia has. If you're going to accumulate a debt, make sure it will eventually generate revenue for you. Now, you could say some of the highways that are being built, in theory, all these tolls, because Zambia likes tolls because it generates money, um, those tolls are at least bringing in that income. But also you'll you'll end up limiting the travel of people because not everyone can regularly go through these places because of these tolls. And there's one too many tolls, you know. Like, let's be sensible about it. It just becomes a revenue generating thing. And as you know, the trucks that are going through the roads, which the trucks are damaging the roads, which means the roads are going to need fixing every three to five years, every election cycle, basically. And as a result of that, we end up with these damaged roads and the trucks having to pay all this money every time they go through the tolls, but that money doesn't go back in the road. So these are the things that are costing the country as opposed to generating revenue. Um, we don't have a railway system. I don't understand why we're, I know we recently had the agreement that was redone, I think it's to improve the Tizara railway. Hopefully, we'll see some of those trucks moved into the rails, and the roads should remain for smaller vehicles rather than these um heavy goods that are on the truck on the roads. When I came back from Mansadia last time, there were four trucks overturned, you know, and and we now proposing a 24-hour economy. We're going to have trucks on the road all the time if that's going to be the situation. But so my point is we have to generate income with these loans that we're getting, not simply just putting them into a hole where money disappears. And the same should be said for people's personal loans that they're getting. So I also started up a loan company uh called Chimpempa Money Loans, uh, and I lend out money to people. I I was people would ask me for money, and then it was like, why am I doing this for free? Let me make this a business. So then I started to lend it under the business name. And when I look at what people borrow money for, it's like, ah, turaamukunwa. So turafa six pin. You know, so you're like, yeah, guys. So you've got people who want to use the money to enjoy themselves. But I've also had people who are I've got money coming in.

SPEAKER_06 47:13

I'm glad that you are in that space and I have a very serious question there. Uh public service workers are heavily indebted, they owe nearly everyone. Sometimes, you know, they they they they find smarter ways of ensuring that they get those micro loans. Sometimes they hide the details of their level of indebtedness because they are rules. But they are highly indebted. Since you are in the space, what do you think should be should be done? Really because you have these competing issues. Our people really need access to finance. It's natural, it's normal everywhere. But in our country, it's something we are learning. First, you are either subjected to the Shylocks, and in the normal, normal micro lenders and lenders like yourself, there's just this difficult space. Just speak to that, and now we can resolve the crisis of this overburdened loans that our public service workers have.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

It's understanding how to manage money. And you said it earlier, we're not educated on how to manage money. Uh, everybody has been through a stage of I have taken out too many loans. You know, it's very important that I pay for this or I pay for my wedding, or whatever it is that people want to pay for. But the problem is borrowing in Zambia, people like to borrow, but paying back, it's like blood out of a stone. Now, one of the things I found, which I'm trying to educate people on, is uh, for example, I'll give you an example. A young lady asked if she could borrow 40,000 from me because she was opening uh a nail business. She was moving out of working for someone and she was going to open her own um shop. More than happy to help her. She's my nail tech. I love her. So I was talking to her and she was like, Madam, I went coffee 40 pin. I'll pay you by the end of the year. So this is October last year. And I said to her, When do you think the place is going to be open? Ah, December. Okay. So you think you can pay me in December when you're opening the shop? Does that make logical sense? You know, no, no, I promise you, madam, I can do it. And I said, okay, this is what we'll do. I'll lend you the money for one year. And so that money you'll pay each month an equal amount over that period of time. So when you now open your place, you're still going to have expenses because you still have to now pay the bills, the electricity bills. Maybe you still haven't got all of the equipment that you need for the salon. So you're still going to have outgoing costs. So let's reduce that concept of lend me 40,000, I'll pay you back 40,000 in December. And lend me for uh 40,000 and pay me back 3,800, I think her payment is each month. And so she pays this money on time every time. And she's like, madam, I'm so grateful to you. I don't know how I would have managed without that loan. So that's point number one. Don't borrow 100% of a loan and try and pay back 120, 30% of that loan. It's impossible. Ask for a payment plan over a period of time. Three months, six months, whatever it is that's manageable for you. So that's what a lot of people don't understand in Zambia. And I don't know if if the loan sharks, if that's also the model that they take. But the other thing I've done is a low interest rate. I charge 12% on the loans that I give out because it's a realistic interest rate and then spread over a long period of time. It doesn't feel painful. So that's what I try and educate people to have. But there's a lot of educating that I have to do whenever people ask for the money, because I always have to ask, what is it for? Why, what do you plan to? Some people want to pay uh to buy a house. Like I said, it's an investment that's not going to pay you back. So you're putting all the money into something, but you're not generating extra revenue on your actual income that you have. The problem is people don't generate more than they make. If you're a standard person with a$4,000,$6,000 a month income, you're not going to generate any more. The price of meaning meal is going up.

SPEAKER_06 51:28

Just to interrupt about type of investments we make. I think that's where we need a lot of education and also first structural changes in our own economy. You know we have um we build houses. They take a lot of money to build those houses, whether it's flats, but the rental income is extremely low. It will be a 5,000 coach, a 10,000 coach. Money you can't even recover even in a period of five years. I think that's why mortgages exist in the Western world, where you are paying back in a period of 20 to 30 years. So you cannot borrow a loan and say, I want to build a house and I'll pay you back in six months. It's just not possible. It's just not possible. And uh we believe in the dead assets, as they call them, as you call them, you financial experts. Because if I have a house, I would rather spend two million in that house and live in it than invest that money, for example, on the stock exchange. Because I don't have the financial education about it. I don't have the financial education that instead of taking this two million quacha and buying bonds at central bank, which would pay me maybe more money than rent or income. I don't have that education. So cool, cooler, cool after me dadada. So I think there is a lot of things that need to be done.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

100%. And you know, uh dot com uh for those people who do uh follow uh the Lusaka Stock Exchange, dot com uh as is Zambia.com.com Zambia has been very successful uh with their recent floating. I think it was in December when they floated on the stock exchange. So sometimes you have to self-educate, just see what other people are doing, what they're talking about, and then try and follow those models. Um, obviously be careful with uh scammers as well, but there there are opportunities out there um to invest in other areas. But you I always say Zambians are me too. Me too, I want to do a tomato farm. Me too, I want to build a house, me too, I want to buy a farm. They don't actually have business acumen. And so in the end, although they do it, it never works for them because it's not their actual um mind uh process, it's not that they're not educated in it, and they don't self-educate as well. That's another big problem. People want someone else to answer their questions for them, but they don't self-educate. Like, okay, if I'm about to go into this, um, I've never built a house before. Um, I've got a small plot of land. How do I actually build? How much will it cost me to build? What type of home do I want to build? Do I need foundations? You know, what they'll do is kind of pass it on to somebody else and hope that that person does it in the correct way for them. And we know Zambia, nine times out of ten, someone will take half of that money, steal it in some way from you because you simply hand it over with no self-knowledge, you know. So you have to be firmer, self-educate first. In whatever you want to do, self-educate. There's knowledge everywhere, you know, YouTube, um, uh, all of our new um AI apps these days, you know. Simply put it in, I want to build a house in Zambia. Tell me the top things that I need to be able to do in order to achieve this. If I have a budget of 50,000 to build a house, tell me what I should do first. Gemini will answer all of this for you. So, self-education, I think, is a key thing. We cannot always rely on the government to help us. They will do the basic, basic requirements. You know, they'll they'll do the minimum of your your you've you've got basic warmth and it's like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You've got the basics. After that, you're on your own. You have to self-educate. So yeah.

SPEAKER_06 55:21

Before I open phone lines, see if there are questions for you. And um, you know, uh my audience, of course, is highly politicized, I like the heavy politics, but today we are different with Tanya. She's giving us perspectives from a very, very different angle. We have a nation that lies literally in a perilous situation. We are at a crossroad. We need to make defining decisions for our country. The Human Rights Watch International just released a report in New York just uh the other week. The picture they painted is a very dire picture in their country report that we've descended to an autocratic state. You have a leadership that has hijacked institutions of democracy, the police, uh, the judiciary, parliament, the electoral commission of Zambia. There is doubt whether Zambia will have uh you know free, credible, and fair elections. You have an economy where, like you stated, up to 60 percent of that economy has uh people living in extreme poverty. Things literally have broken down. Every institution, something is not working. You apply for a passport today, it takes you six weeks to six months to one year just to get your passport. The country is at a crossroad. The diagnosis is very different. Others are attributing it to our type of politics, others to the leadership, others to the exclusion. Good people like you just stay away from the politics. What are your reflections as we go to elections? And what can we do really to win back our country and put it on a on a hopeful path to development, you know.

SPEAKER_00 57:13

I will say you sound like a politician. Yes, they are. The problem is we think that politics is going to solve our problem, and it isn't. It's the individual Zambian who's going to make the change. When I make the change for myself and my local community, that's when I can change the rest of the country. It goes out from from me first. It doesn't come from the top down. Nobody in at the bottom gets to enjoy what the what the top of the government is really enjoying. They don't get to hear about the different uh agreements. These 1001 MOUs, we seem to like signing MOUs in Zambia. All the MOUs on the new business opportunities that are coming in, all the new MOUs on loan agreements, which we don't get to hear about until the contract is signed. We don't get to participate in it. You know, all of those things don't get down to the people until that um agreement has been signed. So in the end, don't think that what they're signing is is for the micro level. It will always be for the macro level and it's for the greater good of the country. It will never trickle down to you as an individual in a way that is that substantive. So as an individual, your one thing that you have is your vote. If you really want to have a say, cast your vote in the right way. Secondly, make sure that what you do for your work, right? Don't simply accept I am a volunteer. Um, I've always said to people that I meet, leave, go and get a paying job. Stop being a doctor. It's not paying you. You know, find a job that's going to pay you. You have a family that you need to look after. You're busy taking money off your mother who hasn't, you know, she's already incapacitated herself. Family scenarios are the things that are important. Do not be dependent on others and don't think that the government will help you. Help yourself, help your local community and grow out from there. And I think that's what Zambians need to remember. Now, obviously, we do have politicians and they're speaking on our behalf, but also listen with half an ear, right? And this is what I always say on the on um uh the episodes that I'm doing. Think deeper. If someone says to you, I'm going to come and make a change, don't just go, yes, a la chinja, mwala mona. No, what exactly are you going to change? Currently, we're waiting for the different um political parties to release their manifestos, right? I have to say, I remember when I looked at the UPND manifesto when they came into power, because I was quite excited when they came into power with the way the whole elections happened. And I looked at the manifesto and I was like, well, that was boring. You know, it's like you say the same things every time. We need to raise people out of poverty. We need to improve our mining and agriculture sector. We need to, yes, we know all these things. You've been doing that for the past 30 years of political parties. Come up with something new and innovative. Look at how other countries are doing it. What is the UK doing that's different? Look at America. I mean, you know, he's Trump has taken over the world and totally gone against everything. But he did have that um 2025 plan, which everyone ignored, and here we are now seeing the outcome of the plan, the project 2025. And now we're seeing the outcome of that plan. So you have to be able to think further than just I've cast my vote, valan saving a valan per empia. The other problem I will say is uh which I called on the episode Belly Politics.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:05

The narrative has been spoilt by you are you are right, by us the politicians. Everyone is saying, sit down, I'll bring you a job to your doorstep. Sit down, I'll bring you fertilizer to your doorstep. Sit down, I'll bring you a road, a crossing point, I'll create a dam for you. We have these lies that are told every day. Even when we know that the MP is a mayor legislator, he can't bring development to your area. But we've allowed our politics to evolve into making our citizens inactive, where our citizens look up to government for everything. Just go on community radio stations or community TV stations. You will find every community, government younger Nepal. Government Younger Nepal. The belief has been instilled in our people that your political leaders are your saviors. They are coming to bring salvation to you. When in fact there's it's supposed to be upside down. It's a citizens, you know, that should deliver that change, that should ensure that things are done in our communities. So I agree with you on the narrative there. That uh our people we we have to append the narrative. The the work is with the citizen, not with the leaders that come to clearly tell us lies and then we believe those lies. And then we get annoyed that they didn't deliver on the lies that they didn't deliver.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:37

Yeah, but you know what I was going to say is the prop the other problem we have is this belly politics, right? Naysa mukuria, you know, and of the people that we have who let's say don't have a good income or a consistent income, because that's the other thing that's a problem in Zambia. People don't have a consistent income. Today, maybe you've received lots of money, the next six months, not angwe coming through your door. So you have to work out how you're going to survive over that period. Now, everybody who comes into power is able to give their people jobs. And so if you know a politician, you're very lucky. If you're related to a politician, you're very lucky because invariably you're going to get some kind of a job within government. And so those are the people, belly politics, vakuri shawant. So that's why we keep supporting our parties. No, no, no, PF is the one. No, PF is the one. No, UPND is the one. And that's the other problem we have. You eat for four years. When that political party loses power, you want the other political party to come back into power. And that's why people keep saying, but PF, Vala, wake it up, wake it up. Because they want to eat, because that's who they ate with, because they haven't eaten with UPND. And so this is the problem that we'll have. When UPND is off the throne, the same thing will happen. Vala, wake it up, over UPND, because that's who fed me. Don't rely on your political party to feed you. We need to get the jobs to the people. We need to allow them to self-elevate so that they know I'm not eating off that table anymore. What I want today, and I said this in my last video, I want sewers. I want drains built in my community. That's what I need. I want my house, I'm trying to upscale my house, and I'm still my sewage is going outside my house. Why? This is 2026. Why do we not have sewage systems in Zambia?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:34

Yeah, wonderful. My last question before I invite callers and callers will be able to interact with us. I'll not keep Tanya for a long time. So if you have a question, you should begin your calling now. If you have any question, your dahlions with politics. Are you going into politics? Are you going to participate in any constituency? I saw your dahliance with um somehow with UNIP. Have you decided to go into politics or you remain an expert and a commentator?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

I was going to do a joke and I was going to be like, I'm running for president because everyone is running for president, you know? So uh no. The the reality is that I know I am not equipped to run a country. Um, I know that a lot of politicians are not equipped to run Zambia, and that's part of the problem that we have. That I'll say this, I don't know if you recall. I remember when P uh UPND came into power, everyone was new don, you don't, la Chinje Fintu. It took two years, I think, and everyone was like, What are these people doing? And it felt like they just didn't know what they were doing. There was no momentum, we didn't understand what they were doing. Those who used to eat before were not sure if they could eat, so everything was quiet. And the reality for me is that we had a lot of inexperienced people. Coming into power. Now, if you've never had a job before, a proper job, and if you've never run a country, let alone run a business, you know, if you've never run 2,500 hospitals or 15,000 schools.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:16

Just hold it. Some calls are coming in. Call us, please call. We are hosting Tanya and let's hear your views. Hello, caller. Please tell us your name and where you're calling from. We are hosting Tanya Malama Fuchs. Make your contributions.

SPEAKER_12 1:06:31

Thank you, Ambassador Mwamba. This is Sunya Nguedani. Uh but Tanya, uh, today is a good program. It's good to hear ideas and your ideas, what you're saying. I've always said it, and this is always what pains me. 62 years of independence. You still have people staying under Tabakwe, I'm a patriot train, they don't have access to good water. And from your program, what I've heard is like all what this government that come in, Bala to we paf yeah, then at the end of the day, they make us believe that they are the ones that can improve our lives. My question to you, Tanya, I just want you to ask and say something. What in the five years of the UPND government, what good they have done for Zambia so that even if a next government comes in, they should follow on those ideas. I've liked this program, Lamwamba. Tanya is giving us so many good things that we can do and implement back home. Thank you, Ambassador Mwamba.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:35

Thank you very much. Callers, if you have uh Tanya, I'll throw that question to you quickly.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:41

Thank you so much. Um, that's a great question. Thank you very much, and thank you for the kind words. Um, you know, I'm sorry, but you have to give the government credit for the IMF restructuring. It takes a lot for them to have built the trust with the IMF and for the IMF to have been consistent and lenient with the country. Now, it's the follow-through that the country has to do. It's so easy to say, what have they done? What have they done? You know, there are a lot of small things. We always want the one big thing. It's like we want we want God to come down and solve the problem in one hit. It doesn't work like that. Everything is small and cumulative, and then gradually over time. And as I was just about to say before the call came in, that I had felt that the government was very slow in getting their momentum going. But once they did, we got the IMF deal that came through. We had the currency now uh stabilizing, looking good, and our uh GDP uh rate was also very good. So the things are happening, but the problem is it's happening right at the end of their term. So the problem is as people we go, Nish much today, but we haven't the pro the we haven't seen that work that led up to this situation. And I've always said that I think this party should actually, UPND should be given the next term because the following five years is when they'll see the culmination of that. And I say that because of this. When somebody opens a business, you never become a successful business in the first three years or five years. Most businesses in the UK go out, um, 60% of businesses go out of business in the first three years. So if you're going to look at the country as a business, effectively they were learning how to run the country, they managed to get a certain standard in place, and now they have to grow from that. You could even say Rwanda took the same principle because um Kagame, not refused, but Kagami is still in power, having gone past the term that he was actually supposed to, and look at the state of the country as a result of that constant stability that they have. So there that's that's my that's my thank you for that.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:55

You know the trouble, the trouble is developing a country is a long-term process. Our politicians have made it a 24-hour process, and that's why they attract so much recrimination and anger by the time they are clocking five years. Um I like my former boss, Dr. Frederick Chiluwa, who came in 1991 and just said it's not possible, it's going to be a lot of pain. He introduced, you know, that word, you have to tighten your belts. Our politicians are not honest. They look at the scale of our problems, and then they'll tell you that they'll do it in 24 hours, they'll do it in the next 60 days, they will do it in the hundred days. So the anger they face after five years, it's not that they haven't developed our country, it's that they told a lie, and our people are holding them up to the lie. You said you will do this in two years, in three years, in five years, and you have not done it. But truly, the process of development is extremely long term, it's not short. And the trouble our country faces will require, you know, the reforms required, in my view, from legal, constitutional, structural, just the changes that are required in our country, and then mindset of our people is immense. It's not something that can even achieve in five years. But we the politicians simply say, vote for me, you will have a good life tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:31

This is exactly the point, you know, and and this is also why I was mentioning the manifestos.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:48

Hello, caller please tell us your name and where you are calling from. We are hosting Tanya Malama Fuchs. She's uh uh a marketing expert and public commentator.

SPEAKER_10 1:11:59

Good evening, Ambassador. Um my name is Anonymous from the land of AI.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:05

Anonymous, make your contributions.

SPEAKER_10 1:12:08

Yes, it's uh my my voice is known on this platform, so even if this uh program is not so political today, I still want to remain anonymous just in case someone can compare and contrast and come after me. And why is that important? Because we make very strong comments on this show. We try to speak close to power and they go after us. There are some of us who are on a list right now. Why am I saying this? The development of the of a nation, the development of a nation is not just about the economy, it's not just about business, it's not just about infrastructure, it is about the rights of the people of that nation. The UPND has failed not because they are bad economists, but because they are bad custodians of the constitution. We have seen people uh uh you know uh abducted and tortured by individuals who were categorically. We've seen that in this regime. We have seen uh a young lady coming from the USA just because she was having a podcast, she lands in Zambia, she's in jail. We've seen a young man who's really mentally ill, okay, and he goes on ranting and insulting and is locked up. Another guy that they share the same platform insulting each other because it's supposed to UPND is free out there. It is these constitutional foundations that the UPND has failed to hold down. We saw how what the what the what the um uh what what what the what the president actually confessed to uh did the mingle at all uh to get Bill Seven through. Okay, we've seen that happen. And what does that lead to? It leads to a country whose uh constitution is not people driven. When you're talking about issues to do with drainage and so on and so forth, you're talking about uh access to health, you're talking about uh access to education, and you're talking about all these things. If we are not applied into a people-driven constitution, we are relying on the goodness of a life of a man. We are relying on the intelligence of an individual. We can't run a country like that. We need a country that is run according to the constitution, even when the president is incapacitated in one way or another. The nation should be able to function. Why? Because the constitution is set appropriate. And so the reason why UPNB cannot and does not deserve another five-year term is because of those things. It's not because they have they failed to do business, it's because they failed to avoid serious the things that matter the most. There are things that matter more than the economy, the rights of people, the constitution, the sacredness of the constitution of the government has not held the constitution with the level of sacrifice that it deserves. They've gone on to openly do things, you know. You've seen what has happened in the Lungu issue, where they've held a widow in mourning for nine months. Those are human rights. We've seen how the the so-called illegal miners, I call them uh uh uh uh you know, uh untrained miners, how they were moved from home, how people died in that area. That is a human rights. So we could praise them for being both smart, but really they have not been constitutionally upright. The integrity of this regime, you know, it is much to be desired because the constitution has not been upheld, and that's the reason. So it might be a good idea to say, oh, UPND should be given five years. This is not a business. A nation is not a it's not a business, it's not entrepreneurship, you know, you know, endeavor. It is people's lives, it is a democracy.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:12

Thank you, thank you. Thank you. I've got another caller waiting. Quickly wind up. Yes, thank you, Ambassador.

unknown 1:16:18

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:19

Thank you very much. Oh, Tanya, strong voice for you there. Hello, caller, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from.

SPEAKER_11 1:16:26

Thank you, Mamba. I'm calling from Zambia. Yes, I'm happy to be on this. I'm happy that I've gotten through this uh discussion.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:33

Thank you.

SPEAKER_11 1:16:33

I'm very excited that you have brought a call, uh a person like Tanya. She sounds quite authentic. I've never heard of her, but um for the first time I was hearing, I hear you in here every day. But this guest, but the other guest you had yesterday, uh Changal, made my day, and they make me feel um really proud of it. We have Zambians who have good sanity. I wanted to say one thing. I heard Tanya talk about uh that uh yes, uh UPND must be given a chance because in business, business can take three years to get running and just get organized so they can start making profits. Yes, truly, that's very true, and she's right. I also totally agree. But we have a situation in Zambia. I will give a typical example of a man who has married a woman, and uh that woman they're staying together, but he beats the wife, he beats the wife, no peace in the home. He buys her a nice car, nice clothes, that woman has no peace. Eventually, all those things which the present she's getting from that man, they will still not they will have no meaning. She would rather have the peace. So I find that in Zambia. I should I just I can say anything to contribute to this, but not where I'm always thinking even this call, I'm making who's going to tell me who's going to kill me. I need to be free. I remember in uh time contribute to photo. But not now. Why am I so scared? This is the piece which has been taken away from many citizens who actually are like in my position. And that's why we need to be put as a nation. We need to start afresh. I think the mindset, Tanya is very correct about the mindset of people trying to be voted because somebody's going to feed them when they vote for this party, and then they know that they'll be benefiting from that party. We need to put people because we want them. I'll give you an example. So we need a leader, we need a leadership which has got a heart for the people. So a good leader has a heart for the people, a compassionate heart. I'll give you the greatest leader that we have ever had in the Bible. Jesus, when he came on earth, he provided good leadership. He he fed people, he hewed people, he had compassionate for everyone. Even when the 5,000 came, he fed them and then took care of them. But again, he wasn't just interested in feeding them, he showed them the way they should really live.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:42

Thank you. So we need a leader. I think your point has been made very clear. I like your analogy. I like your analogy that this government is like um a good husband who provides financial benefits but is an abuser. Tanya will have a go at that. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:17

Great to have you, Madam Tanya. I just have a question for you. What is your comment on the killing of the woman in Kalumbilla? And then also, what is your comment on the effect diaspora has in um in restoring the democracy we have in Zambia? Our comment on that, uh, on the Kalumbilla incident. We have seen the killings in Northwestern province, and myself, I I blame this on the like because Northwestern is the province that has been left behind. Despite it being the new copper belt, the wealth is coming from there supporting the country, but the people are left behind, you know, just killing a woman brutally. She's not the first woman. Another two, three people were killed. We saw also the police kill people in the same province. And uh we see police swing in action for political activities and to care with so-called illegal minors. But where are the hundreds of police who are hired when they need to protect a woman's life? On the diaspora, you being in diaspora, I think you should join voices with people who are calling for change because this government, out of the 10-point plan, they have only delivered one point, actually, not even at 100%, which is education. They have delivered free education at maybe 30%. So I think it is the duty of diaspora to hold this government accountable because there is a cyber law. I'm going to give an example. When I was in high school, my friends, I had a friend from Zimbabwe and a friend from South Africa, and their parents were in Zambia because they were being persecuted, politically persecuted. And the diaspora, the diaspora from Zimbabwe and South Africa are the people who saved the who pushed to help the independence in these countries. And my friends, they went back to their countries once independence was fought. So I'm just appealing to you and many other people in diaspora to join the this fight to eliminate this view once-only government. Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:56

Thank you very much. Tanya, your comment about the UPND has uh attracted attention. Hello, Cola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:06

Good evening, Ambassador Mwamba.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:07

Good evening.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:09

Thank you. She suspended Panya Buti. She can say one of the school beso. But you're file in Mamuchalo, as well as the Massanga, and quite it's already quite a mobunchi. I'm a citizens by votable, Tabale Bendeltu, Banettia government, yeah, repair, a bobashi won't she by some charumes, it lay it to a tabality pillar tax. Muay Piracalukila, business what tampa ticket was makwewire, mkesa to waste a shaku, or mkesa to push a shaku Kung Congology. Number, take on definitive water. Number Pelakato, restructuring. Number, in this parliament younger wapu sanguapu. Because we are like the first term, first five years, that one show. But never quant show on a parliament, their parliament anymore. Let's legislature, the judiciary, the executive shows, the person that have heard you sound that thing for wheel. That legislature, the judiciary, na executive, three. In fact, two years. And I won't need to change. Change opposition, call a fear. No, to take two landwaitisha umwela. So my opposition demographic to fiank every show. You see, when we speak more than the culturally, circumcision. But in Fafuma tells you Zambia, Kumma circumcision Tatulupula, Tabalupula. But Japanese culture, yes, we said Balalumula.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:34

I want to take two, three calls. Then I allow Tanya too. But I think your point has been made very clear. Okay, I think so. I think she she was. Yeah. Hello, colour. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and be brief.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:07

I'm calling from Zambia.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:10

Gigi, make your contributions quickly. Yo, thank you. I want to take just all the calls in quick succession so she can answer and then we wind up the program. Allo Cola, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and give give us your contributions.

SPEAKER_09 1:30:08

Good afternoon. This is Dr. K.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:11

Dr. Calonde. Yes, Dr. Calonde, make your contributions.

SPEAKER_09 1:30:14

Yes, um, I'm very just I feel like he um a bit disappointed that uh um our um guest today uh seems to be uh in no anyway, our perspectives and perceptions are different. Uh uh closing uh third government in so many ways. Uh to start with the uh datal structuring. Data structuring comes with uh a lot of implications. Yes, my one of my sisters has mentioned guests from Caputa. Can you believe someone from Caputa understands what data structuring is better than the guest in terms of our dog, our dog mulando for chintiken cover guest one?

SPEAKER_06 1:31:08

Just make your views, you know. I protect my guests.

SPEAKER_09 1:31:11

Okay, now for Kumutima, but please respect my guests. The calculations we are debt restructuring are very detrimental to the future of the country in terms of percentage, in terms of how much we are going to pay as interest, and who's going to pay as important? You know that our minerals that are supposed to be the source of poor debt are no longer in our hands. How will this job pay for that? There is also an issue of uh our freedoms. But if you don't have the right to talk to people, you have nothing. I always refer to uh this little movie that was done in the 70s. The little mammoth was not possible. Uh mammoth lost the voice. It changed how we viewed life. It couldn't even be held by the prince. Those are things that we have to understand as humans in terms of the way we handle our lives. Taking away our freedoms, I'm telling you, it is the worst thing that has ever happened to Zambia. And we shouldn't take it like that. We should not take it like that. There must be something wrong. And I'm not going to praise that government, regardless of what I do, I do or not. I'm not afraid of going to Zambia. But I feel at any time, I can go for all of us can be able to do what we lose our rights, we lose our freedom. We lose a lot of things, even the economy that we are building up for our children can be lost in such circumstances. We must be able to say the truth. And I always want to let me just mention one thing. Look at what Dambiso Moyo wrote in that book. Giving you a few coins because of CDF is not going to make your life change. Get your rights and your freedoms, things will be better. Read Zambiso Moyo's book. It's very important for us to understand where we are going.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:01

Thank you, Dr. Calonde. Thank you. Uh from uh uh from Montreal University. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution. Be brief, be brief. Hello, Cola. Oh from Livingston. Yes, quickly make your contribution.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:25

Thank you so much. Uh my greetings to Madam Madam Marisa and I followed the program and um put so much uh information, especially on debt and the management. I know she's not a politician, but uh maybe we try we try to help each other in bringing reality on the table. Mozambia we have a lot of challenges that have resulted due to mismanagement of the of the economy. We've got so much minerals in our country, and the uh some reports were saying government made almost I mean the mines made almost 12 billion dollars. But I don't know how much came to our country of that two billion dollars in Cop. So it's the it's the situation where Charlie you become second. Then we summaria everybody ever quite more, everybody send a staking chart. Because even when you look at um most of the um the the the minimal taxes, uh most of them they are on tax already. So look at the quality of roads they are giving us now. Within a few months, so uh thing that this government must extend, I think it is something that you must reconsider because it's not just about the economic development, but everything is now almost broken down in this country. There's too much regionalism, there's too much division, in short. So Malama, uh let us help each other so that we can reburate this country from whatever we are going through. We are in Zambia, we we can we can feel the we can feel the the the pain. I thank you so much.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:10

No, she she she knows very well she also comes to Zambia, so do not exclude her. She knows what's happening in our country also. Hello, Cola, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution. I'm going to take two last calls and I revert to Tanya Malama Fuchs and we begin to wind up. Yes, Cola, please make your contributions.

SPEAKER_08 1:37:31

Good evening, good evening, Ambassador. Good evening, Abusuru, but I've forced myself to speak on this program.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:37

I hope we can hear you.

SPEAKER_08 1:37:41

Yes, if you can hear me well and good, but uh I just I'm disappointed. Because I was expecting the guest to explain for you to bring for you to be good in the public. Are the people going to pay for the government? I don't pay after I don't know how many years, but I don't think this is the right way for you to come and tell us that um praise the government and even giving them a second time.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:55

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Hello, caller, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contributions. Your last caller for now. Yes, Mamong Kong. Thank you, thank you very much. Malama, let me bring you in. Um, of all your contributions for one hour, those last remarks to give the UPND uh a chance, enlisted, you know, the state of our country, like I said, it's at a crossroad, and you you probably have heard the hang the anger uh uh against those remarks. Let's begin to conclude. First, maybe answer any of the callers that have asked you this question. Speak to them.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:35

So thank you, everybody who phoned in. And as is the way of the world, not everyone will like me, and for various reasons. Some may feel like I didn't answer the questions. What I will point out is a lot of the questions you asked, if you go to my TikTok account, I have answered all of your questions. And all of you who think I'm a UPND supporter, you will see how much I slate them on my TikTok account as well. You are unfair. Exactly. I hold them accountable. That's the difference with what I'm doing. I'm not asking them to be my president, my party of the day. I am holding the work that they are doing accountable. Now you have to understand that just because they've done something and you don't like it, it doesn't mean that it was their choice that it ended up that way. The IMF restructuring, they don't dictate those terms, right? So there's things that happen on the world stage that affect how they respond and how they end up with the final deal that they have. So please, of all you people that have uh that don't like me, go and watch my channel. And the one thing I always say is think deeper. Don't start at the question you've asked me. I want you to go to the next level down and the next level down and answer deeper questions than the ones that you have asked me. But so um, there are a lot of questions, and um, I will say, you know, AI, uh, diddy, a lot of people were expressing their own personal opinions. You have every right to. If you don't like the current government, that's your opinion. It's your life, how you've lived it, and how you've ended up in uh the decisions that you have about your governments. That's entirely up to you. Um, the lady who asked me to speak to the situation of the uh the the lady that was brutally killed uh this week, really. Um I don't like answering on things like that for various reasons. I think there's um there's a there's a cultural element that's attached to that. There's a uh sexual element that's attached to that. Um I think this whole concept of witchcraft and juju in Zambia, it's it's so prevalent and so so insidious and evil. Um I don't touch on certain subjects, and so that's why I I wouldn't go into that anymore. Obviously, I don't think it was a one, I think it was wrong what happened. I hope that the people get found and prosecuted. Um, but I will be touching on that um on a video that I do on my channel, but I don't, it's not relevant here for me. Um I think um, you know, people who are disappointed in me, again, you have every right to be. You guys that are disappointed, you want a big bang solution. Someone is going to come and save you and give you a miracle. It's not gonna happen. The world does not give out miracles in large doses. If we're gonna have miracles, the previous government would have given us a miracle, the government before that would have given us a miracle. Look at all of your previous governments, they've done more or less exactly the same thing. So that's why I say think deeper as to how we can come up with solutions. And I said it's not about the macro, it's about the micro. What are you going to do for your country and for your community to really impact the changes that you want to see? Um, what else can I say? Gosh, it was a lot, it was quite overwhelming. Uh, a lot of questions. Um, can you think of anything uh that I can pick up on other than that?

SPEAKER_06 1:44:09

The issue of debt, Dr. Calonde, our dear sister from Caputa, uh has a very strong feeling that um debt and debt restructure cannot be celebrated because we are merely shifting the burden to the uh our children. And here we are, instead of bequeathing them with an inheritance, we are pushing debt to them while we consume now, while we celebrate now. For uh both Caputa and Dr. Calonde, I think the string is very clear. You have a very big resource in copper, gold, and ore. And it's being exploited now with tax holders and without paying for it. So, where will the resources come to a debt that you've pushed to the future? So, debt restructuring, in my understanding, I think that was both Caputa's concern and Dr. Calonde.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:02

I think one of the things we lose is when you keep saying debt, debt, debt, please attach a number to that debt, right? We have lots of different types of debts in Zambia. We've got the health debt.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:15

Oh, there I can help you. I I can help you. So let's start with I actually knew.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:21

I meant the callers. Number, don't just always say debt. Don't be generic, be specific with your arguments as well. Yeah, let's start.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:31

Carry on. In 2021, the UPND uh found a foreign debt at$11.9 billion. They are varying figures, but you look at the statistics that were given by Honorable Stumbekum Sokotuane in Parliament in October 2021 and in November 2021. They put a foreign debt at$11.9 billion or$12.6 billion. That foreign debt is sitting at now sixteen point four billion dollars. So four years ago, the debt, five years ago, the debt was at$11.9 billion or$12.6 billion. It's now at 16.4. The domestic debt was 200 and uh it was 178 billion quacha as of 2021. It's now sitting at 252 billion quacha in 2026. Five years later, the debt has grown. And this debt includes not just money owed to contractors and suppliers, but also government debt in at the central bank in um in government bonds and you know. So you have a debt that has ballooned by almost uh in foreign debt, the one that was 12 point something billion, I think has accumulated another 3 billion. The Quacha debt, if you put it varying exchange rate, that's almost 11, 12 billion dollars. People talk talk about total public debt, and you have talked about total public debt. Total public debt in 2021 was around 25 billion dollars. Again, it's varying. There are some other statistics that were now revised in 2022 that show that total public debt was 31 billion dollars. Total public debt now is sitting around 34, 35 billion dollars. So debt has gone up. Repayment periods and service, uh debt service payment is now what has changed as a result of debt restructure. For example, the$3 billion euro bond should have been cleared by 2027. This has been pushed up to 2048. So I think I I this could be a good summary for what we are talking about.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:01

Okay, so I want to just make this a real world scenario, okay? So you come to me, Chimpempa Money Loans, that's my company, okay? And you say to me, Tanya, I want to borrow a hundred thousand. No, let's just say ten thousand quach. I want to borrow 10,000 quacha, okay? And I say, no problem, I'm going to give you that 10,000 at 12%, right? You're in agreement. You love it. Yes, absolutely. You take that money and then you go and let's just say you're actually going to spend that money on medication and an operation that someone has. So this is something that's not generating revenue. So now you paid uh for that medical bill, and now you've got 10,000 plus 12%. You carry on working, and now you have to pay that debt back. And then you come back to me and you say, I don't have the money to pay that. Uh, can I pay you next month? Can I pay you next month? Can I pay you next month? And that debt you default as we did in 2021. You default on that debt. So you have missed many payments as a result of it. Your debt has now ballooned from the 12% plus the defaulting um um uh charges that you also have to pay. So your 10,000 plus 12% plus charges that you need to pay. And you're telling me, in fact, I don't even have the money right now to pay it. So I say to you, okay, we'll do a deal. I'll give you three months without payment, and then after that, you can start paying, and we'll agree a new amount that you pay back instead of paying me the full amount. As we agreed, I'm now going to do a payment plan of$3,000 each month. Okay. Now, you still have the debt, you still have the interest to pay, and you have. Of the expenses as a result of having not paid that debt on time. This is what the government has had to contend with. So when you keep saying debt, debt, debt, understand what debt means. The government cannot pay that money in full. They don't have it. They are not paying, they're not generating enough revenue to pay for your schools, to pay for the mealy meal, uh the fertilizer, all these things that you also want, the FISIP, the CDF, all these things that you want, as well as paying the debt collectors. So you have to be able to say, okay, as a government, the portioning that we're going to do to keep the country running is this much. And to keep the debt payments happening is this much. And they can only do that in agreement with those foreign countries, not with you, because not the payer, not the country.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:55

Tanya, you've put it very well. You've put it very well. Hence the criticism that why are we giving tax holidays in that environment where your revenue is limited? I think that's where the people are concerned. Do we even have the luxury to give the tax holidays?

SPEAKER_00 1:51:15

So I think the other side that we have to remember is at one point we were a high-risk country to invest in. Nobody wanted to bring business to Zambia, right? So, and and we don't encourage our own people to start businesses. One of the worst things about Zambia is trying to set up a business. They make it so difficult. You can invite ministers to the launch of your event. They won't show up unless you have been successful at something else, and then they're there to support you. So when it comes to setting up new businesses from scratch, you have zero support from the country. But what we want to be able to do is say, okay, now how do we make sure that the foreigners keep coming in? Because they have large amounts of money that invariably they bring in. They are employing people that the government is busy giving volunteers zero money. At least these people are paying some of the people, right? If a mine can employ 10,000, that's 10,000 paying jobs. That's 10,000 people paying taxes, as opposed to our doctor volunteers who are not getting paid anything. So we have to give some allowances, and the taxpayer of the people they gave allowances is the one who's then putting money into the coffers. So we have to, as I keep saying, think deeper. It does not stop at that one point. It's not a large amount, but the more people that they bring in to do businesses, like I said, we have so many MOUs. These MOUs that we've got in this country, hopefully that means business at the end of the day. So hopefully, the more of those that we have, at least taxpayers will start paying taxes, even if we don't have the big revenues from the main country. The other problem we have, you notice when they give these tax breaks, what do all of these people do when they get their tax breaks? Five years, seven years later, they leave the country. So I've seen, is it uh it's not ShopRite? I can't remember which company is now exiting.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:11

All the South African companies, you know, the especially the furniture and um and clothes companies like Smart Center, they came in with a five-tax year holiday. In fact, what they did is every five years they closed the shop, and the following day they reopened with the same conditions, another tax-free. Before the government had realized they had been in the country for 20 years, tax-free.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:33

This isn't a UPND only thing. This is all previous governments have done this as well. So that's where you always have to remember to be fair. They didn't start this trend, they're merely following it on and hopefully improving on it by bringing more people in. That's the only difference that the people make, the c the governments make.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:52

Yeah, continue. Sorry. You adjust the question and the answer to the.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:57

Yeah, no, again, like you I don't understand how you can be against the government for having got a debt restructure. Just because it's not money in your pocket, believe me, the country would be so much worse if we had not got that debt restructure. The value of the exchange rate would be so much worse. The value of the revenues coming in would be so much worse. Today, uh copper has actually dropped in value because of the situation in Iran. So we've gone from$13,000 for a ton and it's gone down to$11,000. So now, those people who are not paying now, they definitely will not be paying even more. But the government still has to work out how to make sure your petrol doesn't go up and your mealy meal doesn't go up, but there's no extra income coming into the country. So, how are you not going to at least give them some credit to say, dude, good luck? I hope you solve it because I know I still need to eat. And this is why I say solve your problems first. Make sure you've got a job that pays for your worry.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:59

You are right there. Debt restructuring needed to happen. That's why we had the default in 2020. In fact, if you look back in 2019, Waliang And as Minister of Finance started the debt restructuring and he apportioned it this way. On one side, the Eurobond, which was about$3 billion, he hired Lazar Ferris, a French financial company, to restructure that debt. And then the$5.9 billion in project finance that we owed China, he engaged in bilateral agreement with China. In fact, their first visit to in 2019 to China, China even cancelled the debt that was due for Levi Mwanawasa Stadium,$90 million plus interest, was uh immediately struck off. So debt restructuring didn't start with President Akainde Ichlema under the G20. It started under that government. In my view, uh President Akainde Ichlema did a different route. He submitted himself to the G20 framework where a period where we were not allowed, we were given freehold not to pay our debt, the so-called default. We were the first one in Africa, but 38 other countries joined us because of COVID and because of the crisis that just faced the world. So we were not, we were the first one to default, but 38 other countries in Africa joined us in not servicing our debt under the G20 framework, which President Dagainde Chilema took over. Of course, these are political narratives because it's you know, like free education, I always say, was started by Manawasa, who abolished all fees and only allowed PTA fees. But when the the politicians sing the song, people will not remember that the free education started with Mwanawasa. With Edgar Lung, we reduced those PTA fees, parents, teachers, association fees from 650 quacha to 150. And when President Haka Indechilima came in office, he said, even that 150, I don't want anyone to pay. If we have to follow your mantra, think deep. Then you have to trace where the free education comes from. It literally comes from Manoasa, you know. So I'm agreeing with you. Even on debt restructure, yes, Zambia needed it. Because we had arrived at a place where our debt service was eating into commitment to social and economic investment that we should make for our country, and it became unsustainable. In fact, this attracts the criticism from Dr. Grief Cheloa, who I hosted a few months ago. He said, why is this new government, after debt restructure, paying up to$1.2 billion in debt service, and in 2026 they'll pay another$1.2 billion. 2027 a$900 billion in debt service. What have you restructured? He called it a very expensive restructure, if we are to think deep. Because he says the entire reason why the PF defaulted is that the debt service had reached a$1 billion mark. And everyone agreed that this was uh unaffordable to be done at the expense of the country. So here we are now. After debt restructure, our debt service is minimum one billion dollars a year. Again, the criticism there is valid because the purpose of the debt restructure should have been that we should be paying far, far less than we are paying.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:45

I totally agree with you. And I think we've both covered the debt restructuring, but what I do want to cover also is you know, the debt restructuring is one level that we desperately needed. Then we continue to receive aid as a country, and I know we haven't gone through this, but this is also something else that I cover on my TikTok. That the aid that we receive, we receive so much aid in this country. You think that we would all be rich by now, right? Our medical system should be the best medical system with the amount of aid that we receive. And yet, what happens? Money is being funneled from those um uh the the money that's coming in from the aid, and then it's being funneled out into other channels. Now, this is the point that I want to I keep pulling out when I say you think that I'm a UPND fan. I am really not. Where is the money coming? Where is the money going once we receive these millions and billions of aid into this country? Because how much money do you need to make your economy better? You know, our hospitals should be the top of the class. And yet we have medical. Uh, this week we received a call from a family member in Kabwe. And she had gone to the hospital in Kabwe, which is not far from Lisaka, and she she couldn't get medicine from the hospital because there was no medicine in the hospital in Kabwe. She had to go to the pharmacy to and she had to buy the medicine that she needed. This little scheme that's happening needs to stop. And I don't care which government it's under, it needs to stop. And because it's the people, the basic people who are phoning us in the UK saying, I'm a 10 qua chomuti, I'm a 50 quachomuti. That's the problem.

SPEAKER_06 2:00:37

Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. Tanya, today you were our special guest. It was inaugural, so not take anything of you. You've already taken enough, but I know you are capable. Looking at the debate. You you you are capable and able to conduct robust debate. And uh I hope to bring you uh um again and thank you for see how our people responded to you. So already your narrative is being established in our country, and I think for today we've achieved. Thank you very much for your time and thank you for those insightful thoughts. Do you have your last words?

SPEAKER_00 2:01:17

Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to come on and share my views. And I am merely a simple Zambian like everyone else. I am nobody special. I am frequently in Zambia, even though people in the comments were saying she's not even in Zambia. How can she talk about us? I am frequently in Zambia. I am on both sides of the of the ocean. This is why I can speak so openly. I I many people spoke about fear of you know retribution from the governments and so on. I'm speaking, but I'm speaking in the sense that I'm not insulting people. And so, therefore, I hope that I can be honest about things and nobody's going to come back at me if they do. But the point is we have to start by saying as much truth and exposing transparency where we can, and after that, then we can be comfortable and happy with the votes that we cast in August. You need to know how you're going to ask.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:18

As you've seen in Zambia, we have the divisions. When you speak about the divisions, it's sometimes an academic word, but our country stands polarized. That even if the president does something good and you praise him, you will receive the bashing. We are so polarized, there is no space for the middle. You are either left or right, you know, either from the north or from the south. Either UPNG or PF. I think we need healing. Where natural debate can take place without suspicions. And for me, this is what I try to do.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:57

Yes, and I appreciate you allowing me to share my views in exchange with yours as well. Again, like we said, we're just merely opening people's eyes to new ways of thinking so that they become more informed citizens of the country.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:11

Yeah, yeah. Thank you very much, Tanya. You've been uh gracious and uh uh the the we we didn't discuss how much we can be here, but the phones is still buzzing, people still want to talk, but no, we are done for today. I think they can then follow up in the comments and also go to Tanya's page, you know, uh go to our TikTok videos, engage in the robust debates that she brings to the fore. She picks a topic and she is very fair and as strong as on any other topic. If she picks on something the PF did wrong, she will blast them. If she picks on something that the uh UPND have done wrong, she will blast them. She follows issues, not personalities. And I think that's why she's on this platform. Thank you, Tanya. God bless you. We hope to see you soon on this platform.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:03

Thank you so much for having me. Speak to you soon. Bye-bye. They openly admitted that ZAMSA had bought medicines at inflated prices, awarded contracts to unqualified companies, and allowed medicines to be diverted to private pharmacies. But the full report, naming the masterminds, remains unclassified. It remains declassified today. The government claims it can't release the report because investigations are ongoing. But other countries regularly release audit reports while prosecutions continue. If the report was clean, they would have released it. If you think hiding a national audit keeps the truth buried forever, let me give you a real-world warning. Let's take a look at Malaysia and their massive corruption scandal. Billions of public donors were stolen. An initial audit was conducted, but instead of releasing it, the Malaysian government classified the audit report as a state secret to protect the monitoring that the truth. They thought they were untouchable. You can't hide the truth from everything. Eventually, the government was voted out, and the very first thing that the new administration did was declassify that it didn't audit. The truth was exposed, and the supposedly untouchable prime minister Najib Razaki was sent to prison. Hiding a PWC audit in the year today, it doesn't erase the crime. It only delays the inevitable. It's where you hide the people who are too powerful to touch. Instead of touching the masterminds, the drug enforcement commission arrested 10 mid-level people, including procurement officers and company directors. Let's take a look at the facts of some of these arrests. So one of the companies involved, who should be business adventures, received 16.1 million quacha of public money without even being registered, with a value medical deregulatory authority. They had no license to operate. The director was arrested. But who in the government approved, giving an unlicensed company 60 million quads? Who signed those papers? Notice who is missing from the arrestees. Not a single minister. Let's look at the Ministry of Health itself. Sylvia must have voted. It was removed in July 2022. Then last month, February 2026, President unexpectedly fired a replacement Elijah Wish. In the dark of the night with no public explanation. See, firing a minister without explanation is not transparency, it's damage control. It's moving the sacred power out of the spotlight before the public sees what they have actually done. To understand why the masterminds remain untouched, let's look at the Anti-Corruption Commission. In February 2026, Action Aid Zambia alleged selective justice in corruption cases. The UPND Media Director challenged the civil society to provide specific evidence, stating the investigative wage would not hesitate to act if they were given the facts. Was he telling the truth? Because in January 2026, formal complaints were filed containing explicit evidence that UPND officials were illegally collecting voting cards for money in Cassandra. The Electoral Commission confirmed that this was illegal under regulations 38 and 39 of the voters' registration regulations. An official unofficially referred the matter to the ACC. What happened? Absolutely nothing excited. The public never heard what happened. While the UPND officials to the UPND officials that were reported. Meanwhile, the DEC is currently mobilizing anti-money laundering units against Archbishop Alexander over 50,000, quite over 50,000 retributions. In July 2024, the former ACC board member, Dr. O'Brien Cowboy, publicly stated that the ACC is captured by corrupt elements. Days later, the Director General resigned and was replaced by Daphne Chow, a known UPND member. From the Ministry of Lands, a department consistently ranked one of the most corrupt ministries in Zambia. How can we expect independent investigations when the investigator seems at the pleasure of the investigated? If this government wants to prove the no sacred cows promise, it was not a lie, it needs to take action, release the full PWC audit, prosecute the masterminds, not just procurement officers, make the ACC truly independent from state house until we end up with a