Emmanuel Mwamba Verified
Discusses public, civil and policy matters
Emmanuel Mwamba Verified
DISCUSSING THE ELECTORAL SYSTEM AND THE NEW 70 SEATS
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LIVE NOW; THE NEW 70 SEATS DELIMITATED AHEAD OF THE 2026 GENERAL ELECTIONS
It's time for the bigger. Queen you queny unde made mala suka kuchul papa mutou bad Queen you quen not enough time is up Oyolize and bluff time is up I miss up not enough time is up Oyolize and bluff Kanizan on this opanda find the colour Mr. Umatu good morning fellow politicians my names are Charity Panda uh PF Vice National Chairperson.
SPEAKER_28I'm here to represent my president, you know, with us is caught here, code there. So Mr. Honorable Mao Sampa is over here and uh our SP Mr. So I'm here to represent them, but they will be coming anyway, you know, as it's about courtesy that we are the original PM.
SPEAKER_02Just to introduce yourself, please.
SPEAKER_04My team is on its way up to here. Thank you very much. Sorry, I left out one thing. Uh our ours is uh reasoning assurance party. Don't cana around.
SPEAKER_22I am the vice president of the Master Party Europe. I mean you can join the party, the secretary general reverend Alfred Banda. Do not worry about muscle who said that you are winning. No now we are going to party.
SPEAKER_16Oh Mauka Buanji won't say Mazina Yang and Jane Vincent Chaire President for Radical Revolutionary Party. Oh, because I came alone for security reasons. Usually radicals always move along.
SPEAKER_02Please don't don't go into those issues, just introduce yourself. We are trying to manage time.
SPEAKER_21Won't allow you that because this is it. Hold on, hold on, take it easy. Let me speak.
SPEAKER_02Everyone has introduced themselves accordingly, and we are going to be able to do that. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_21That's where I'm going. That's where I'm going. The next president of Zambia, as we kick out Hakainde S UTMR, this year. I want to urge all the political leaders here. You are not speech.
SPEAKER_02Can we order in the house and respect for all that have introduced themselves?
SPEAKER_21Okay, I'm concluding just now. So this is an opposite. Take it easy. Take it easy.
SPEAKER_02Take it easy. Mr.
SPEAKER_21Okay, so this is the President Tonya, the next president of Zambia, third liberation movement.
SPEAKER_02Please hand over the microphone, sir. It seems we are not understanding each other.
SPEAKER_30Uh good morning, everybody. Um, my name is Dr. Bodun Chilonga Kafwaya. Um president of Junior People's Party. Um really approach for the committee attending some one of our friends not feeling well. Thank you.
SPEAKER_25Which kind of people are you? Okay.
SPEAKER_05Let us all sit.
SPEAKER_27Officials, please go and sit. Uh good morning, everybody, and all protocols observed. My name is uh Savoy Imboela. I am the president of the National Democratic Congress Party, NDC, and I've come with my Secretary General, Mr. Mambo Zimba, and uh the deputy SG, uh Madam Uh Hugh Denamila. They are standing there, uh, the two of them. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_19Good morning. My name is uh Arthur Musukwa, president of the NDC in the alliance. Uh with me.
SPEAKER_27This is uh order. I think we were invited to this meeting. How come parties? Now we're having two two parties.
SPEAKER_19My name is Atham Sukwa, uh, the president of MD.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no, no. Let me just note it. Uh kindly help me switch off the microphone. Let's first allow them to introduce themselves. I'll request the commission to guide. Let's just allow them to finish introducing themselves. Thank you.
SPEAKER_19My name is Asha Musukwa. I'm the president of the NDC, the National Congress, uh National Democratic Congress in the UPND alliance. With me is Mr. Stephen Chewe, the Secretary General. And I've got uh Mr. Joseph Banda, the man in charge of elections, and uh Benjamin Peterson.
SPEAKER_02Just introduce yourself. So, how are we going to good morning, uh fellow politicians?
SPEAKER_28My name is uh Charity Banda. Uh here to advise the national chairperson. I'm here to represent my president, you know, with as his order Mr. Honorable Mao Samba is over here and uh our SG Mr. Differenk. So I'm here to represent them, but they will be coming anyway, you know, as it's about orders that we are the original PM.
SPEAKER_02Just to introduce yourself. Please just introduce yourself.
SPEAKER_08So my name is uh Harry Kalava. I am the president of the citizens. I have come with um Secretary General Vincent Chinchu, Deputy Secretary General Kasese Borta, Elections Chairperson Um Martin Kalula, and campaign manager Stanley Mohango. But just a quick one next time that we should keep time is e Z. If we say it's nine hours, let's keep nine hours. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_15That the president has a pita comma maybe. Manja president, muni won at level. Man, the president has a seven as a seven president. Mukani Pasa my independence parliament moja, the cabuza or tamo loti vacan. How is the president going to run the government? The president needs counselors, the president needs council chairpersons, the president needs mayors, the president needs MPs, the president needs ministers. We have mayors except in Lola and Kidway. Twenty twenty six. We want our only mayor in Dola. Uh uh, man, the president money on our zero in the president as a seven year as a seven as a one president. Mukani passama independence parliament moja, nicava usa orti lamuroti vacan. How is the president going to run the government? The president needs counselors, the president needs council chairpersons, the president needs mayors, the president needs MPs, the president needs ministers. 2026 for a suit. All the districts.
SPEAKER_06And welcome to today's broadcast. We uh broadcasting today on Sunday. I didn't broadcast uh on Friday. Uh I was celebrating my birthday on yesterday. Thank you for all your birthdays. Uh, congratulations and your wishes. Thank you very much. I don't take it for granted. I'm grateful that you sent those wishes. Uh let me just connect the other cable so that we don't have any problem. Just tell me if the volume is okay and if we are okay, then I can proceed with today's broadcast. Thank you very much for all those that uh uh sent birthday wishes to me. I am totally grateful. You saw the videos I've just played. Um, what do they say of our electoral process? ECZ made it very clear that they issued invitations. Now it is emerging that some of those parties that performed either were part of civil society or were not are not registered as political parties. So, how did ECZ issue the invitations to a political party that is not registered? We understand for the parties having difficulties. You saw there were two uh delegations of uh NDC, Saboimboil and another. There were two delegations of the Patriotic Front, Makebizulu and Mao Sampa's delegation. There were two delegations of UNIP, uh you know, uh uh uh uh Trevor Mwamba, Bishop Trevor Mwamba, and the other one read by the Kaneel Kaneomiova, uh you know the the the the vice president Emanda was saying that we are founding political party in Zambia. Um those are an exception. You do not want ECZ to interfere in their legal wrangles. So for me, I wouldn't blame ECZ for allowing two factions to be present at their meetings, but it spells doom to what might happen. That ECZ and Registrar of Societies may exclude those that don't appear on Registral of Societies, effectively uh uh complete in the process to deplatform certain parties that you know, certain factions that the state have um have targeted. But when you look at the political parties that are not registered at all, where did ECZ get the their details and even issue an invitation? Where did they come from? For me, that's where our worry is. So were they planted to show chaos that there's no serious opposition in Zambia? Were they planted to demonstrate the the drama, the theater, and uh just the foolishness we saw at such a serious meeting, attempting to get a leader for our country, a leader that can replace President Haka Inde Hilama. Is this part of a a script? That's what we are discussing today. I have seen someone is uh writing on the comments that Ambassador, uh, I always want to participate in your program, but I'm unable to. Come on, just call. The number is there, the line is open. I never know who is at the end of the line. I have no idea who is at the end of the line. Just just call. Another matter of importance is uh the delimitation of the uh 70 uh uh constituencies that have emerged. Um and I think for me that uh also uh uh uh raises a lot of issues. While communities may be very excited about this delimitation, we don't seem to understand, first of all, uh the role of uh of uh MPs. MPs are mere legislators. An MP can't build you a road, an MP cannot build you a school, an MP is a legislator, that's why out of 12 months, nine months they are in Lusaka. But uh we have mistaken uh you know uh representation to mean development deliverance. No, development will be delivered by districts, by provinces, by the state in its planning. Of course, the the thought of a bottom-up approach is very welcome because you want to consult and you want to consult people on the ground. But if you look at uh uh any decentralization or devolution process uh the development of any country is never done by MPs. Members of parliament are uh are legislators, but you can see as people submitted why they needed a new constituency, is they would say no, because Tifuna Miseo, oh Tifuna, there's no bridge, oh there is no this, there's no water, there is no, you know, all these things are not there because we don't have an MP in our area. And our MPs and policymakers don't even bother to clarify that the members of parliament are mayor members of parliament, parliament in Lusaka, which sits nine months of the 12 months. And I I I feel pity for the MPs because before long the five years is over, and our communities are asking, where is the road you promised? Where is the bridge you promised? What happened to that school you said would be here? What about the health center? No. Although an MP can can can can persuade central government or provincial governments to bring development to their area, their primary goal is that of uh uh uh you know, they are mayor legislators. They have to effect policies, they have to enact laws, and to that extent, yes, they contribute to development. But direct development is not done, you know, by MPs. Some have been arguing, no, no, no, that means CDF will grow. CDF CDF, CDF Cambridge. Development to our country. CDF is just even currently in its extremely expanded form of 40 million quacha per constitu per constituency is only 4% of our national budget. 4%. That allocation to a constituency sometimes can't even do one big major road because it's totally inadequate. Development is done like it is prescribed in devolution documents, whether it's in the decentralization policy or in any other policy. CDF is a minor component in the in the uh you know local development and rural development. It's a very minor component, very small. And at national level, it only contributes 40, I mean 4% of our national budget. That's how insignificant CDF is. CDF cannot bring development. No, it can complement development. So you have to have primary development being done by the district or by the province or by the state. Then CDF only complements those quick areas that might need intervention by local people. But to make it as a primary driver is to first to misunderstand the role of the decentralization policy that calls for an overhaul budget. That's why remember why we pay councils now is we expanded council and brought qualified staff, administrators, engineers, planners, procurement officers, not to deal with CDF, to deal with the district and this district planning and district development. That is why though you have that complementary fund that comes from the state, because currently this currently our districts across the country may not even afford the salaries of those highly qualified people that have been brought to the district from council secretary or town clerk and the set of engineers in the manner it was expanded. But President Akainde Helem, and I think I blame him for failure to understand just the decentralization policy and the entire infrastructure of the state. And you can't blame him because he came from the private sector. But it was envisioned that the district council will be the deliverer of development. And that's why it's staffed with those qualified people. But if you debase development toward development committees who have no qualified people, their role should be merely consultative. In our community, they want a school. The World Development Committee should not build their school. In my view, it should be the, you know, it should be the district council. In the manner it was designed all over the world, all over the world. You have to look at uh how devolution and decentralization is done, whether it's from Japan to here the US or from Singapore to South Africa. It's not CDF that drives the development. It has to be the district. You give them full experts, and then you give them full complementary of funding, and then they develop the district and the constituencies in effect. So there is this excitement about new seats, and because we haven't educated our people about the role of the MP. So there was general excitement. But let's look at who were the winners, who got these 70 seats. Let's start with central province. Chiwombo has been divided. It has now two constituencies, Kembe East and Kembe West. Remember, there was Katuba, there's Chisamba, there's Kembe. But I'll just be mentioning the district and the constituencies that have benefited from there. In Chisamba, it has been divided into two, Muombochi. Other than Chisamba, there's Muomboshi. In Kabwe, remember there's Kabwe, Wacha and there's Wacha and Kabwe Central. Now they've introduced Wacha North and Wacha South. In Kapirimposhi, again, this was one large constituency in one district. But now it has Kapirimposhi East and Kapirimposhi West. Mukushi. Mukushi has Mukushi North and Mukushi South. Where is a new city in Mukushi? I don't see it, but there's a new one that was created. In Mumbwa, remember Mumbai Mumbboa and Nangoma. Now Mumbwa has been divided into two Mumbwa Central and Mumbwa West. Nangoma remains Serenje. Serenje had Serenje and Chu and Chitambo. But remember Chitambo is a new district and it's at it has its own constituency. But out of serenje, two constituencies, three constituencies have emerged. Serenje, Lukasashi, Kundalila. In Chiwiunji, this is still central province, there was Mwembeji. Now they've crafted out Mwembeji East and Mwembeji West. If you go to the Copper Belt, the the let's start with Chirilabombe. Chilabombe had just one seat. Now it has been divided into two. There's Chirilabombe and Conkola. Chingola, Chingola has uh I do remember it at Chingola and Nchanga Central. Now Chingola has been divided into two. There's Chingola Central and Chingola West to complement Nchanga constituents. In Kalulushi, they've created Chambishi. This I think also results. You have to tell me in the comments if Chambishi was declared a district as well. Because there's been that call. Chambishi is a mining town in between, you know, in between Kitu and um and Chingola, but it falls under Kalulushi constituency. And there's been a cry that Chambishi is an independent town. It should have its own constituency. So there is an answer there. Kalulushi now will be Kalulushi, then Chambishi. Lufuanyama, I noticed on the Copper Belt most of the new seats have gone to Ndola Rural. Lufuyama now has been divided into two. Lufwanyama East, Lufuanyama West. Masahiti now has three constituencies, Kaflafuta, Kalansabo, Mmasaiti. Mpongwe has now been divided into two, Mpongwe East and Mpongwe West. People were saying that most of the seats have gone to have favored the UPND. You have to be to scrutinize very, very clearly. So if the seats that have been made on the Copper Belt are than you know, Chirilabombe, Chingola, Kalurushi, and Ndola, the other seats have also gone to Ndola Rural, where the UPND have maintained a stronghold. Ndola at Buanamkubua and Chifubu, but now they've increased Dagama shot. I think Dagama shot is a new city, new constituency in Indola. If we go to Eastern Province, Chadiza has been divided into two. Now there's Chadiza East, Chadiza West. Chama has three seats: Chama Central, Chama North, and Chama South. There used to be Chama South and Chama North. Now there's Chama Central. I think that's what has happened even to Mukushi. I think I'll verify. Chasefu now has been divided into two. There's Chasefu South and Chasefu North. I was mocking Mishek Nyambose, the MP for Chasefu. He took out a long write-up to celebrate that is justified for supporting Bill 7. There, Chasefu will receive as now two constituencies. And he says now we'll have two CDF. Therefore, Bill 7 was uh was a success, although people mocked us. No, no, Banyambose, no. Bill 7 was a corrupt process. That's why government were, you know, that's why the state were paying you, not the state, the UPND and state house. We're paying you a lot of money. We've had up to 3 million quacha were paid to independent and opposition MPs. This has been a scandal that will require investigation. So the mayor delimitation of constituency is Banyambose, my fellow unionist, doesn't make BU7 to be right. That's fully thinking you are transposing knowledge and wisdom there. Chipangali has now Chipangali West and Chipangali East. Chipata has Chipata Central, Chipata North. Remember Chipata has two seats, Chipata and Luangeni. So they've introduced dividing Chipata the seat to central and north. Lumezi had one constituency that has been divided now into Lumezi North, Lumezi South. Lusangazi, which is a new constituency, has been further divided into Lusangazi Central. But now there is Lusangazi Central that has emerged. In Mambwe, Mike Munali Ranaway has been advocating that Malambo constituency be divided. So Malambo will be divided into two, Malambo East and Malambo West. Nimba, Nimba North and Nimba South. Let's come to Lusaka. Lusaka has uh this is where we have the most criticism because Lusaka only received, I think, six new constituencies. Yet it sits the entire country, up to 3.5 million people are in Lusaka, and it has the largest voter base, other than Copper Belt and both southern and eastern provinces. But Lusaka only had was delimitated only six seats, and most of them went even to sparsely populated areas like Chilanga. So Chilangas, Chilanga North and Chilanga South, and then Kafue also has been divided to Kafue East and Kafue West. Many people had hoped that would divide Kanyama, Matero, Munali, Mandevu. This probably needed to be divided into three seats each, looking at a huge population that the four constituencies in Lusaka hold. So Chawama has not been touched, Kawata has not been touched, Kanyama, Kanyama, they've carved out a new a new constituency, a new seat they are calling Lima. Lusaka Central remains, but out of Kanyama, there are two seats that have emerged from Kanyama. Lima, has McKenna come from Kanyama? I have no McKenzie has always been under Kanyama. So Makeni and Lima seats are being caved out of Kanyama. I think that's my understanding. You can correct me in the comments. I'll read up. The two seats, McKeni and Lima, seem to have emerged from Kanyama, which is the largest populated area in Lusaka. Then from Mandevo, there is a seat that has come. Is it Lima that has come from Mandevo? Maybe I might be confusing the two. Makeni has come from Kanyama. Yeah, I think that's a clarification. Then Lima has come from Mandevo. Yeah, I think now it's very clear. Kanyama has Makeni as a new seat, and Mandevo as Lima that has emerged from Makeni. The rest remain the same. Um Munali. There's also a seat being called Roma. Is that out of Mandevo or out of Munali? It could be out of Munali. Okay. Help me in the comments. Help. This is a lot of data. Just, you know, I've just come from my birthday celebration, and I was quickly grabbing this information and distilling it for you. It doesn't matter how many times this is it announces. You have to repeat the facts for our people to become familiar. So in case I'm making any mistake, we seem to have forced it. Roma, uh Lima, and um Makeni that have come from uh Kanyama, Mandevu, and Munali constituencies. Of course, then there's Chilanga and Kafue that we talked about area. And then Chongwe, let me not forget Chongwe. My dear sister Bernard Deka says she's aspiring for Chongwe. Is it Chongwe East or Chongwe West? So Chongwe has also been divided, Masebosk. Seat has been divided into two. Okay. Let's go ku Makwenyan in Western Province. Kalabo now has uh a new seat, Kalabo South. Remember it had Kalabo and Liua, where the national park is. Now it has Kalabo Central and Kalabo South. Luampa, the new district, we already declared it a new constituency. It has the constituency has now been divided further into Luampa East and Luampa West. Lukulu. Lukulu and the terrible road connecting Kaoma and Lukulu have always advocated for that road. Lukulu used to be Lukulu East and Lukulu West. Lukulu West, eh? Lukulu West was made into Mitete. Mitete as a district as also now a constituency. So Lukulu now as a main district has been divided further into Lukulu North and Lukulu South. Mongu had one seat, but now it had two seats, sorry, Mongu and Nalikwanda. But Mongo has been divided further, Mongu Central and Mongu East. Senanga and Senanga, now it has Senanga South and Senanga North. Seseke was one constituency, it has now two Sesheke East and Seheke West. Remember, President Michael Sata created Mulowezi district, which was under um Sesheke. So it's now a constituency on its own and a district. But now Sesheke is being divided further into two constituencies, Sešeke East and Seheke West. Shangombo, far cry, yes, Shangombo. It's a very difficult far flag, one of the remotest corners in our country, Shangombo North and Shangombo South. I was telling a story there in Shangombo where I found, you know, I wrote an article that two bridges that never meet. So while we're building a$350 million road from Mongu to Kalabo to connect to Skongo and to Angola, I found that Angola had no plans for this highway we were building. Instead, they had plans to reach up to Shangonbo. They had a$40 million canal they were planning over that Rivungu River. And they were planning a rail line from Luanda into the interior to reach Shangombo. If it were Angola ma plansombo. And I bemoaned, I said, then what is the purpose of those joint committees that we hold between bilateral meetings? How can Angola be planning for Shangombo? As we've spent$350 million on a Mongo Kalabo road, and we are supposed to do a brand new road from Kalabo to Sesheke, and we are putting also electricity and power, border post, everything. And then I visit Angola, I find that their plans are focused on Shangombo. They'd even gotten a contractor to do a$40 million canal and we're planning a rail line. Because when they looked at a map, they saw that it was easier for Zambia to connect Mulovese, okay, which where our railway line ends, which is the nearest from Livingstone, is Mulovese, 200 kilometers from Shangombo. So on their map, Angola looked at it and said, no, I think our planning should be near the rail line. It's easy for us to persuade Zambia to put a rail line from Mulovese into Shangombo. Yet we were focused on Sikongo. And the other point of planning for Angola was on Jimbe, where the nearest town Luano already has the Benguela Rail. So instead of it going into Kolwesi, then it comes through Chingola. They said there's a short plan here from Soluze, because they saw our planning that we are doing a rail from Chingola into Solwese. And then from Soluesi to Jimbe, Jimbe to Luano. It's very easy to connect to the Benguela rail line and the international corridors will be done. So there is the misjudgment of planning. And I just said, and that's a trouble when you change governments frequently, institutional memory is lost. People pick up and they think they are developing canche. They are just building blind ends, digging tunnels that never meet, calling it integration that never integrates. Let's go to Luapula. Luapula sadly has received only five seats. Only five seats. And the people of Luapula are not happy with that. Chiengi has been given a new seat, Kalungwishi, there's the famous Kalungwishi River, where you have one of the most famous waterfalls that sits on Kalungishi River. In fact, there are two major waterfalls that sit on Kalungwishi. Chifunabuli has been divided into two, Chifunabuli North and Chifunabuli South. Kawambwa has been given a new seat, Luongo. Remember it as Kawambua and Pambashe, where Nixon Chilangwa and Ronad Chitotela come from. Mansa has Bahati and Mansa. So now Mansa has been divided into two, Mansa East and Mansa West. In Chelenge has Mueru and Inchelenge, it used to have Nchelenge one seat. Now it has two seats with Mweru. I think named after the famous lake and where my dear chief there is with his beautiful ceremony. Muchinga province, uh, they've divided Chinsali into two, Chinsali Central and Chunda. In Isoka, uh Isoka used to be Isoka and Isoka East. Ishoka East was declared a district which became Mafinga. So now Isoka is being divided further into Isoka and Nkomba. Kanchivya, Sande Chanda's constituency, has been given to Luitikila and Kanchivia. The naming of uh those two seats was under scrutiny, but that's secondary. So Kanchvia gets Luitilla. Umfinga, remember, which used to be Isoka East, now and became Mafinga a constituency and a district, now as Mafinga South and Mafinga North. Mpika, which was a mother to Kanchivia, which is a new city, a new district, which was a mother to now what is being called Lutikila, so gets further divided. Remember, Mpika was known as the largest constituency in Southern Africa because it was a size. You know, people would joke about it, especially Guy Scott, who comes from Mpika, his father settled in Mpika. I think he would say either Scotland or Britain can fit in Mpika as a as a constituency. That's how large it is. So Mpika now has been divided. Mfue those days used to be under Mpika. But now Mfwe is is Mkanchivia was born out of it. Now we have other cities. So Mpika has been divided further Mpika North and Mpika South. Nakonde. Nakonde, there's a small town before Nakonde that was well developed, Mwenzo, because it was a mission that's where Dr. David Kaunda first arrived, I think, before he ventured into Chinsali. Mwenzo, and that's where the first political activity took place in Zambia when in 1912 they formed the welfare association. Should read about it in 1912. That's how active our people were. So Mwenzo is a very famous historical town, but it has died with the development of Naconde, and I think it has been lost. So here a new constituency is born in Mwenzo. Let's go to Northwestern province. I think Northwestern Province is one of those provinces that received uh uh some of the largest uh seats, largest number of seats, is it nine? Because it was uh Southern Province, Northwestern Province, and Eastern Province that received nine seats. So Kabompo is being divided uh Kabompo East and Kabompo West. Um Lumuana, which is a new district, Kalumbila, which is a new district, will have two constituencies Kalumbila and Lumwana, Kasempa. We'll have Kasempa and Mufwashi, Mufumwe, we'll have Dongwe and Mufumbwe, Mwinilunga, we'll have Mwinilunga East and Munilunga West. Soluzi, we'll have Soluzi Central and Soleesi North. And Soloesi used to be a mother of all these seats up to Kalumbilla. All these seats used to be under Solezi, but it's been divided as development emerged. So there will be Solezi Central and Soleesi North, and then Zambezi Central. Remember there was the delimitation process in 2019 where they were flying chairs against one another. Zambezi is as a perpetual division, cultural division between those two major tribes and where to sit. The tension is always high when they're having the ceremonies of one another. And I think we haven't paid much attention to Zambezi. So I'm glad that it's being divided further. But again, this division should not flare up the inherent divisions that Zambezi as a district faces, the cultural and tribal divisions, that two ugly pictures we always see in Zambezi. So Zambezi will have Zambezi Central, Zambezi East, and Zambezi West. Southern province has nine new districts. Where is my paper for southern province? Let me take a break. I'll come and read you the provinces that have emerged from Southern Province. But this is a summary. So Southern Province has nine, northwestern province has seven, northern province has seven, Muchinga has six, Wapula has five Lusaka's Lusaka's six new districts. Yeah, Copper Belt. Yeah. Okay, we'll go through that. I'll take a short break and I would invite you to make comments about this. Can we have your comments about the delimitation process that is being done by my camera? Was on the side. Sorry. I'm using two cameras and I seem to have been using this camera. I should have been using this camera. Ah, okay. Okay, please phone in and uh uh join in the debate. We are discussing the two issues. Then there is electoral process bill. I'll come and make comments about the electoral process bill.
SPEAKER_27The chairman of uh good morning, everybody, and all protocols observed. My name is umboyela. I am the president of the National Democratic Congress Party N DC, and I've come with my Secretary General, Mr. Mambu Zimba, and uh the deputy SG, uh Madam Hyuda Namuela. They are standing there, uh the two of them. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_19Good morning. My name is uh president of the NDC in the alliance. Uh, with me is uh Mr.
SPEAKER_27Steve. I think we were invited to this meeting. How come parties? Now we're having two two parties.
SPEAKER_19My name is Aslam Musukwa, the president of MDC.
SPEAKER_02Let me just note it and kindly help me switch off the microphone. Let's first allow them to introduce themselves. I'll request the commission to guide. Let's just allow them to finish introducing themselves. Thank you.
SPEAKER_19My name is Asam Musukwa. I'm the president of the NDC, the National Congress, uh National Democratic Congress in the UPND alliance. With me is Mr. Stephen Chewe, the Secretary General.
SPEAKER_32Let us maintain silence.
SPEAKER_19And I've got uh Mr. Joseph Banda, the man in charge of elections, and uh Benjamin Perry.
SPEAKER_28Good morning, fellow politicians. My name is uh Charity Banda, uh PF Vice National Chairperson. I'm here to represent my president. You know, with us is code here, good there, Mr. Honorable Mao Sampa is over here and uh our SG Mr. Life. So I'm here to represent them, but they will be coming anyway, you know, as it's about courts. But we are the original PM.
SPEAKER_02Just to introduce yourself. Please just introduce yourself.
SPEAKER_31So how we are going to request, may I request my team is on its way up to here.
SPEAKER_04Thank you very much. Sorry, I left out one thing.
SPEAKER_30Um, my name is Dr. Boduen Chilonga Kafwaya. Um president of a junior people's party. Um really approach for the committee attending some one of our friends in order to work. Thank you.
SPEAKER_29Um, my name is Chandra David. Uh, I'm the president for Young Leaders Art Club Zambia Association. Um, my name is Chandar David. Uh, I'm the president for Young Leaders Art Club Zambia Association.
SPEAKER_06Thank you very much, and uh thank you. Welcome to the broadcast. Today we are discussing the theatrics at uh ECZ consultative conference. Was that planted? We saw members of civil society present. We saw uh them even introducing and making drama like this man that has just come. He belongs to some civil society. This was a political party conference. Then we saw the drama of political parties that are not registered at all. So how did ECZ issue those invitations? For the political parties that are factions, usually created by the state, as we've seen in UNIP, in PF, in NDC, is you can't blame them. All the factions are claiming, because it's a legal wrangle, are claiming to be the owners of the party. So that for me, I would excuse ECZ. But for those parties that are not registered and caused this theater, was the purpose of this meeting to reduce the purpose of this meeting into drama, like to create a picture to the country and to the world that Zambia doesn't have serious opposition? Was that an intention by ECZ? When we raise concerns around ICZ, some besato like this, where the entire meeting is reduced to these uh sound bites that embarrass the entire country. And then we've been discussing the delimitation process. I explained very clearly the delimitation process and the clamor for each community wanting a member of parliament. There is a total misunderstanding, and our politicians take advantage of the ignorance of our people. Our people have equated representation to development. When in the structure of development, the two are totally different. The member of parliament is a member of parliament who goes to Lusaka. Nine months out of 12 months is in Lusaka legislating, passing bills, you know, promoting policies. Yes, it can foster development, but they come in a consultative process as legislators at parliament. So it doesn't matter how many MPs we give them and the land cruisers, they can never bring development to the area. Just tell me which MP has built a brand new road, a brand new bridge, you know, schools and all. They'll make from CDF, which is just 4% of the national budget, they'll make isolated amounts of development, but those can't put a dent to the level of our underdevelopment that we face. You require proper planning of rural development, development at district, provincial level, driven by both these governments, both the central and local government. CDF is a minor component, small component, and as demonstrated by the allocation that is given to it, only 4% of the national budget goes to CDF. Isn't there if you look at uh decentralization policies, the one we've adopted as a country, where we have to devolve education, health, um, and development of key infrastructure to our districts. That's how we've planned it, not to CDF, not to what committees. It's a total misunderstanding by the president. He has even revised the CDF, thinking when he revises the policy, maybe something will be better. No. CDF is a small component in the devolution of power to the local area, to the periphery, and it should be looked at it like that. CDF cannot be the enabler and developer of our areas. No, no, no, no. You need to you need just to see how rural development, how uh devolution is done across the world, how uh you know you you you deal with development at local level. Our decentralization policy is one of the best in Southern Africa, but you have implementers that don't understand it and hence the confusion. Let me do a summary of the seats, who got what? I'll read Southern Province in detail. Uh it's only I can't see my papers, but I'll read it in detail. But Central Province got eight new seats. Uh and the number of constituencies have risen to eight. Copper Belt have risen to 23. Copper Belt got seven new seats, and the constituencies have risen from 22 to 29. Uh, Eastern Province got nine, and the constituencies have risen from 20 to 29. Luapula had 15 seats, they've only given them five seats, so the constituencies have risen to 20 seats. Lusaka has uh 12, at 12 constituencies, they've been given six, the number goes to 18. Muchinga had eight constituencies, they've given them six, the number goes to 14 constituencies. Um Northern Province had 13 seats, they've given them um uh six as well, the constituencies go to 19. Uh Northwestern province had 12 seats, they've given them seven, the number of constituencies goes to 19. Southern province 20, they've been given nine, and it was one of the largest constituencies already as a province, so they've got another nine, they've jumped to 29. Eastern province had 19. Uh Eastern Province, I said, had 20, and it also rises to 29. Western province had 19 seats, because Western Province used to have um is is at nine seats until Mr. Sata declared another 10 seats. Then Mr. Sata declared nine brand new districts where constituencies were created. So they've been given another seven, so they are sitting at 26. Let's go to Southern Province, which I didn't read, then I invite your calls on these issues that we are discussing. The electoral process bill, I'll be making my comments very, very soon. The the it is a worrying, worrying, worrying document, and if passed, would take away Zambia's right to hold free and fair elections. Okay, so Monze has two now, as has uh three constituencies. There is Monze Central, Monze East, and Momba. Um Namala has Namwala East and Namwala West. Snazongwe has a new constituency called Kariba and Kariba and Snazongwe. Livingstone as living stone Livingstone Central and now it has Maramba as a new constituency. Uh um Mazabuka Garin Kombo, who you know was being marginalized and being fought very hard in the in the UPND, for the first time Mazembe even lost his seat in the management committee, in their central committee. They ensured that he got very least. So Mazabuka will have Mazabuka Central and Magoye West and Magoye East. So Mazabuka, Magoye West and Magoye East. Monze uh will have Wenwa, of course it has always had Wenwa and Monze. Sorry, sorry, I need to yeah, Monze will have the district is Monze, the constituency is Wengwa. Yeah. Wengu has always been there as a constituency. It has stage it, it will have it stage west. Um Kalomo already has Kalomo and Ndundumwezi, but it's going to have Kalomo South. Yeah, it's going to have a new seat, Kalomo South. Kazungula will have Kazungula North and Kazungula South. Choma will have Choma Central, Choma South, and Umbabala is already there as a district and it will have Itajteji East. So make your contribution. What is your view about the decentralization policy? My last remarks now is on um a key issue, which is um which is uh the electoral process bill that was tabled in parliament by Princess Kasune, the Minister of Justice. This is a bad law. It's removing security on the features of a ballot paper. The introduction, Jonas Zimba, lawyer Jonas Zimba from Makebi uh Zulu and Associates and Partners, Mackei Zulu advocates, has done a very good analysis that I've shared on my page on the EPA, the electoral process bill. Go and look at it. He has highlighted the things that are extremely dangerous in that bill, including the removal of security features on the ballot paper. Also the introduction of the Secretary General who should sign the adoption certificate also raises a lot of concern because we have some parties whose Secretary General listed at the Secretary at the Registrar of Societies is either estranged with the party or the party has never changed the details. So what happens in those cases, and every time they want to change, there's an issue the Registrar of Societies is dragging its feet because we've been telling you that there's an issue where they want to disenfranchise and deplatform certain candidates. So those are the three issues we are discussing today. Participate, make a call.
SPEAKER_00The first caller, I think it was Peter who mentioned the electoral process. Are you worried about the electoral process? Uh, do you also think that it will be a free and fair election?
SPEAKER_05We are likely to have sham elections. Yes, correct. At the rate we are going, the elections will be sham. You heard Mr. Hitchlema declare publicly that if it wasn't for Bill 70, he was going they were going to lose the elections. Unsolicited. There was no journalists who forced him to make that statement. He made it on his own. Even himself was denying that. But now he's saying it unsolicited. So if Bill 7 is about him winning the elections, if without Bill 7 he was going to lose the elections, what has he done? Yes. What have they done to make them win with Bill 7? And indeed, if he's not lying, there are some mechanisms that they have put in place that will enable them to win, that will disadvantage their competitors. So the status quo as it stood before Bio 7 was not favorable to them winning. They were going to lose. So what is it that he has done in Bio7 that will make him win? Again, we can see that there is an attempt to ensure that there's no contest. We have applied 34 times as at last as two weeks ago. 34 times to have a rare in Zambia since 2021. We have never been allowed to have a single rally. And it's not just raris, even just small meetings. They are going after you. How do you mobilize as a political party? How do you communicate? You can't even have meetings with your own structures. There are 1,850 something words in Zambia today. Our people need to get into these words. How many applications would we get which are not being granted? There are 156 constituencies before they are increased. How many permits do you need to get? We have never gotten a permit anywhere. The freedom of association, the freedom of assembly, the freedom of expression are being curtailed in this country in a way we have never seen. Even under the PF.
SPEAKER_06Thank you very much. Someone has made very clear. Thank you for the comments. One of the listeners has clarified Roma is coming from Mandevo constituency as a new Lima is coming from Matero and of course Makeni from Kanyama. Thank you for that clarification. I was looking at the comments because I'd asked you to help me uh clarify. Oh, this one says, uh, but Ambassador, you said Mulungushi textiles won't be revived. Come on, I didn't say that. This is what I said about Mulungushi, although it's not part of our debate today. I said the textile industry in Zambia, we have to acknowledge what is called comparative advantage. You land a t shirt from um uh China for 15 quacha. Mulungushi textiles can make a t shirt for 15 kwacha. It's just not possible. So we do not have comparative advantage in the textile industry. Yes. First are you cotton growing because we keep on abandoning our farmers. We love them in this season, we don't love them in the other season. They are like our soy farmers or tobacco farmers. When the industry is erratic, farmers abandon that. That's one of the issues, too. Production costs in Zambia are extremely high, from electricity, you know, fuel, and also to the numerous taxes. You can land a chitenge from you know uh Denmark or Sweden. At a very far Congo, they're usually made in the Scandinavian country. Far cheaper than Mulungushi can make. I don't know if they can even make that quality. Already one of the workers blew a whistle saying the textile industry at Mulungushi requires that you revamp the spinning, the you know, the spinning department and another key department. What they have is they've imported blank material from China, then they are printing, and you say you've opened. This is uh this is a deception we are talking about. It's just difficult with the influx of uh cheap material. And then you have Salaula, which has a high grade material, but bought at a very cheap rate. So if you haven't banned Salahula, if imports from China remain very cheap, and if your cost of production remain very high, Mulungushi textile just becomes what it does. It excites people at election year, and then the cost builder panday clause. I don't know how many times it has been opened the last 20 years. You will see Levi Monawasa opened it, Rupia Banda opened it, Michael Sata opened it, Edgar Lungu opened it, uh Kainde H Lem has opened it. Why we are not asking the fundamental questions that need to be asked? Can the textile industry survive in Zambia? Why have all these uh uh textile companies that we had, from Livingstone up to Ndola, Ndola had so many, Louange even at cereals, why have they collapsed? There are industries that we may not be good at because of the circumstances. So um sorry, my line is just coming on just a minute. I didn't realize it was it was off and discharged. I don't want to release my personal line, I only release it in very, very, very rare circumstances uh when, for example, we have a hot, hot topic like we had uh uh during the the opinion poll they had to open my second line just to accommodate the cause. But let's the line is open now. It has come on. Uh I didn't realize it was off. It has come on, you can make your cause and participate in today's broadcast. The line is open, you can call.
SPEAKER_09Political prostitution. Okay, where now we are seeing the same things that is happening, you say, in in development, where the civil servant, when the single single second is visiting them, the parent person say this and this. This is exactly what is going on in the politics. In the first place, a political party is formed under an ideology. A political party is formed under an ideology. If it is a political party that has got no ideology, what are the political parties that they should be existing? It's just like the churches. What am I standing for? Do I avoid the principles in the first place? Do I understand why the church I have joined is standing for? The answer is no. This is the political prostitution that you have seen in the eastern province. I'm talking about in the eastern province because that is where my mandate is. And the political parties that are sending people that are defecting from this party to this party, there must be very good class. There must be very good class. For example, let me give you if a political party believes in communism, and another political party believes in capitalism. And if I'm a supporter of socialism or communism, how can that simply mean wake up and become a capitalist today? That is a prostitution, it's completely nonsense. Because this parties are found under certain ideology, what they believe in. For example, PFU from the way to go from his founder, Michael Saka, it is a pro party. That's what he has been saying. It means that elements of communism and socialism. When you look at UPND, for example, from the time of Masoka, the way we have understood MD, I mean uh UPND is something different from different from that of uh Patio Fan. So what you are independent member of parliament, you are not the opposition, but the role party cd f but law will still need you. Now you cannot say I'm fell to CDF property because I'm in opposition. When I go to roll the party, this is what I'm going to be. It's an hour, it's a power. And the those are the politicians that are supposed to be forsaken. That is what a lot of potential people can continue to supposition. So this politicians should not just be playing with people's minds. That is that is wrong.
SPEAKER_03So, yes, you have the constitution as um we go towards elections. It's very important for people to maintain their confidence in the judiciary. The judiciary means well, uh, it is not made up of politicians, we are all a political, and uh therefore we mean very well we mean to dispense justice, and we hope that uh the disputes that will arise in the run-up to elections will be resolved quickly, and those that will arise after elections will be resolved as quickly as possible and in the best manner possible.
SPEAKER_06Sorry, on my right up had made a mistake on my phone number, it ends with a two, not a three. So if you know the number is 0973 078082. But on my promotional material, it has an 83 at the end. Uh but of course you can see on the scrollers that's a correct number, 0973. 078082, but on my promotional material it was listed as uh 83 instead of 82. So um that is the number just 0973 078082. I apologize. It was written 83. Uh and of course I've corrected Bima constituency is coming from Matero, Roma from Mandevo, and McKenzie from Kanyama. Thank you for that correction. Uh um Chongway East and Chongwe West. Yes, thank you very much for uh I'm just going through the comments just to see. But that's a clarification. O nine seven three zero seven eight zero eight two. I had written on the promotion material as zero zero nine seven three zero seven eight zero eight three. No eight two at the end. Please correct that if you're trying to call. Okay, now I can see the number is now ringing. Yeah, I think that was a correction. Oh nine seven three zero seven eight zero eighty two.
SPEAKER_15Six. This story I'm hearing that the president has pita come a my empowers of Zaruza. Man, the president has a seven. Ah, the run, the run, man the president money on at least man the president as a seven as a seven president independence of parliament moja, we can't bakami. How is the president going to run the government? The president needs counselors, the president needs council chairpersons, the president needs ministers, the president needs MPs, the president needs ministers.
SPEAKER_06I can see the lines are now open. Please make your contribution. Tell us your name and where you're calling us from.
SPEAKER_10Transparency in the UPND have been in terms of doing the limitations they are doing. It's not fair to the constituent to the other political parties. And he himself was against that idea when he was in the opposition. So it does not show honest in terms of uh, especially when it comes to a leader like him, the things that he condemned, and other things that he's not fair. I wish the people of Zambia would think and vote wisely in large numbers in favor of the opposition. I don't know whether they will vote for Mundumile or they will vote for Maggie Bizul, whoever they will vote for. We need to change systems. We need to change, we need to remove this government because this government is not it's not up to good for the country of Zambia. They've been selfish in all the decisions they're making, they've been selfish, and they're also protecting themselves against the crimes they're committing. So, people of Zambia, if you're hearing, please let's vote wisely. Let's not vote with our tummy. Let's vote with our brains thinking, not just going now for insana 3 million and you can vote with your tummy. Let's go with our brains thinking. Think of tomorrow, we think of our children, we think of our future. Otherwise, where we are right now, we have no future. In the next MM, if the UPA goes through, we are in trouble. Akainde will never leave office until 2090, like they say all the time. Already they have started saying we have to remove that way to term limit, term limited. They are saying that. They are planting a seed in people to begin to think or to change a constitution to allow this man to stay longer, even when he's not doing anything in the office. So, Zambian people, it's time to think. Don't just think of your tummy, think of your children, think of your future. Thank you so much, Ambassador.
SPEAKER_06Thank you very much. Our first caller from Canada, and um uh he has condemned the delimitation process. Thank you very much. The lines are now open. Let's start to hear from you. Hello, caller, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from uh Daniel.
SPEAKER_11I'm calling you from Capital.
SPEAKER_06My brother, make your contributions.
SPEAKER_11Uh wanted to contribute on uh first of all, good evening, uh good evening my contribu uh my contribution is on push uh uh like you say uh that the problem they uh is really because of because of protection. The people call you that they are no longer interested in bushy textiles because they're seeing it open and closed, open and closed, and all the opening of push text house. I think if only uh president Manamasa you know not me take a new one protein, new machinery. If you say more machinery that Manawasa prote, they say they are opening the protein uh new machinery. If you like the machinery, but they like operated because the cost of two is two I got uh coming from outside campaign at people. So those people that were civilians from national national service and looking at whatever uh UPND has done from the time that they've been into power, employing teachers, 30,000 every year, the number that they drag about as this recent one of 4,000. Imagine if they had concentrated all this effort on Africa, employing extension officers who are who are not present in Zambia at the moment. If you go in rural areas like the way it used to be before, you find that there will be extension farmers on motorbike helping farmers on planning on how to either plan to a season or how to handle the uh animal. There is literally no one in the application. It's only this teachers and not his teachers and notes one year, but if we are telling extension officers and we improve the import of uh user in the kitchen, could have it could have been now. But all they do is pay deposits and putting uh figures that are not there in the public saying no, we've employed 30,000 while they are training their budget to employ 30,000 teachers is paying 30,000 teachers with a government that is running on credit. How do you manage that? Thank you very much, Ronald.
SPEAKER_06Thank you, thank you very much. The lines are open and you can call for your contribution. The line is open and you can call for contribution. Um we are discussing the Murungushi Debaco ECZ issue and the new delimitation of constituencies. My brother, tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contributions.
SPEAKER_13Thank you very much, Ambassador Mamba. My name is Uncle Jay.
SPEAKER_06Uncle Jay, welcome to the program once again.
SPEAKER_13Thank you. Thank you so much. May God continue to bless you. Um a quick one. Uh, I want to pull out an issue on the delimitation. I think uh we we are dealing with um a person that lies with his face straight, you know, that is in our president. This is a man that was so much against the same idea, you know, because if he he said it was going to disadvantage him and was going to give an advantage to uh Edgar Chagwarungume, he's so resting peace. The problem that we have when you have dishonest people running the affairs of the country, these are the results that we get. Is this a developmental issue? Absolutely not. It's a political agenda with political outcomes. How is it going to benefit the people expecting nothing? Zillow at all. Zillow. You know, why am I saying so? We need to consider our GDP, we need to consider our financial capacity. What we have done is we have increased the expenditure, Ambassador Mamba. You know, previously we used to pay around, you know, just about 156 MPs. But now our expenditure has increased against what? Look at how many doctors we have in the country. You go to a hospital today, you find maybe one hospital is just being manned by three doctors. Instead of increasing constituences, if this government really cared for the people, they would have been talking about increasing school infrastructure, employing doctors, and by you know, putting medicines in our hospitals. But of course, as he calls himself, it's Mingarato through and through. But let him understand this thing. These things come to hurt you as a person, and the end results is really terrible, and this has to be understood, you know. When you are in crowd nine, everything, everybody is crapping at you. You know, you can do anything, but there is a moment of reckoning when that time dawns, it is to cry. And I feel very sorry for those that are actually supporting this government and are crapping at every useless thing that this government brings forth. The time for reckoning is coming. No man lives forever. You might think you are so clever, you know, you are dribbling the opposition, you're denying them, you know, you know, an opportunity to campaign, meet their people, try to defranchise others, you know, the Electro Commission of Zambia working against the opposition, which is totally against the constitution of Zambia. There is a time and time for everything, and that time for everything, there's time to mourn, time to laugh, time to feel you on top of things, and time to be down. Whatever goes up must come down. But what happens is what happens when you get down. How do you want people to remember you as a president? How do you want people to remember you as a president? Are you do you want to be remembered as a president that that destroyed the country, defranchised people? You know, when you are in power, everyone, because they are getting something from you, they'll clap at you. And this is this is the nature of Zambians. They'll clap, they'll be around you. So I want this government to look at. These things and think seriously. In conclusion, Ambassador Mwamba, I've seen a lot of disturbing uh, you know, pauses away from what we've discussed uh from coming from Munia Zulu Mayan Brother. It is so sad that he's taken this position and is attacking an innocent president that has not even responded or said anything against him. It's so sad. I expect better. I've always looked at Munia Zulu as someone who's level-headed, but he wants to behave like a child, which is very wrong. And I'm calling upon him to sober. To sober. If you want to be respected, respect others. What has Makebi done to you? This is very sad. I thank you, Ambassador Mwamba.
SPEAKER_06Thank you very much, Uncle Jay. And uh, I I noticed a remarks by Munia Munia Zulu, totally unfair. Munia Zulu has been represented by Makebe Zulu in court, and uh those is also just totally unnecessary. Of course, I recognize that there could be some voice notes that were circulating against uh Munia Zulu and JJ Banda, but uh extremely totally unnecessary in light that we are talking about opposition unity. Alo Kola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from.
SPEAKER_07Democracy is important, Muchalo, Motuapoko Muntua, we should say. Constituents, if we are water and tobacco, yipango constituents. Ya pain gama, yeah, that's why we're gonna go to push. Eastern province by Pera, seven or nine. I am a question trade push a one to a wing, trade pushwakantwaving, or to have so to Isabel, yeah, conca for most text down. Avantuaving style. I am still still by so. Now I usually buy sula two, three four days. Now called to what I'm gonna buy some bush, you can have an issue on which ambi, killing chambu, up or sapame shapalisa. Don't expect that. I left the cool so then as I chambi, for a good and we are cash. I will jam a two name and so if you need to if you are shiker. Then this same way in a system. This is a unit of a politician. But my interest Yahoo.
SPEAKER_06Uh oh. Is Bonface gone? Oh, the line for Bonface has started cutting, but I think we've got the gist of what he's saying. He's talking about opposition unity, and he wants the opposition to get united. He says when he saw uh the opposition, for him he saw it, you know, give him an impression that they should be united. That's another way of looking uh best there. So I think too quickly so that we wrap up the program with discussing the uh two conferences we had on democratic and with political parties, and we've also discussed the um the electoral uh process under the electoral process bill that is before parliamentary very treacherous legislation of serious concerns. Let me just read your comments. Let me read your comments in case there's any question, I can answer it. The UPNDS had uh its conference and uh the conference reviewed something um their national chapter person scored the highest vote. Uh and people like Silvia Masseworome Kangombe did very well, but there were people that were voted out that didn't make it. Frank Tyler from Mondola um uh Frank Tyler and others were not elected, including Garin Kombo. Uh it was a shock because Gary Nkombo has been a permanent feature of the UPND for the last 25 years. Um okay, there's a call here.
SPEAKER_17Good evening, Ambassador. Happy delighted birthday to you, wishing you more happy returns.
SPEAKER_06Thank you, thank you very much.
SPEAKER_17Uh, my name is Alfred, calling from uh Zambia within Lusaka.
SPEAKER_06My brother, make your contributions on the limitation.
unknownUm, let me first by starting to launch my disappointment with uh some of our colleagues in the political fraternity and the media houses.
SPEAKER_18You know, to some of them, the fact that they didn't see 25 more constances going to southern province, they mean the limitation was very fair, and then they went on to mock us to say no, you are lying, you are saying 24 more constances okay, given to certain province alone.
unknownUh the morning, the lack of your critical analysing of this of certain issues affecting our country, you know especially in the details, okay.
SPEAKER_18If we look at this limitation, talk about enhancing numbers for the impact you can the political party, and this is all coming down to what we have been trying for to say. You know, it's so selfish, you know, he wants to control, you know, that's what he wants to control, so it's just doing this to increase numbers so that when they win six, they will have a new way now to change to amend the constitution in whichever man they want, and they have numbers, so they have just increased the numbers in this look at local profits, for example, just five uh profits with its personal of its constituency. You know the reason why because we apply the only profits, which number give uh UP any member of public in 2021, zero because zero problem, and what they have done for they are punishing it by giving it just five, and they are going to now multiply their numbers, the numbers in their strongholds, central profits. You have central profits, they control it, they are multiplying the number of the constructions there, for instance, keep them, you know, the seller they will all the constructions there, the selling profits, look at the non-westing profits, you know. So there's no fairness, there's no genuinency in the learning of governance by this government under the chemical.
unknownYou give an example of Michael Santa what he did.
SPEAKER_18He can see your constituency to western province, you can see the genuineness, even though he has.