HOSTING BISHOP DR. P AUL BUPE ON ECL'S BODY

LIVE NOW; WE HOST BISHOP DR. PAUL BUPE ON THE MORTAL REAMINS OF FORMER PRESIDENT EDGAR LUNGU.

Transcript

SPEAKER_29 7:21

The party, friends, and all. So I only lamented that why should you be stripping me of these things and then pushing me and saying, no, we want to protect you. No, uh, you see the meaning of the president to be saying, to be going without this or that. I said, I I I don't need you. You don't need me. So I was very clear. I'm not condemning that. I said, you should be able to do my language, and I need your right. That's what I'm saying, even now. Somebody says, You can't walk the street because you're former president. You are in danger of being attacked when people attack you and you. You blamed as police. That's why we're following you. The next minute I said, But you really didn't know that I was former president. When you strip me of these things, please go and put your house in order. The next minute I won't be able to change somebody goes into change and say, people, the remains of the six presidents have at no point been in the physical custody of the government of Saj.

SPEAKER_03 8:33

They were held by the South African Police Service throughout these few days which have passed in connection with their interest. Secondly, the government of the Republic of respected and will continue to respect every order issued by the court. That is not a matter of convenience. It is a matter of faith. The question of how a former president of the Republic of Land is to be laid to rest is not closed by the latest code of Land. Dr. Louis would say that President of Lambia for St. He was head of state, head of government, and Commander-in-Chief of our Defense Force. The duty the Republic owes to that office is not extinguished by a single order and castle. And government will continue through the proper legal channels and with the patience this matter requires to ensure the honors due to a former head of state are properly discharged to the Lungu family. The position of the Zambian government is what it has been to throw out the body of a former head of state was never meant to be a contest. And it need not remain one. Government's willingness to engage with the family in good faith to find an arrangement that honors the sixth president is undiminished. Our position remains unchanged.

SPEAKER_22 10:57

President Akainde Ichilema has been consistent throughout his interest in this matter, his constitutional, his concern is and has been a few.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

This is why, when a dead soldier was thrown in the grave of a prophet Elijah, whose mentee ran away from being mentored because he went after man and gehaz, the anointing still remained on the body of Elijah. So later in the history of Israel, when they were fighting battle, the body of a dead soldier was thrown into the grave of Elijah. Moment it hit the body of the bones of Elijah, the soldier woke up. Yes, that body was significant. When a person was a leader and he died, the body is significant. In the spiritual realm, they fight for it. That's why Jude says there was a battle between this devil himself, not a demon, Satan and archangel Michael over the body of Moses. Because it is significant. So yes, bodies of certain people can be significant, and there can be a fight over that. I don't mean anything. I was answering a man of God yesterday. So coming to Moses, why were they fighting over the body? It's because whoever got it can use it in any other way. You can even go for rituals with it. The devil wanted to get the body of Moses, knowing that these Israelis were coming from Egypt where the pharaohs were gods. So Moses was like a pharaoh among them. So the devil wanted to create a religion in the desert. That's why he wanted the body of Moses for the creation of another religion so that they don't reach their destiny. They start worshiping in the desert. That's why he got a board, wanted to fight for the body. I know last time someone preached on it on it here on the pulpit. He said the way he died because he died wrongly. That's why there was that. No, no, no, no, it's not the way he died. It is the body itself being significant because in the spiritual realm, Moses, with the power that God demonstrated through his life, Saturn was overcome several times because of Moses. Therefore, he wanted him now to be used for the creation of a religion. So yes, bodies are significant in the spiritual realm. So people of different interests can fight for it. You know why? Because um can she keep we know some Zambia will be conducting must say, and I banged anyone from using this body.

SPEAKER_31 15:03

Sunday, April 20. April 26th, 2026. Um today we were woken up by a blazing, you know, uh shouting headline from our brothers, from brothers and sisters from news dealers who said President Akainde H Lema will stay away from the funeral of the late president, and that this information has been communicated to the family way before this time, and uh the never one scratched their surface. Why has there been an impasse? Why has it taken so long for the president to say exactly what created this impasse 10 months ago? Why is the president all of a sudden saying he will stay away? And it has brought more questions than us as government on its side is saying uh this information was communicated to the family of the late president, that the president is willing to uh uh stay away. Now I I I was just on the line, that's why I delayed to come to the broadcast with Honorable Makedizul. I wanted him to come and say, because it's been uh a key part of the family negotiations, and he says that's not true. Um he will issue a statement to that issue that the family were informed a long time ago. He says it's perfectly false. The family that has been the key demand that there should be assurances and public commitment that the president will stay away according to the witness. He could be represented by the vice president or any president from the state in this state funeral. Today we are not moving away from what has happened to the remains of the late president. Remember on the 22nd April Wednesday, the body was illegally taken from uh to Mountain's funeral parlour. The following day it was subjected to uh an illegal process, a postmoted, both the removal and the postmortem were done without any legal authority and without the consent of the family. The attorney general has attempted to wash off his hands that this process was being done by the South African government. Again, that's not true, because the South African government, I think, uh has been on record that this matter is between Zambia and the family, and that's the South African government has always insisted on that. And in the confusion, there is propaganda where they are trying to confuse that it's a South African police activities. Let's handle that particular issue. There is a L you call the public pressure of public pressure of South Africa, public forum of properly. Yeah, progressive forces of South Africa. Remember, this is an enjoy that I held the press conference, at the hotel demanding that the body of the letters be repatriated, and then during the hearings at court, they were conducting protests in favor of the Zambian government. We have established that the person who paid for that press conference, the national press conference at Galaga when they went to uh have these progressive forces of Africa was Yui Maketo, who is the first secretary of the Zambian mission, is appearing at the removal of the body of the late president, is also appearing at uh the postmoted record. So let us assume that this action they've taken to the magistrate court, demanding first an inquest and an autopsy, where the results of what we have seen where an autopsy has been conducted. But when you look at their court record, they've applied for an inquest for the court to uh to agree with it, and they are demanding for an inquest to be done. The magistrate court has reserved his ruling, and the ruling is coming up on 29th, May 2026. So it becomes very clear that it is not the South African police or an action by that for an inquest and postmodern that is happening before they run the magistrate court because that court is yet to rule on the request for an inquest. Because remember, uh progressive forces of South Africa are neither family members and outsiders to this process. There is no local standard they have. So they've applied to the magistrate court that they want the inquest to be authorized and they want a postmodern to be done. The magistrate in that matter has reserved ruling to 29th May 2026. This rules out completely that this matter is not being done by the South African police. Because under what authority would the South African police do it? Secondly, there is a matter in the Supreme Court. Again, let us assume the appeal in the Supreme Court has lapsed as claimed by Murilo Kamisha. And in his statement earlier, he had said, because the matter in the Supreme Court has lapsed, we are now relying on the judgment that was issued in favor of Zambia in August 2025. Let's look at that judgment. What does it say? Number one, that judgment is very clear. It says government can remove the body, to repatriate the remains, and will proceed to do the state funeral in Zambia. But there were conditions. Number one, that the ADC must be present all the time. Number two, that the personal doctor to the late president, Dr. Njoku, must be present at all times. Number three, a family member, an appointed family member, must be present when they are removing the body and during the entire repatriation of the body. These three are in the court judgment. That court judgment doesn't talk about post-motector, it doesn't talk about any other process other than repatriation under those conditions, those three conditions. That NDC to the late president, Mr. Chaka, that uh his personal doctor, doctor Joe, and the family appointed family member must accompany the body the entire time from its removal to its processing and to its repatriation. None of that was done. Instead, what we saw is that the body was taken illegally without any court order, court authority. Or any authority or any presence of the member of the family, his lawyers or his doctors or the ADC. It was taken to a facility which the family was not aware of, which has not been prescribed in any lawful process. And the postmortem the following day was done illegally. Why are we saying illegally? Because the attorney general in the night was saved with a court order from the high court in Gauteng that his lawyers were saved. And the South African government and South African police were saved all these documents. But Murilo Kabesha proceeded to conduct this for small time for five hours. We are saying Murilo Kabesha, of course, there are people that did this in his name. And the body again here, the record we find is that of Yui Maketo. The first secretary political at Zambian Embassy is the one that is appearing in these records. So the removal was illegal. The postmortem was illegal. And President Akainde Hdman now says the family can now bury, he will not be present. This issue raises more concerns than is required. He's a strong advocate for widows and orphans, and you know, he is an academic, he is also an author, and you know, our love is poetry, a man of God, distinguished man of God. I said, come and speak to the issues of the spirit. Because if we are laymen, what does it mean? What is the significance of the body in life and in death? So let me just bring Bishop Dr. Pwe Po We because I think he's in the studio with me. Doc, good afternoon, and thank you for coming at such a short notice. I I am grateful that uh you've honored this invitation at such a short notice.

SPEAKER_21 24:17

Thank you very much, Honorable Ambassador, for inviting me uh at such a time as this. And I pray that God is going to give us the wisdom to guide us at such a time as this.

SPEAKER_31 24:33

Bishop, the country is very concerned because now matters we are discussing are no longer just issues of the law and physical matters. Now there is a spirit dimension. I was just narrating the event leading to this matter where the body of the late president has been removed without the authority of the family, where a postmatem has been conducted without the authority of the family, and without the authority of the law. You bless children when they are born, you marry us when you know we are getting married, and you bury us. These issues of the spirit are within what you do every day, from birth to cradle, you know. Uh just speak to these issues as they've happened and give us the significance relating to the importance and significance of the body.

SPEAKER_21 25:28

You are absolutely right. The past 42 years I've been working with families in all situations when they are happy, we are celebrators with them when they lose beloved uh loved ones, we are there with them in all situations. The past 42 years, I've worked alongside families, both in Zambia and abroad. I remember one of my members during the time when I was in the US, she was so much in love for Jesus and she respected me. She said to me, Pa, if I die, wherever you be, you come and bury me. And it so happened that I came back to Zambia, she was still alive. Then I just heard that she passed on. She left instructions that I should go and bury her. They had to wait for me. They cremated, kept the ashes, and waited that I should go back and, you know, fulfill her request. Can you imagine where she somebody dies and the remains to be buried by somebody chosen by her? I had to travel from a fly to America. They had prepared the hotel, everything, the car I was driving, and you know, until finally I had to, you know, uh funeralize her. And that's how it is. We need to respect the words of the person who has left a will. We also need to respect the remains, take care of them. Strange things are happening in Zambia. These are strange things happening. Just recently, we in Kalumbila we saw how a body was not respected by people who are still alive. We need to stand up because it is spiritual, like you rightly said. Because if you don't pay attention and this kind of spirit takes root, then Zambians will be living under a curse. I say that because let's look at the book of Genesis. If you look at the book of Genesis, you chapter four, you find the Bible talking about Cain and his brother Abel. It's all it so happened that these two had conflicts, they were having conflicts among them. No sibling conflicts, we do have that. And there was tension wherever human beings are, and it is with us, whether we like it or not, it will come in one way or the other. So it so happened that in the beginning of the word of God, Cain became jealousy, you know, because their interests were the same. It's like politicians who's the same, they're vying for something, and they are you know competing and so on. It could be preachers as well, they are competing, and then something happened. The devil entered the heart of Cain and killed his brother. That's what the Bible says in Genesis chapter 4. Now, interestingly enough, the Lord said something. Then the Lord said, What have you done? Now he confronts this man who killed his brother. What have you done? The voice of your brother, brother's blood is crying to me from the ground. Listen to that. The voice of your brothers is crying to me from the ground. Now you are cursed because of the ground. That's very serious. You are asking me, is the body of the deceased, the remains of the deceased, are they significant? Are we supposed to handle them with dignity and respect? Of course. Of course, we have to. If we respected that person in life, we respect the remains as well. As we value life. Okay, when we bury these people in the in the ground, there is a voice that cries to God, especially if you unjustly killed that person, you unjustly treated that person. There is a cry for justice. And the God of justice has promised that He's going to curse anybody who takes somebody's life. And also, if you don't respect the deceased, you are cursed as well. So you are important in life and in death. As Zambians, we value life. Life is one of our values as Zambians. We give respect to the dead, we give respect to the living. I remember very vividly we had a symposium. A symposium of national guidance. At one time, we were, you know, preparing. We researched concerning the values which we prioritized. We picked about ten values, and values are those non-negotiables, the things that really change your heart. You see how people have reacted concerning what is going on? It's because they value life. And not only life, they also respect the dead. But what we are seeing now is that we are moving away from who we are and what we believe in, and we are beginning to practice some strange values. We have lost the feelings for the dead. How do you go steal the dead and do whatever you want to do? This is an Zambian, of course, from the spiritual point of view. I'll tell you something. Let's let me move a little fast. If I go to the book of Nehemiah, Nehemiah was a servant of the king. He was in Shushan, a city, an old city at that time. And in chapter 2, this is what we read. And it came to pass in the month of Nisan, in the 20th year of Atexes, the king, that wine was before him. And I took up the wine and gave it unto the king. Now I had not been before time sad in his presence. He said, I had never been sad before the presence of the king. Why was he sad? And this is what he says. Wherefore the king said unto me, Why is thy countenance sad? Seeing thou art not sick. This is nothing else but sorrow of the heart. Then I was very so afraid. You were so scared because the king did not allow you to bring emotions that are contrary to what his emotions are. So he could he could even kill you. So he was scared and he quickly prayed and said unto the king, Let the king live forever. That's now Nehemiah. Why should not my countenance be sad? When the city, the place of my father's sepulchre, when the city of my father's sepulchre is talking about the city of Jerusalem where his father's graves are. So it's not only the body that is important, that is significant, even the graveyard itself, you dare not go and desecrate the grave. What about the bones? What about the flesh of the deceased? It is even more serious. So he said, If my father's city and my father's graves are in shame, he says, The city, the place of my father's sepulchre lies west, and the gates thereof are consumed with fire. Then the king said unto him, For what dost thou make request? So I prayed to the God of heaven. So he was crying, he was weeping, he was sorrowful, because his father's graves were consumed with fire. We need to begin to value even graveyard. What more the body? I submit to you that the body of anybody, look at the story of the good Samaritan. There was a man dying by the roadside. What has the Lord taught us? He has taught us not to bypass somebody who is dying or who is dead. You should not bypass those people. Let us treat the dead with respect and dignity. We cannot be blessed because Cain was cursed because he killed his brother, and the blood was crying from the ground. So what we are doing as Zambians, we are heaping up a curse on the nation of Zambia. Zambia has been blessed. We have been a humble people, a loving people. We have been one Zambia, one nation, and this curse is coming upon us. We have to be very careful how we conduct ourselves. You know, we have to be careful how we use the power. You know, power can intoxicate people. The things we are doing are not normal. They are not our culture. My goodness, if you talk about our culture, it's even more serious. It is very, very serious. You dare you not enter into the family affairs. You don't do that. That's why when we bury the dead, we go to our respective homes. But the family remains. They begin to talk, they begin to examine situations, and they begin to plan who shall do what, who shall take care of the widows and orphans. They go into all details when you are gone away. How do you just wake up and say, now, the the the government, because you are the head of state, it will take over. No, you don't take over. You can discuss with the family, you can negotiate with the family because the family is hurting, the family is mourning. And as they are mourning, you have to mourn with them. That's what is required of us to be in the house of mourning. Even this afternoon, I went into the house of mourning. That's where I'm coming from this afternoon. I was there to speak a word of comfort. My presence matters when people are mourning. I have to mourn with them. There is wisdom in the house of mourning. You dare not behave the way we are behaving. Politicizing a funeral, accusing orphans, accusing widows, dragging them into court. That's very strange. It's not our culture Zambians. We are a people who respect the dead. Now, what we have done is, I said, Lord, uh, do not lead us into temptation. Because this situation is leading us into temptation. Even the things that we should have not spoken. Some people have insulted the dead. How do you slander the dead who cannot answer back? How do you do that? You are not supposed to slander the dead, you're supposed to mourn with the dead. That's why this man here, Nehemiah, he was heartbroken. He fasted for some days because his father's city was passionate about the city. We must be passionate about Zambia. We must be passionate about our country or Zambia. Now we are being laughed at all over the world. We can't even know how to handle our dead. We have no respect. We have shamed ourselves so badly. So whoever is behind this, God said, You are cursed. It is a curse, not because I'm pronouncing it, your deeds have attracted a curse upon you. Even upon Zambia. But my prayer has been, no, God, we are not part of this. We are not part of this. Let them see to it and their children, and their children's children, not us. So God help us. So that as we proceed, let me also encourage the widow. Like you rightly said, I've walked with these people. I know what it feels and what it means. I once had gone through it when my daddy died. My mother cried and cried all by herself. I had to help my daddy to the house and take care of him. I watched as a little boy. Up to today, I know what it feels to be a widow and to be an orphan. But God is faithful. He says, Woe unto those who enact evil statutes. You know these powers that be have a tendency of making laws to favor themselves. God is saying, Woe unto them who enact evil statutes. Those who have evil intentions, they formulate laws to justify their evil intentions. And those who constantly record unjust decisions, so as to deprive the needy of justice. Listen to that. They are crafting laws to deprive the needy of justice and to rob the poor of my people of their rights, in order that the widows may be their spoil, and that they may plunder the orphans. Now, what will you do in the day of judgment and in the devastation which will come from afar? To whom will you flee for help? And where will you leave your wealth? Where are you going to hide all the wealth that you have gathered? Because punishment and judgment is very soon. So, woe unto you. You craft evil laws, to oppress the poor, to cause pain to other people. Woe unto you. What will you do in the visitation of the Almighty God? Listen to what the Bible says. Then I will I'll shut up and let everybody to speak to this matter. The scripture says, You shall not afflict any widow or any orphan. If you afflict him at all, and if he does cry unto me, I will surely hear his cry, and my anger will be kindled, and I'll kill you with a sword, and your wives and you uh shall become widows, and your children will become fatherless. God rises in judgment. God have mercy on Zambia. God have mercy on our beloved Zambia. We pray that God will have mercy on Zambia. We pray that God have mercy on Zambia. This cloud that is coming, hovering over Zambia, we reject it. We refuse it. That's not who we are. We will not afflict a widow, we will not afflict the orphan. But our prayer is that we may suffer with them, we may cry with them, we may walk with them, be encouraged. The father of the fatherless and the husband of the widow is God in his holy habitation. Far from it that we should be part of this as the nation Zambia. May God bless you and keep you as we continue to be encouraged. And I pray that the burying of the late president, the former president, will be dignified. Not by ill treating the widows, not by ill treating the orphans, will be dignified because we lift up our voices unto God and say, Thank you, God, for whatever this man did. We need to look at the good of a person when they are gone, not to look at whatever bad they did. What about you? Don't you have the wrongs you have done a lot? But we will forget about that. We remember your good. Every person has a good side and the bad side. When the dead die, when the living die, we got to encourage people, not to make them miserable. May God help us so that we can be wise by going into the house of mourning to encourage the bereaved. God bless you. And I'm here to answer questions.

SPEAKER_31 44:40

Thank you, Bishop. Before I let you go, Bishop, there's a question I asked. The significance of the body, even the dead body, I know you've tackled it. Just speak to that and uh maybe make some recollection where you know the dead body was referred to.

SPEAKER_21 45:00

Absolutely. Absolutely. If you read 2 Kings chapter 13, verse 20 to 21, 2 Kings chapter 13, verse 20 to 21, Elisha, the prophet, had been dead for quite some time. The grave had only bones, not even the flesh, bones. Then one of the soldiers, as the war was taking place, he was dead. As they were carrying him, he was dropped into the into the grave of Elisha. As soon as the body touched the bones, the Bible says he revived and became alive. Even in the grave. That's why when you die, dying in the Lord, because the anointing of the Lord will still be with you in the grave. Your blood will still speak and to cry to God. So don't tell it. The dead body is significant. You just can't do anything. You see, when you ill treat the body, it is speaking more about you, not about the body itself. You have no compassion, you have no love, you have no care. It is speaking more about you, you insult the dead. How do you insult the dead and you are the living? You must be very, very, you know, slow-minded. You are diminishing yourself. How do you even try to accuse the dead who cannot answer back? No, it's talking more about who you are than about the dead. He cannot answer back. He's gone. His body has been left behind for you to care for it. It cannot bury itself. It calls for people like you. God puts value on the remains of his people. That's why Nehemiah had to go. He had to risk his life. He stopped being a cupbearer. He became a politician. And he went and built the city, Jerusalem, and took care of the grave of his fathers. So it's not about, you know, the dead. The border is sacred. It is sacred. Abuse it. You can't do anything to what you could have done, you couldn't have done to the living. So God help us. Let's respect the dead. That says more about us. God help you and bless you.

SPEAKER_31 47:44

Thank you very much. Before I let you go, the last three days have been traumatic for the nation because of the matters we are talking about. But they kept on asking, why is a change silent? Why is the change silent? Why is the change silent? And I'm glad that you are one of the few that have now spoken loudly about this matter. What should we do? Just give us advice unto the nation and also to the government of President Hakainde Ichilema. As I let you go, please give your views.

SPEAKER_21 49:00

We may not be speaking before cameras, but we are speaking to our people in the churches. And then at the right time, we need to address the politicians. You are right. There are many, many, many bishops and pastors who have done absolutely nothing about this matter. They say, no, they are politics. Listen, whether you like it or not, politics is part of life. If something goes wrong in the nation of Zambia, it will affect you. Whether you be quiet or not, we need to provide leadership and guidance to people. So what we should do as a nation, Zambia, we know who we are. Let's bury the differences. Let's bury the servant of God with dignity. Let's unite and never politics eyes. This thing we have seen too. We have seen two. And the longer we prolong, a lot of things will fall in. Let's quickly put this to rest. May his soul rest in peace. May the soul of Ediga Chagwalungo, His Excellency, rest in eternal peace. And God have mercy upon us. In his stead. That's our prayer. And the church is behind the nation of Zambia. It is behind Zambia to lift it up from this mess that has come. These are values of other people, other faiths, not the Christian faith. We value life and we value the dead as well. May God help us. Thank you very much indeed.

SPEAKER_31 50:58

Thank you very much. This is a man of God, Dr. Paul Weupe, Revival Methodist Church on the Copper Belt in India. And he he came to be with us at such a short notice. Bishop, I'm grateful. I'll let you go and then I'll open the phone lines to our people.

SPEAKER_21 51:15

Thank you very much for inviting me. You're welcome anytime. This is our country. We need to do what we have to do, otherwise, we lose it all.

SPEAKER_31 51:25

Thank you, man of God. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 51:27

We want to set a precedent. Let them give us reasons why the current president should not go near the casket. And who has told them that he wants to be near the casket anyway? Who has told them that he wants to be near the casket?

SPEAKER_15 51:53

In our African tradition, death is sacred. The dead are treated with reverence. Families are accorded the highest respect in matters concerning their loved ones. To storm a mojo emochery, seize a body and subject it to procedures without consent is not only unlawful, it is culturally offensive and spiritually disturbing and empty. If a government can act with such disregard towards a former head of state, we must ask what protection remains for the ordinary citizen like you and me. This is a dangerous president. This incident sets a chilling precedent for Zambia. That the state can override families at will, that court orders can be ignored with utter impunity when inconvenient. That truth can be manipulated through fabricated claims. That power can be exercised without accountability. This is unchecked authority, an extreme abuse of the people's power conferred on those who govern on behalf of the people. Firstly, to the church. I wish to call upon all church mother bodies, bishops, pastors, and faith leaders across denominations to rise and speak with one voice. This is a moral issue that transcends politics. The church has always been the conscience of the nation. I urge you, Mother Church, to publicly condemn this sinful. To stand with the bereaved family in their time of distress, to remind the nation and its leaders of the sanctity of life and death. To uphold Zandia's declaration as a Christian nation, not only in word, but in action. Silence at such a time, dear church, risks being interpreted as acceptance. And that's it. To their royal highnesses and traditional leaders. I equally call upon our traditional leaders, the custodians of our culture, heritage, and moral order, to take a clear and principled stand on this matter. Our traditions are unequivocal. One, the dead must be treated with utmost dignity. Two, families must be accorded respect and authority over their loved ones. Three, cultural rights and processes must never be violated by force. I therefore urge our traditional leaders to condemn this act without reservation, to guide the nation on the cultural implications of such conduct and to help restore respect for the values that define us as a people.

SPEAKER_29 55:37

So I've only lamented that why should you be stripping me of these things and then pushing me and saying, no, we want to protect you. No, uh you see the meaning of the president to be saying, to be going without this or that. I said, I I I don't need you. You don't need me. So I was very clear. I've not complained at all. The time that I've complained is when I've been harassed. I said, you've stripped me of everything, but leave my liberty, my dignity, and my rights. That's what I'm saying, even now. You see, one minute I walk the street, somebody says, You can't walk the street because you're former president, you are in danger of being attacked, and people might attack you, and you'll be blamed as police. That's why we're following you. The next minute I said, But you really didn't know that I was former president. When you strip me of these things, please go and put your house in order. The next minute I want to go to church.

SPEAKER_31 56:33

Family, we are discussing uh this matter. There was an announcement today by President Hagainde H Lema that he will no longer be available to attend the funeral of the late president. This is in light of the illegal removal of the body of the remains of the late president from two mountains. The illegal postmortem that was done at a pathology center in Pretoria without a knowledge, consent, or authority of the family. Government is trying to blame the South African government. Both the South African government and South African police have said they have this is a matter for Zambia. It's Zambia that was doing this. Government has taken advantage of the ignorance of our people and is trying to say there's an inquest and investigation. True, there is an inquest and investigation that was started by a pressure group from South Africa. But in the magistrate court, in runback, the judge, the magistrate in that case has set aside 29th May 2026 to rule over their application for the request for the inquest and the request for an autopsy. So that matter has not matured. Which government wishes to lie, that they rely on this is a matter that was done by the South African police. The South African police could not have done this because the matters that are in court have not matured. There's a ruling coming up on 29th May over the request by this progressive pressure group of South Africa to conduct an inquest and also to seek an autopsy. There is no authority that has given them powers to collect a body and do a postmortem on it. We had Dr. Weupe, Paul Weupe, presiding bishop of Revival Methodist Church, and he was enlightening us from the spiritual side what this means. The lines are open, you can call and make your contributions. Already at the caller, I guess they've cut the line, but the lines are now open. You can call and we can um we can hear from you. Uh the lines are open. Let's have this discussion. President Akainde Chinema says he's no longer available to be present at his funeral. This is according to um to news diggers. They are quoting the attorney general.

SPEAKER_18 59:21

Hello, good evening, uh Honorable Emanuel Mamba Um Donoska and I'm calling from MC.

SPEAKER_31 59:29

Thank you, thank you. Kindly make your contribution, Father.

SPEAKER_18 59:34

Thank you so much.

unknown 59:36

Um, I would like to thank um Bishop Upe. Po Weopen, yes, I would like to thank Bishop Uwe, very courageous. He is in Zambia, and for him to come out in that way.

SPEAKER_18 59:52

Uh indeed, I appreciate. And we thank his intervention. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_31 1:00:00

I I notice he's actually watching, he hasn't left, he's still in the studio, so he might answer some questions. Uh, Bishop, I notice you haven't left. Please stay. Sometimes it's better you watch it from here. And uh, if there are questions directed to you, Bishop, I'll I'll let you intervene. Thank you for staying on. So we are privileged, Bishop Dr. Popwe is in the studio. Uh, I thought he had left because I'd released him, you know, is he's at the a long day. He had the church service, went to a funeral. So I thought I could release him, but he's in the studio. So for any callers, is is listening, is watching the program from our studio, so I can bring him anytime. Thank you, Bishop.

SPEAKER_18 1:00:43

All right, thank you so much. And uh now, uh Bishop, I would like to reason with you with what has transpired in the country.

unknown 1:00:52

Uh, first of all, we understand and we um we uh we understand the preoccupations, the worries of the Zambian people. They are now asking help from the church, which is uh which is very right, which is very correct.

SPEAKER_18 1:01:11

Because matters concerning spiritual and ethics and moral matters, I think the church is the best um entity uh to answer to those questions. And now so um I'm happy we talked very well and talked about the importance of the body.

unknown 1:01:39

Uh being a Catholic I would like to share this if you can give me a few minutes. I would like to share this to you.

SPEAKER_31 1:01:49

Thank you, Father Oscar.

unknown 1:01:51

And I would love to open to um maybe Lisa, if you can make a comment ticket, please welcome. Now in Zambia we have uh multiple uh denominations, Christian denominations, and so um what happens? I talk in terms of me as a Catholic. What happens from the Catholic? We respect the different denominations, Christian denominations, and so you will understand that Madame Pestalungo belongs to a different denomination. Madame Estalungu is not Catholic, and um the daughter to Madame Pestalungo, she is Catholic.

SPEAKER_18 1:02:45

The other members of the Lungo family, I would not pronounce myself. All I can remember is this Dr.

unknown 1:02:54

Eddie Gajwa Lungu at one time he started asking to be baptized in the Catholic Church.

SPEAKER_18 1:03:04

Now this is just a preamble insofar as the spiritual uh um situation of the room. I'll listen myself. Um I'm I'm not important, I'm not important in the church because we have bishops, we have we have uh non-sur, apostolic nunsues, we have uh vaccine generals in the country, we have uh vaccine, and other people secretary general to be Catholic bishops.

unknown 1:03:40

So I am very uh I'm just an ordinary uh pastor in the Catholic Church.

SPEAKER_18 1:03:48

Now what I would like to share with the Zambian people is this I would like giving the bishop to reflect on this point to say to the Zambian people that the point was not in the government hands, but Bishop Will is for you.

unknown 1:04:15

This is going to be a question for you.

SPEAKER_18 1:04:19

The point of NCO in South Africa was not in the hands of the Zambian government. Now don't know how many days have passed. That horrendous action has happened. Opening his body according to what they are telling us. Examination, medical examination, we don't know all which parts of the body. We don't know. So it's just like so now taking all those things. If the Zambian government was not involved, this is a question to you, and to our honorable one, my dear, I I respect them. How did you bring to the Zambian people such problems? If the Zambian government is not involved, why haven't they sold the Zambian the African South African police? Why hasn't any official from our country gone to South Africa to reclaim the body of the former president? Gentlemen, why are we creating a monster for ourselves? Why are we creating a monster for the Zambia people in a beloved country? Look at the international reports. Everyone is saying, you told us the government of Zambia now is now holding the body of former president Edika Chagwalung. And then you come out and you say, no, the body was in the hands of the South African. Do you understand how grave and how serious this event is? How can we reach this extent? Just using politics. So Bakatoli K for Babomba Pani Milan, Bakatoli, Kaba Mwamba, Ba General Welba, Ba Bishop Win, Mumfre Wino Win. But this is very serious. When we construct what we say, parishes, when we open a church, we put a remain of a saint, and that parish is going to be named after that saint. I give you an example of my parish. It's called Saint Augustine. So what happened? We got from Rome a relic. We call them relics. A relic of the Saint Augustine. A record. What is a relic? It might have been a piece of cloth of Saint Augustine. One or something that belonged to Saint Augustine. A card, a t-shirt, whatever. A piece of it. We put it on that altar, and that church is constructed. So we construct a church basing on what we call the relics, which belongs to the dead saints. But we don't win the difference. We as the Catholics saw my parish is called Saint Augustine. So I know that the relic that the Catholic Church gave us from Rome from the Vatican was a relic belonging to Saint Augustine. And that's why our parish is called Saint Augustine Parish. What is wrong with what has happened is whoever opened that body of Isel, whoever broke and opened the body of EasyL. Did he have the blessing of the government? We all know that that person, those people, did not have the blessing of Madame Estalungo. Why do I mention Madame Estalungo? Because she is the widow, the wife of Isiao, and she is not yet dead. She is alive. Did they ask you permission? She has said, she has not mentioned any word, but we have seen the silence, the cry. We understand the suffering of that woman. She has not said anything. What we have heard, we have heard from the spokesperson of the Lungu family, who is honorable Makebizulu. May God bless you. Make zulu, may God bless you. What you have done. May God bless you. It doesn't matter whether you become a president this year, next year, the other year. Mr. Makebizul, God will bless you. When you do something wonderful for the dead people, Jesus Christ, he was a rich person who talked to Pontius Pilate and said, Can I take the body of Jesus Christ and go and bury it solemnly? And he was given the authority. Okay, take the body of Jesus Christ and go and bury it solemnly. Zambian people, how do we reach to this extent? How? So, me, I'm just a simple person. The way the bishop said Bishop Wang, don't think that the churches are not doing something. This case, this is what has happened to Amwamba. It's not a question of social media. This, what has happened, is so serious, is very profound, which regard which requires serious intervention. Insofar as the Catholic Church is concerned, they are going to listen to what Tasila Lungu is going to ask to the church because Tasila Lungu is a Catholic. Insofar as what Wamamadam Esther Lungu is going to ask to the congregation where she belongs to, only Wamadam Esther Lungu is going to mention that. We respect the privacy and the diversity of worshipping Bazan Baba Catholic. We don't have the monopoly of worship. We respect. What happened was evil. What happened was against the norms and the condition of our nation. What happened is actually anarchy at its best. There is no other means or ways we can actually describe this.

unknown 1:15:51

It's a disagreement to our country.

SPEAKER_18 1:16:03

And I know and we've led there's a narrative that they're trying to push, but we are spiritual people, we are they can fool some people, but they can't fool everybody. Now the Zambians know what it is. And I'm here to make a call, Ambassador Mwamba. This coming election in August 13th, it's again it's night against darkness, and people should understand it. It is not an ordinary, we have seen it.

unknown 1:16:59

What is coming in August?

SPEAKER_18 1:17:02

I'm calling upon all Christians, and I'm I'm serious about this. I'm calling upon Christians.

unknown 1:17:09

What we have is choose between light and darkness. That is my call to believers in Zambia.

SPEAKER_18 1:17:16

You, a Christian nation, choose between light. God has wanted you to see and understand what is happening.

unknown 1:17:24

Now God has exposed all these things. The rest is for you.

SPEAKER_18 1:17:29

God will not carry you and impose himself on you, he just reveals the truth. You make a decision as Zambians. Do you want darkness or you want light?

unknown 1:17:40

I end my submission. Thank you.

SPEAKER_31 1:17:42

Thank you very much. The lines are open. I don't make your contribution.

SPEAKER_09 1:17:50

Thank you, Ambassador Mwamba. This is Siniangwedani.

unknown 1:17:53

Mr.

SPEAKER_31 1:17:53

Siniangwedani, make your contributions.

SPEAKER_09 1:17:56

Thank you. Ambassador Mwamba, before I make my contribution, I want to say thank you, Ambassador Mwamba, for the job that you have been doing. Ambassador Mwamba, seeing you on Friday four hours.

unknown 1:18:21

Thank you.

SPEAKER_09 1:18:22

My points are this to say, I want to be part and parcel of this you know. Is this how we are going to be as a nation? They took the body, and if it was not for President Makebizulu, exposing them.

unknown 1:19:03

After doing that, do you know what they did?

SPEAKER_09 1:19:06

They abandoned the body. This is how evil these people are. And let's not look at politics. Who is who saying this? They took the body, they did everything that they were doing with the body. After they had satisfied themselves with what they were doing, they abandoned the body. If it was not President Makebi Zulu, yes, I'll now talk politics. Ramake Bizulu has shown to us. Yes, we talk, we talk. It took him less than 24 hours to stop what he's doing to go to South Africa. If it was not what he did, it would be another story. Because it's because of Ramake Bizulu, we know that they have abandoned the body. Then there's another point. The same people that took the body, they threatened the staff at the hospital. This is the report that we are getting from Gandava Uyoyo. They threatened the staff. What was that all about? I end my saying.

SPEAKER_31 1:20:27

He was exposing them immediately after the president died. Two days later, they went to pick the body and threatened the staff. And the staff said, You cannot pick this body. You need the authority of the widow and the family. So that tweet is being circulated now. But they've been trying to get the body from day one. I just wanted to put context.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:48

Thank you, Bamwamba. And I love that you've corrected me, but still, it's still the same.

SPEAKER_25 1:20:53

Correct, correct.

unknown 1:20:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:55

So on my last point, Bamba was a shame on them all that have been part and parcel of what they have done and what they're doing. God is watching, and God is going to have a final say. Zambians, my prayer is this, and my co-opon. Let us think of ourselves as Ubuntu. We are children of God. And what is happening to ECL should never happen. Thank you, and God bless Zambia.

SPEAKER_31 1:21:24

Thank you, thank you. Uh uh Bishop Poe is still here, so at one time I'll bring him in just to come and give his um his comments. Um let's let's let's hear from uh from you. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and give us your contribution.

unknown 1:21:48

Hello?

SPEAKER_31 1:21:49

Yes, caller. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and give us your contribution.

SPEAKER_14 1:21:54

Yes, please, Ambassador. I'm calling from Shingola. My name is uh Agnes Tonga.

SPEAKER_31 1:22:00

My dear sister, make your contributions.

SPEAKER_14 1:22:03

Yes, please. You know, this government has this behemoth. We are very hurt, many of us Zambians that have been following this saga since our former president Ediga Nou died. Because the president cannot claim now, after the post-mortem, which was not sanctioned by the family, that you will keep away from the barrier program if you to bring peace. What has he been doing all these 10 months? And then our attorney general comes up with a statement to say we did not have the body physical. What does he mean? There was representation there from the uh from the Zambian Embassy. The lady from the Zambian Embass was representing the Zambian government, wasn't she? So how can he say we don't have the body physical? And we all know that whether it is a forensic post-mortem or an ordinary post mortem, it it has the beginning. The beginning. The family did not complain that their loved one had been poisoned. It was here from social media and everywhere else. So, how can they take a body to go and conduct a post mortem without a request from the family? Who gave them the permission? Ambassador, what I want to know is uh is there any legal implications over this post mortem that was done?

SPEAKER_31 1:23:46

Very, very seriously. First, what they've done is they've desecrated the body. The law protects even the deceased person. What they've done is to desecrate the body. That is why, even within the law, it requires that uh authorities are given permission by the family. That's what our laws provide for in Zambia. That's what the laws provide for in South Africa. We had uh Dr. Kasese Bota, you know, Ambassador Dr. Kasese Borta. She's a medical doctor, medical practitioner of very, very distinguished service to her country and across the world. She said she has never heard where a postmodium has been done, unless there was such public emergency, you know. But what is a public emergency in doing? So, no, no, no, so no, my dear sister, the legal implications are many.

SPEAKER_14 1:24:40

Yeah. Ambassador, I would suggest that after the burial of the former president, there must be a legal case against the Zambian government, against the South African government, and against the same lady from the Zambian embassy that was present during the post mortem. And for a high-profile case, how can the South African government send a sergeant? Isn't that suspicious enough?

SPEAKER_31 1:25:13

No, we've since established my sister can say it on record that what the government is doing is a lie, it's just an entirely corrupt process, even the way they are using the police. Because the magistrate court, where there is a request for an inquest at the post mortem, the ruling is only coming up on 29th May. So what authority did they use? So they are abusing even those police officers they are using.

SPEAKER_14 1:25:42

And if the president knew that it was as simple as staying away from the whole process, why did he not do it last year? Especially after the talks failed between the two parts. Yes, yes, and why the government, the Zambian government, always wanted to collect the body without the family. Because if I'm not mistaken, the pre the former president died on a Thursday. On a Saturday, the government of Zambia sent people to go and collect the body without informing the family.

SPEAKER_31 1:26:16

Correct. Correct, correct.

unknown 1:26:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_31 1:26:20

And that's what Did the journalist from BBC, while he was at Damon TV, exposed.

SPEAKER_14 1:26:27

Yeah, that's how that's how this issue began. Because I'm even wondering, people are referring this to the Kaunda case and what it is. Who was the first former president to die in Zambia was President Mwanawasa, isn't it?

SPEAKER_25 1:26:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_14 1:26:44

When pre when President Mwanawasa died, there was a discussion between government and the family in the way they wanted to bury their loved one.

SPEAKER_26 1:26:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_14 1:26:54

And they collaborated. It was the decision of the late Maureen Mwanawasa, the wife, to take the body throughout Zambia in the provinces so that the Zambians would have a chance to do a body viewing instead of traveling. But when President Chiruba died, the family you were there yourself. Yeah. By the way. And the family refused it, isn't it?

SPEAKER_31 1:27:17

Yes. Yeah, and they also refused the postmortem because uh Dr. Chuba had refused any operation on his body. There was a proposal for a hair transplant, he rejected it. There was a proposal for a pacemaker. His belief said my body should not be defunct. That was his position at the time. Yeah. I remember even the case of Dr. Kahunda, my sister. I'm I'm interrupting because you are raising very fundamental issues. The case of Dr. Kaunda is that um uh um uh Kawa H said my father wanted to lie next to Betty Kahunda. Government. Said we wish that the president be buried at embassy part. Pachika Unda came in the court process. Pachikaunda, the eldest in the family, came and did the public statement that as a family we have sat, we have voted, and they had outnumbered Kaweche. And they said as a family, we have since given consent to government to bury. Abacca uh Pachikaunda is alive. We can testify. And you can go back to the newspaper. The family gave consent.

SPEAKER_14 1:28:32

Yes, it was not, it was not the people of Zambia must hear this. It was not the government of Zambia that sued the Kawunda family. No. It was Kawete against the siblings. Yeah. He's the one that went to court. But after they settled out of court, and Tanji Kaunda came to the government to say, no, we have outnumbered the ones.

SPEAKER_31 1:28:55

We've agreed as a family, yes.

SPEAKER_14 1:28:58

We have agreed as a family. That's when the program went through. But one, how do you start digging a grave without any family members in place to choose the site within the area? How do you want to bury Kavesha is on record saying if the family doesn't want, we have the right ourselves as a government to bury the late president without the presence of the family. How do you do that? Because the people of Zambia can be very uh conservative. Because even if you have chosen to say, we are going to bar at Embassy Park, we are going to bat at Memorial Park or anywhere in Zambia, the family should be there to choose to say no. We want the grave to be on this side. They were not there. The Zambia government started digging that grave before they even consulted the family. They went on a Saturday to go and collect the body without even consulting the family. Had it not been the mother actually following the family to say there is people here who want to take the body, they would have taken it.

SPEAKER_31 1:30:06

Yeah. Thank you, my dear sister.

SPEAKER_14 1:30:09

They sat together. The family says we want to take, we have been following. It's not that because we've not been talking, we are foolish. No.

SPEAKER_26 1:30:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_14 1:30:21

We wanted to give some of us wanted to give respect to the family. They sat together. And the family wanted to protect the ball for the body to Nola and correct. But yes, they had to forego that because that's what negoti you do in a negotiation. You lose some, you win some. And the government wanted to repatriate the body from South Africa. They also forego that and they agreed. But the government itself changed the program. Ambassador, we have a problem, and the problem is our president himself. He is too suspicious. I don't know why he believes in witchcraft. He does. Because if you have not been following, let the examination people here, we have been following this. When former president, the late former president happened together, when they came out of that house, President Lou extended a hand to say hello. I mean to shake hands as a sign of agreement. We are friends now, we have agreed. President HH refused to greet his former president. When they were handing over power at the stadium, some of us were there. He refused to receive the instruments of power from his former president. Instead, the entity camp received the instruments of power. He has refused to move into state house where his predecessor was living. Yes. He has also refused to get onto the plane, which his predecessor was using. He is also suspicious of his predecessor. So what kind of a leader are you who is going to be suspicious of your own people?

SPEAKER_31 1:32:40

Thank you, my dear sister.

SPEAKER_14 1:32:43

This case has reached this far because he refused, he failed to provide leadership. Because if he had provided leadership, can you imagine Ambassador Mwamba, what would have happened if he had taken his wife to South Africa? You know, if Of Eva Nagashikuwadinaka, the president's wife would have gone to South Africa to go and see Mama Esther. I'm sorry, my sister, this has happened. I'll talk to my husband. Can we do this? Or even the president himself. What failed him to go to South Africa? Go and sit with the late president's wife. I'm sorry, I didn't know that it could get this far. He is my brother, we are the same people. That's what he should have done. But what he didn't do we kept on Didi Daddy. Now that the post mortem has done, and everyone is crying foul, saying they have stolen body parts from the late president. That's when he says no, it's okay, I'm not going to be there. Who is going to believe him? Who is going to believe him? No one. Except those ones that are foolishly, actually. You know, Ambassador, you know, I don't use such words, but I'm so I'm so upset. Who is going to believe it? They will not believe it. They have he has said that after he should have said that before the post-mortem. The Lugu family, they respected the law. If they wanted, they could even have bent the body, incremented the body in South Africa. They could even have made deals, maybe, and done it. But they didn't because they respected the law. That is why you hear the people of Zambia now say, and this is for our candidate, Makebizu. Let him withdraw. Because all this, part of it is also his fault. He should not have left South Africa to come and try and be a president. He should have stayed there. He should have shown his loyalty was in making sure the local family was safe, making sure that what is protected. He did not let him just withdraw and work with other countries. Whoever they would choose. Because it was wrong for him to leave South Africa to come and try and be a president in South Africa when he knew what kind of people he's dealing with. He knows them. So if he becomes president, what is going to happen? Nothing.

SPEAKER_31 1:35:26

Thank you, my dear sister. And I'm glad that you identified yourself. She identified herself as calling from Shingola and she has spoken.

unknown 1:35:50

Didi from Mundola.

SPEAKER_31 1:35:51

Didi from Mundola make your contributions.

SPEAKER_10 1:37:08

That man is guesting. But I can laugh, you come.

SPEAKER_31 1:39:26

Thank you, Maya.

SPEAKER_10 1:39:32

This government satisfied.

SPEAKER_31 1:39:42

She's still talking. I just wanted to clarify. The person who did uh the autopsy, of course, is an Indian, but she said we should just be very specific. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_17 1:40:02

Thank you very much, my brother.

unknown 1:40:04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_31 1:40:09

Mr. Muntumususu, make your contributions.

unknown 1:40:13

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_17 1:40:14

First and foremost, I want to thank Bishop for the insight that he had given.

SPEAKER_31 1:40:20

Yes, Doctor Wupe.

SPEAKER_17 1:40:24

Thank you very much. For some of us who have been saying these things in the spirit, my brother Ivan Woma, I've been all over all these things that is unfolding, it's just vindicating the issues that have been putting up throughout throughout. I would call him with call me at night with discuss. So what is there you see is like we knew that it would come to this point. Immediately UPND won. We knew that this is a battle between evil and good. It's a spiritual battle. We knew that. And immediately UPND came into office, they started by attacking the church. The Bible says that you have got eyes, but you can't see, you have got ears, but you can't hear. What is the church was under attack? The other time I came across a letter that was written and prophesied contain the Catholic Church. Contain the Catholic Church. Because most of these people anywhere here and there, they have been bought. And what they did first is to introduce hunger in the nation. And you know, when a person is hungry, he can fall for anything. That was a strategy they used. Now the churches, you remember that SDA church man who told P and HH on his face that in that seat where you are seated, there were a lot of presidents and they are gone. And you will also be gone.

unknown 1:42:50

You remember that SDA pastor who told you my brother? Yes, yes, yes. You are a journalist, my brother.

SPEAKER_17 1:42:56

Look for that SDA pastor and tell me where he is now. The entire SDA issue, no SDA, you know. You know, in the Y S D A, no, in the pundit in the what in the order. It is just to blind you. The entire church there because of money. If they can't talk, they can't correct anything, they are just watching. Because God says, You have made my church a dean of thieves and criminals. People who can use speak for God in Zambia are gone. They're gone. We have no money.

unknown 1:43:40

I don't know what crime we have committed. We are going to seek counsel.

SPEAKER_31 1:43:45

So the man you are talking about is yeah, is Dr. Webster Chavez. We have a video here, we've played it several times. He was deputy president for the Seventh-day Adventist Church on the Copper Belt Province Conference and was removed shortly after the following week. He was removed after he gave that powerful, powerful, powerful preaching.

SPEAKER_17 1:44:08

Because you see, these things we laugh. We laugh because these are issues Ambassador Manuamba. We have been talking about for quite a long time. This is a spiritual battle. This is a spiritual battle. In Japan, that operation you saw in Africa was a well-arranged and orchestrated move. My elections are coming near, and therefore, these things are supposed to be done before the elections. The man is saying the Zambian government never got position of the body. You go, you hire a person to carry out a postmodem on a board. You hire a person to carry out the postmotor on the board, and you say that you're not in possession of the board. So what we are saying is that we also are the people, I think we offended God. We must be able to thank God to seek forgiveness from God that God can forgive us over this case what that we have bestowed against this nation of Zambia.

SPEAKER_31 1:45:22

Finally, conclude quickly. There are so many calls. Oh, my phones are ringing. We need to get a few people more.

SPEAKER_17 1:45:29

So, in my conclusion, what I'm saying is that this is a spiritual battle. This is a battle that we all need to be on our knees, otherwise, physically, we are not going to manage to do this job. Because Uja Moon Hulipatari, Ujamun.

SPEAKER_31 1:45:54

Thank you, thank you very much, my brother. Um, Cola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contributions quickly. Make your contributions quickly.

SPEAKER_19 1:46:11

Okay, my concern. Uh, first of all, thank you for the for the for bringing up the dishouse in uh talked a lot of things that people have been wanting to be over this month. And thank you to you. Uh, it's a very sad moment uh to say uh a few words on this issue. Remember, there are issues that uh we know that uh the president uh HH will soon abandon this process because they have done whatever they wanted to do. And I'm just reaching out to many Ghanians that come 2021, come 15 August this year, we should we should protect voting in a way that we should actually give them even those who are doubtful, it is the time that these people they should be voted out because we have seen that their act, their wish, their doing is nothing but evil. Not saying of God in my conclusion. We saw to put uh they might say that who was just saying that these people are thinking that it can still be above as cabo the action, yeah. Shame on those people, but I know that God will come, uh God will give us the right uh judgment on this matter. Thank you.

SPEAKER_31 1:47:30

Thank you very much. Uh, there are so many people waiting. Let me just process them quickly. Hello, it looks like a lady here. Hello, my sister. Tell us your name and where you're calling us from.

SPEAKER_20 1:47:41

Uh hello, umbassador.

unknown 1:47:44

Uh, this is Wupe calling from Kababe.

SPEAKER_31 1:47:46

Wupe from Kabo Maker Contributions.

unknown 1:47:49

Um, I think it's um whatever has happened.

SPEAKER_20 1:47:53

I think um for chamber, um president can be silent for ten months. He's never said anything, he's continued doing his own thing, and only to come out after these um suspicious minutes taken. It is very suspicious. Um the body went meeting after um social media meeting, please and say we have the body now custody. When the post-mother came through, we were silent. We expect the post-mother monument. He was silent with the government. In the later, he comes and says we were not with a physical um physical position of the body, which is very, very surprising. I think this court has to really express who they are. And to come as badly as it is. Because it's difficult to win in a country. Because it's a constitutional station with the president in the public domain who was done in parliament. What has changed today? Is it after the constitution sometimes saying he will stay hungry? Can you stay away? No responsibility was given. What has changed today? This remains in suspicions. But it is a memory. Um president. So if these people are. Why is it that they are using two different measures? If it suits them, it's okay. If it doesn't suit them, they say you're primitive. I think these people need to be serious. And I think it calls on all the opposition leaders to come together and do the right thing. Because this has happened to the former president who just who I think who deserves respect even in his death can happen to any of them if this government is not uh taken away. So I think that the country needs answers from Makabisha. And I think let them keep quiet. Then my tela statement Leno change. I think that for me it's so worrisome. Come these elections, I think people need to go out and vote. Thank you, Ramamba, and thank you to Father Pambo and the Bishop for coming out so boldly. Hopefully, we're going to have people who are calling themselves leaders of the church in our country to come out as boldly as they are, to come out and speak the truth. Not okay, even when you've seen things are truthful. Let's do the right thing. Thank you, Ramamu.

SPEAKER_31 1:51:02

Thank you very much. Thank you. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and give us your contribution. After this caller, I will invite Bishop to come on and give his views, and we can release him. What do we got in Mamonkong? Wamung konge. Hello? Hello? Oh we seem to have is just on mute. Hello, good evening.

SPEAKER_30 1:51:43

Yeah, you don't want to hold the share. Ambassador.

SPEAKER_31 1:52:08

Oh, what if you share somebody? Ah, okay.

SPEAKER_30 1:52:20

Ambassador in Mundi Charles. Very important. Because government conclusion wisakebsuru. Which means we table for because government. Okay, can she wa propaganda? Wa propaganda wa ambassadia. Walisa and boy kuwe nobali. But you pose a kwam of the government. Uku still assignment government.

SPEAKER_31 1:54:36

Thank you. He gives his remarks now that he has listened to you, then we resume after he's given his views, then we resume more calls. There are so many calls. Yes. Man of God, you've spent time to listen to our people. At least you have a window of what your feelings are. Please make your comments.

SPEAKER_21 1:55:00

Sure. Thank you very much indeed. Let me begin by correcting. My name is Bishop Whoope.

SPEAKER_31 1:55:11

Oh my God. I'm so sorry, Dr. Wupe.

SPEAKER_21 1:55:15

Well, that's alright. That's alright. Um let me begin by reading a scripture because we are here now to provide guidance. Let's look at the book of Genesis, chapter twenty-nine, and verse twenty-nine up to thirty-two. This is when Jacob, you know, was giving instructions to his children concerning his burial. He says, And he charged them and said unto them, I am about to be gathered unto my people. Bury me with my fathers in the cave that is in the field of Ephron, the Hittite, in the cave that is in the field of Macapella, which is before Mamre, in the land of Canaan, which Abraham bought with the field of Ephron and Hittite for a possession of a burying place. Now he's giving instructions. There they buried Abraham and Sarah his wife. There they buried Isaac and Rebecca his wife, and there are buried Lakah. The purchase of the field and of the cafe that is therein was from heath. Now look at the details. He's about to die. Then he gives specifics concerning his remains. He's so detailed that he specifically goes into all the details and who bought what and where is it located. These things are there. The living must honor what the dead, I mean the living who now become the dead, leave behind. We cannot overlook the importance of what the deceased person left behind. So very interesting. He gave all the details. In another text, Joseph also said, Do not leave my bones in Egypt. Carry them with you. And that's what they did. They didn't leave the bones of Joseph in Egypt when they were free. They took those bones with them and buried them in an appropriate place. This idea of trying to make you know this former president to lie where the state wants. Well, give it a choice, give a choice to people. Tell them, do you want to be buried there? Or don't make it mandatory. Because these things have a certain attachment to the roots. We have what you call the genealogies. You know, the genealogies, this one was born from this one, this one was born from that one. And some people want to be buried where their beloved ones are. So I challenge our government not to overreach too much into family affairs, they are too sensitive. In a family, there are structures as well, and there are people who have the right to make decisions in the family structure. Yes, we can negotiate with the government, but you cannot make me cease to be in the position where I am in the family. No, that doesn't happen. I will not opt out of my family. I can never quit being a member of the family. That's what it is. I'm born in it, I will die in the family. So let's give people leeway to make decisions as to where they should be buried. Now, I've heard a question about I made a movie very touching. I still have it. It is a soft copy. No compromise. We are making big let me talk about Makebi, the nickname they have given him. It is very sad. You must be very unfortunate. Because those people, they risk their lives, take care of you in your dead, you know, body. They take care of you nicely, and so on. Then let's counting others using into L the people who work these law jobs make your life what it is. You know, civilized life is because of those but yabapyanga, abatu, pain chava makes civilized life possible. Ngamu ako politics, don't insult jobs of other people. Ngata mwe tefia kulanda just shut up, sit down and be quiet. Nikofulanda sa no kumana extent. Ya kuwa kuave na Zambia. Insultingabantu elamu la tefio. Ma undertakersu America, butila undertaker. And those people are rich in America. It's in Zambia that they are poor. Undertaker, they are respected because they take care of you when you can't care for yourself. Those make civilized life possible.

SPEAKER_31 2:02:31

Thank you very much, Bishop. Thank you so much. Uh let's resume the phone calls. Let's let's begin to process them quickly. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and uh make your contribution.

SPEAKER_27 2:02:45

Hello, ambassadors, uh make your contributions. Makebsula in South Africa, family about South Africa, Makebi, the family of Landa, then Ramu and the month. But Makeb Zulu Namu Sambia were eminent, and in a putuna umfugi Makeb Zulu, no president. Bantu if fatula is not to look at the people who are in the house. That's why I'm like a body, I'm like, oh, my battery.

SPEAKER_31 2:08:06

Thank you, Mamma. Hello? Hello? Okay. Now I've got volume. I think the battery was flat. You can continue to contribute, my brother. The battery was flat.

SPEAKER_05 2:19:22

Can I proceed?

SPEAKER_31 2:19:23

Yes, proceed.

SPEAKER_05 2:19:39

But in those days, in those days advanced. Are you there?

SPEAKER_31 2:19:59

Yes, sir. We can hear you now. Yes, now we can hear you.

SPEAKER_05 2:20:03

Yes. Almost seven days now you lose appetite. Why am I sending the mumma? Waya the pull of moving. Family wa lungu. Ave neva kosa. Tatuabashti abandonit leva senda. U chish awala pesta. No muntu demine. Twa mile ke. Posefu a lefwa wantu. Walefu sala lumina wonaula. Family yawa lungo. Bafuite. Foya. Utuba fui te solum bashte fish onse. Inimba ta shaba mama esta intacha familia wa lungo. Nanfete. Baba pishamati pom fing pisha bipa. Baba sawa lango. Amazambiani. Natu filo forbalungu to filo. Pantu. Natalokawalesa. Natua chaffo forbalungu. Natu ima and we held accountebo. Gov menti na tu cafe, baby accountable tile. But na to sala, one doamase vas no kwat wenso. So the ken familia ba lungo. What can decide this values? It shall kissito. It's one of the tombini. Ulomobini. Wa familia valungo. The kenwa familyava lungo wasali, the cobala lungo ba toche. For me, what zap in to a lungo. There's no valung to come on the sweeping zambia. Walungu not to se vanya, not wasangas what lungo, c was one gashi. So I was the muko pulanga, temino alungo family, the kinebash decide to a foyer. If we m zambia two balung valale mzambia buno. Gaming so twenty pushwal each uh because you are now what exists for twenty twenty one. Takwa lungu value Zambia. Amazing should ask our government to be accountable. What happened in South Africa? Who told them to go and collect the body? Where did they get authority to do? Oh, it's a code for it's a Christianity. We cannot even it's a shame to talk about giving what president of a Sangu. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's only a buntu. I think we're a bit about it.

SPEAKER_31 2:23:45

Thank you very much. We begin to take the last call and we wind up. I'm so sorry, I didn't realize that the volume was uh off for I don't know how long it was. I think for a few minutes, the battery for one of the uh receivers was uh flat. Hello, caller, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from.

SPEAKER_13 2:24:13

Before I could say anything, uh trapped Madame Lera and uh Tatu Umpwa. That's why we continue talking. Tatu miumfu.

SPEAKER_31 2:24:27

Oh, I see.

SPEAKER_13 2:24:28

I see I don't know what really happens. If a tatu miumfu, you keep on me. I realized when you were talking to the other lady, yeah, she wasn't asking you. Even the other day, you were trying to interrupt me. I just came to when I listened to my voice, that's when I realized.

SPEAKER_31 2:24:44

Okay, no, I'll check technically what that is. Thank you.

SPEAKER_13 2:24:49

Okay, honored Mamwamba, you know, but some few points to make. Uh, if you can mention the four blanket, let's not add extra sort uh to a bleeding wound. Because in there was a lady I respected her so much. She started nicely, but towards the end, you know, she said something which really touched my heart. When she mentioned about should not have left South Africa, he should have he should not have left South Africa to come and be starting, you know, doing politics. He should have protected the body because if it would have been there, no. Because Maketi Zulu, even if he were to be in South Africa, there was nothing that wasn't he was going to do. And he wasn't living in the same house. Please bear with Makebizul. On this one, I totally disagree. Let's see. I know we are all emotional, but let's see, choose, let's talk. Right now, Makebi is doing something that no one may I beg you. Do not condemn Makebi Zuru. Yes, he's doing a great job. M Kwa. The last thing that is Ubuntu. I'm so glad that you brought Bishop Bupe. Now this in Biskanka Lakozi. He reached to the point, he spoke out. Now whatever has happened. Ubuntu. If aturibantu. I never mwambo kuding a nefio nanda Jonse. Nanda na mayo. U Kaliwa Mayova esta.

SPEAKER_31 2:27:01

Oh, she's cut.

SPEAKER_13 2:27:05

Hello?

SPEAKER_31 2:27:05

Yes, Maya. Yes, yes. You weren't missing there. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_13 2:27:11

But I was saying that a woman, I I will repeat this, I can repeat thousand times. A woman is a bearer. A woman, everybody is born of a woman. A woman is supposed to be respected under whatsoever, under what circumstances. They go everywhere and they speak about their countries. Why are you here? If you live well, president, no, no, no, no, no. But I'm still appealing to all the politicians, regardless of anything, to come together and do something.

SPEAKER_31 2:29:05

Thank you, Mike. Hello, Cola. I can see Mr. Sinyango from Canada is back.

SPEAKER_09 2:29:16

Thank you, Ambassador Wamba. Mike, I was calling you to stay out that we are not getting you. Oh now yeah, but uh as um just to contribute again, I'll talk about the church. No, the church is above partisan, but uh ask ourselves as church leaders if Christ came today, will you be happy with what I have been doing? Because your silence means that you are agreeing with the evils that are happening, and Christ is not evil, it's because our Lord that we serve is a God that brings light. So I'm asking and asking all these church leaders, what is your job as a church leader? Because your job is that it should speak the truth, and when the truth is hit, the people will know. Because if we put a brown envelope, it's a shame on you. Thank you, Ambassador Munda.

SPEAKER_31 2:30:14

Thank you, thank you. I apologize that one time we had lost volume. Hello, caller, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from. Daniel from Kepton, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_16 2:30:30

Uh, good evening, honorable.

SPEAKER_31 2:30:33

Good evening.

SPEAKER_16 2:30:34

Um, I just want to uh speak a little about uh South Africa, but uh, people should understand to say South Africa is not like coming from Quito Ambi Karapundora. South Africa has got laws, you need permits, you need uh documents to stay in South Africa. So uh even if you was going to be in South Africa, Ngatabari, Karapu, Mochari, or anything, these people were just crooks. They could have done anything to get the body, even if Makepe was there. And the other thing is, please, Mmantu, Ababa U PND, they've shown us that they don't stick to their way to N Babufi, any name you would want to call them Isha Wate Fisuma Eva Wada. So let's think ahead of them naive. My worry is even if the body came to Zambia, let's not forget that these people they are dang twist as well as at any point. Is the family of uh going to be safe? We can hear a situation where just after bury a babantubambuzi milanduba mutti family. So please just get as much information as possible on what they are planning to do. I would be very comfortable if they pushed burying the remains of uh the late president in South Africa so that when they are out of power, we can still come and do a proper uh funeral because this one won't be a proper funeral with us, not knowing what they are planning. Look at what is happening. Thank you very much, honorable.

SPEAKER_31 2:32:55

Thank you. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from.

SPEAKER_11 2:33:01

Hi, Ambassador. This is Queen Komi.

SPEAKER_31 2:33:04

Ah, my co-host, my co-host, please make your contributions.

SPEAKER_11 2:33:08

Thank you. Um, a few points here today, and uh also thanking our gallant son there, Makebi, and we we pray for God to continue guiding his steps and protect him, and we pray for Mama Esther Lungo and the entire family over there, and we we pray for the entire country to remain peaceful as we process this whole very difficult situation. But number one, we need to tell the truth and shame the devil. A crime has been committed against the former president in death, a man has been dehumanized and violated in death, and the Zandian government should explain this. Baka Vesha, your changing statements is not going to cut it this time. Lelomualandefi, my lumwalandefi. But Fwena Zamba, we must realize that this is how you p and they always do things and then they bury their head in the sun and expect things just to blow over and continue. But let us not stop talking. We should talk until Zambia. Zambians should not shut up over this issue. We should talk. We demand justice. Don't take Zambians for fools. Already propaganda, I think now where they have named five people to say you are you are now mwamba propaganda to discredit the UPND government. They are flipping the script. This UPND, they are masters of making me a victim villains. You know? Now they are being circulated on also social media as they are attacking the government. They are just switching goalposts to suit them. This is how they have been operating all these five years. If they are caught on the wrong side of popularity, then they switch the other side.

SPEAKER_31 2:35:46

My dear host, our people can see. Is it us who stole the body? Is it us who have mutilated the body? All we are doing is presenting the truth. And they'll try to accuse us of all sorts of things, but our people will see the truth. So we will just stand on the truth. What have they done? Like you have said, they have committed crimes against the late president. They have desecrated his body, they've conducted a postmortem on him without the authority of the family, without the authority of himself, as the Lord prescribed in South Africa. They've been trying to lie that South African police that have done this. The South African police process has not come to where they can do a postmortem. Because the judgment is only a ruling is only coming on the 29th of May from the you know from the magistrate court in Ranbek for whether an inquest can be done and whether a postmortem can be done. So where is the basis of what they have done?

SPEAKER_08 2:36:50

Exactly.

SPEAKER_31 2:36:51

So they will try. Does anyone need to pay anyone to tell the truth? So people can see through the lies.

SPEAKER_11 2:36:59

People can see Bamwamba, but he he who you know the the social media is about controlling the narrative, and that's why we should be here to debunk those lies and fact-check them.

SPEAKER_31 2:37:11

No, thank you very much. No, that's why we are we are broadcasting nearly every day on this map.

SPEAKER_11 2:37:16

Exactly. We shall broadcast until the cows go over the moon. But there are two things that I'm that I want to in closing.

SPEAKER_25 2:37:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_11 2:37:30

One thing is that since they say the police, South African police is the one who had the body, then this is a crime against a former head of state. What is the attorney general doing about it to rectify the situation? Because the South African police.

SPEAKER_08 2:48:30

And when I speak, I speak with every dance and fact. If yon day me ever nagu je a com for my room, I'm sure I can't do Mina because I think I see Kappa in. A day before he went to Barry, his sister-in-law. Immobashmoiring, I reach out before I speak. No, but this is getting out of hand. And in a chip pusha, not my son. I heard your apology, and you wanted to apologize for others. Let me ask you is my brother Mundubire is your molecule. Is my brother ready also to be a running mate to somebody else? The other point I asked JJ was pond. Challenge Papod cast yakwe. El walandirati, ba lungu vadi mutu minekuno. Kunganda kumwandi. Ukwevati Esa Alande naine. Elo ba lungu. That's what Shirfia Tayadi said. Ale Landa Tayadi. At my kebi zulu wo zibalungu's project. And Tayadi, adi tu ebere, look for that video. Tidiya mwamba ba mwambefina la landa. Tidiya mwamba program mwavika polu imbo. Mwaleta kofu wandi balandide. Mgata mwikwe. Aw look for that podcast ya kwa chirufiya tayadi. E alandi latba lungu ba di mwiti. E walet ta challenge abandu. Ale landat imwamweban tuna le mi eva. Atima ke bi bislulu. A dini project ya ba lungo. Because ba lungu. That was tayadi who was saying that. Ba lungu ba di mufumi nemu mundu viide. According to tayadi, ishirelandati, ba lungu, ba e vere shirufia tayadi. Acho ba fumi na mu mundu vide. Ni choamku mona ba bisho aikibanda. Chirufia tayadi a isalanda. Ati mwe nemu adishba tini nebo katolika. Ero ba lungu ba ishirandefio. Mwanda ali kanga anderanda paliba bishop aliki banda. Elo a isalanda. Ati naisiranda tima lungu ba di mutumine. Kunokunganda kumuandi. Ba mumbina yalanda na wo. Ba mumbipiri. She's still alive. Elo ba mbipiri valela vala landa. Gamuleva tindeve pobufi. Ude I challenge ba mumbipiri vakane. Efionala landa pano. I sa landa no kulanda tina di kene bunganda muni ba mumbipiri na di ngiri. Bali kwa tane mi pando shisuma. That was tiadi. Bati ba mumbini ba politician. Ew ba lungu wantumi nekuria. She answered me as a politician. Bushemu aditala mwangu fwa inga mumbipiri. Na chita respondi kurifiata yadi alandire. I've never responded. I'm talking kuri mwe. Mwema sapota wava mundubire. Stop provoking us, especially me. When I open my mouth, I've kept quiet, I've never even responded to Taiadi because some of us are working hard that all this opposition they should come together. Elo imwe, in this painful situation, mole elan defi bipadi makebi, gushemundubi de Gaina ni sta e kari South Africa. Ewa nawa lungwena. Is it not a beneficiary like in ne mumbi piri? Nedine was a housewife. Munduvire ni doya. Nistavai katane nana makebi. Gosemalende rapamokia k South Afrika. Please. And imumweva chtubafoni. We pushemunduvire. Is he also ready? If the others feel other candidates are better candidates like than him. Is he ready to take any other position? Or you think he's the only one who can be the president? Leirona Mieva. Stop provoking us before I respond to Diad. Nach Laiva na JJ. Nat JJ, don't pretend you were very close to Valungu. You know you, Jeje. Who plan B for Valungu was? That's what I was saying. So go say Ngamulefuya, you Otherwise, humanity will have to be a pie. Because we when I speak to speak with evidence.

SPEAKER_31 2:59:01

Thank you, my suma. Thank you, Mayo. Thank you. And that was our last caller, Mumbipiri. She's clarifying some matters. Um and I think she's defending, she's she's aging, you know, these opposition camps to stop attacking one another. There's just this. Um they will never attack President Hakainde each one, but they are quick to attack one another in the opposition. Thank you for that advice. God bless you, and we'll see you tomorrow.

SPEAKER_29 2:59:30

If I cannot move out of my country's and to go for medication at my own expense, and I'm pulled out of a plane to say go back home and die. That for me constitutes house arrest. I will not die, a peaceful death, if I was to die today without restoring PFO to what it is. By the way, I've been saying to people who want me to reconcile with the president that look, the only way we can start talking about reconciliation is for the man to begin restoring democracy. And how he restores democracy to me is by restoring the legitimate leadership into PFO, where we were on 23rd October 2023, where we had elected leaders like myself as president and others, including our SD and everybody. Once he restores that, he tells his people in the civil service to say, guys, can you correct this? The register record to show the true reflection of the leadership of the party, then we don't know how to go. They've done that with other political parties as a system, and I can't allow that. So we are going to fight. So talk of retirement, you retire when you are comfortable. But things are okay. But when you're an old man and you see things are being messed up, and you sit and watch the children. No, you put on your your warrior garb and you take your spear and your cigai and your chamtung and you can't fight with them. That's what they do. So that's what I've done. So I've come back because democracy has been disseminated. Democracy is killed. You know the political parties, they just pick and choose and go. If I cannot move out of my country, Zambia to go for medication at my own expense, and I'm pulled out of a plane to say go back home and die. That for me constitutes house arrest. I will not die, a peaceful death, if I was to die today without restoring PFO to what it is. By the way, I've been saying to people who want me to reconcile with the president that look, the only way we can start talking about reconciliation is for the man to begin restoring democracy. And how he restores democracy to me is by restoring the legitimate leadership into PFO where we were on 23rd October 2023.