HOSTING HARRY KALABA

LIVE NOW; We review the momentous speech by USA Amb. Michael Gonzales exposing corruption in the Government of President Hakainde Hichilema

Transcript

SPEAKER_15 0:56

We want change, we want change, we want change, we want change, yes, we want the change all the bully upon it, what we have the big boy, but it's one of the boys that don't find it up with this one. I want to be done, you must have been a book that you put out the power of the pinnacle, but my football speaker put on the point of the book, don't put it on the wheel, put it in the next one, but we've got to take the double.

SPEAKER_23 12:08

We remember thank you very much today. First of May twenty twenty-six. Today is Labor Day, and on this day we remember our workers who are totally distressed because their income, their earnings are yoked to Shylocks and microfinance institutions. They are victims of what we call predatory lending. They are not paid enough, and then they have to live on borrowed just borrowed income against their income just to survive. We're celebrating workers today, and I hope all stakeholders can look at the interest of workers. But here in America we celebrate it uh on on the first week of uh Monday in September. I'm privileged today that we are hosting Honorable Harikal, our citizen first brought him for various reasons. First, he's one of our former Minister of Foreign Affairs, longest serving Minister of Foreign Affairs. And then there's been an issue. The momentous and historical speech about going Ambassador, US ambassador to Zambia. That speech I'll be playing parts of it shortly. I thought that it was momentum, momentous that it required its own analysis. And Citizen First President Honor Buharikala, having been one of the chief diplomats with the president and one of the longest-siving foreign affairs ministers, I want us to dissect that speech. What does it mean? A lot of people you know as diplomats, I was privileged to have been a diplomat for eight years, our Zambia's High Commissioner to South Africa, our Zambia's ambassador to Ethiopia, and our permanent representative to the African Union and our permanent representative to the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa. I have a say about what diplomats do and say. You know, we are governed by restraint, we resolve issues behind the scenes, we rarely speak to the media, we rarely speak uh uh to the country where we are hosted, and you know, for Africa we've been driven by silent diplomacy, and uh uh Zambia has another way. Restrent collapsed a long time ago. Why? For various factors. Number one, our national budget is funded by external factors and by external institutions. So, for example, our biggest bilateral partner is the United States that gives us about half a billion dollars every year for the last 20 years. So they are the third on how you spend that money. They are the third if you peel for you steal or you subject that money to corruption. They have the third. The British know the countries that usually fund also our education and other sectors, they become vocal. Is it always that a diplomat must exercise restraint? Is it always that a diplomat must exercise restraint? No. Depends on circumstances. If there's threats of war, you've seen diplomats in Washington from across the world break out to the media, to plead with warring parties who are about to be belligerent parties, plead with them, you know, to withdraw from the war and retreat to diplomatic negotiations so that war can be prevented. I myself, I found myself in this very severe situation where we had xenophobic attacks in South Africa. There were the worst xenophobic attacks in 2008 against Africans 2015 when I was there, and 2017 we broke ranks and our privilege to have been the spokesperson for the ambassadors. They elected me as their spokesperson, and I was regularly on TV because we're shocked by the silence by the South African government. Shops and offices for Africans were being looted, Africans were being beaten, we're being murdered in cold blood, we're being shot, we're being attacked by mobs. And we had to speak out, you know, first to force the government to make a responsible citizen to restrain their own people from, you know, the lawlessness that was murderous lawlessness that was being displayed. And uh the townships were in terror, embassies were closed, I didn't close my embassy, we didn't, we left our lines open and we were ready to reach out to anyone. But many people remember that I became the voice against xenophobia on behalf of all the diplomats in Africa because our people were being attacked and killed, and there was terror in the township. So there I was as a diplomat on BBC, on CNN, on local TV and radio stations, pledging for restraint, reminding South Africans that we as Africans had kept them in their period of terror, that they were we hosted them freely and without, you know, that they were your brothers and sisters, and to treat their fellow Africans like that. So I was appealing to their conscience. And sadly, some are not even aware of their own their own history in South Africa, and sometimes they would come here and get surprised by the facts that we would give them. And for Zambia, who were privileged because the ANC was headquartered in Zambia for 30 years, and many leaders that became leaders in South Africa, including President Jacob Zuma at the time, lived in Zambia. Tabombek lived in Zambia. So I was able to appeal to their conscience, and we stalked out government, and government began to speak with restraint. Sometimes they were very careless statements. I remember one time I had to issue a condemnatory statement against you know uh king uh king king king not Butalesi, yeah, it was the King Butalesi of the Zulu people is a very powerful king in South Africa. But his remarks were careless and inciting. And you know, a king that carries a lot of weight, and the Zulu are militant people. So I had to call him out, call his statement careless, and his officer had to uh call me and uh uh uh uh uh uh you know try to understand why I was condemning their reverend king. I said the statement was careless, he will kill people with that statement, they had to issue a second statement clarifying what the king meant. At least it didn't really calm down, but it came down some people. So when the American ambassador speaks Greg is your largest bilateral partner, he has invested a lot of money in this uh uh uh uh uh in our country. And so we'll be speaking to all the issues that he raised, and uh I have Honorable Hari Kalava. This particular broadcast is being syndicated through Prime TV and KBN TV. They'll be joining us shortly uh when I bring Honor Bouhari Kalava. So, first let me just refresh yourself. The US Ambassador Michael Gonzalez has served in our country and uh he's been there since 2019. Remember, uh Ambassador Foot who the Zamian government asked to leave because he decided to support homosexuality in our country when it was outlawed, we are the charger for a period of two years, and Michael Gonzalez came in 2021, 2022, and he's been our ambassador since then. But we not that since since his presence, you know, government has engaged in the very things that president President uh Hakaine H Lema condemned the government because when he heard that the Zambian government had written to America to withdraw ambassador, the US ambassador, he condemned that action. But in his presidency, he proceeded to do the same, and we'll be discussing that in detail. But his speech has exposed the deep-rooted corruption in President Again Chilema. The corruption that has occurred even in in all the sectors, he has exposed it, the abuse of the law, the passing of an illegal constitution. It was a bare knack of statement, and I think it was justified. So we will be hosting Honorable Hari Kalaba. Um, and I can see he's in the studio. Let me just invite him. Honorable Hari Kalaba, good good good evening, and how's Lusaka?

SPEAKER_27 21:42

Good evening, uh, your excellency, and uh is it uh morning in the US where you are? Lusaka is okay uh under the circumstances. Yeah.

SPEAKER_23 21:53

I note that um the TV stations KBN and um uh KBN and uh Prime will be joining us. So I'll be calling uh uh you uh uh at uh half the the hour. I think we use the six minutes to play the speech by uh Michael Gonzalez. Is that okay, Mr. President?

SPEAKER_27 22:19

Perfect. That's perfect.

SPEAKER_23 22:21

Yeah, thank you very much. There, I'm privileged that the co-host in Citizen First President, uh Honorable Harry Calabar. I think that this speech was momentous and bring other speakers to speak to it. What did Michael Gonzalez say?

SPEAKER_00 22:44

For decades, the U.S. relationship with Zambia was one centered on aid. The United States has provided millions billions of dollars of assistance to Zambia, helping the country reach HIV epidemic control, contributing to a 20-year extension and increase in life expectancy, slashing malaria deaths, and truly impacting positively the lives of every Zambian alive today. But last year, when we paused funding to review our assistance programs, so much of Zambia's health system began to crumble almost overnight. Despite over seven billion dollars of health assistance since 2000 and the hard work of many Zambians alongside us, that crumbling system revealed that while we thought we were building capacity, successive Zambian governments had not built systems. Too often Zambian officials and leaders abdicated their responsibilities, letting the United States pay for health care, while officials diverted government funds to their own pockets across successive governments. Last year, I stood at a table and I shed tears before the world when I announced that the United States was cutting$50 million in health assistance. After years of pleading, I could no longer stand by while the Zambian government refused to stop or to take action to hold people accountable for the systematic and nationwide theft of U.S. provided medicines, while the Zambian citizens for whom they were intended went without. One year later, not a single notable person has been arrested since February of last year. Not a single notable prosecution has even begun. After a year's pause, or after last year's pause of our assistance, we resumed almost all of our health assistance. Over$400 million in assistance, including$75 million in medications alone. We continue to pay the salaries for over 23,000 Zambian healthcare workers, as we have done for decades. That is the legacy of America's support to the Zambian people. Now, I know that there have been alarmist allegations recently, but let me be clear. Any suggestion that the United States would withhold critical life-saving health care support from those Zambians whose lives, whose health depend on it, unless we get critical minerals is disgusting. It is absolutely impatently false. In reality, since October, my government has offered over two billion dollars in additional grant assistance for health and economic growth to Zambia. But we can no longer accept empty promises. The future has to look different. Zambian government must also increase Zambian funding, staffing, ownership of its systems. This isn't to impose our will. It's the only way that we know for Zambia to truly own a sustainable healthcare system and to enable robust growth. It's the only way we know to ensure that the system serves the people while finally breaking the pattern of aid dependence. Since January, however, like with so many of our other overtures to the Zambian government over the years across successive governments, we had effectively no substantive engagement from Zambian officials to move these efforts forward. Our calls go ignored, questions unanswered, meetings canceled, leaving us without even opportunities to speak, much less to engage in substantive deliberations. Instead of continuing to languish without engagement, the actual funding under our health MOU should have started this month. Instead, we've reached April 30th, still cobbling together funds for mismatched projects without an implementation plan to guide us forward under Zambian leadership, much less a finalized MOU that provides the strategic approach. We know that the Zambian budget today cannot even afford to pay the social services that are being provided. Not to mention the increased health care funding for the or the myriad of other huge budget commitments that seem to be pledged. We can't justify continuing to prioritize funding when the Zambian government also does not deploy its own resources. No longer will we lead while Zambian officials sit back unresponsibly. Quite simply, America can best support Zambia's sovereignty, Zambia's agency, Zambia's success, if we finally abide by the maxim and refrain from wanting development more than the Zambian government does. That said, what happens between governments, what happens between embassies? It's important, but it's only a small fraction of the broader relationships between countries. The ties between Zambia and America are profound, they're strong, they're everlasting. The connections between churches and civil society, between students, artists, researchers, academics, the bonds between communities, the union of our people, these are the essence of the US-Zambia relationship, and these will never fade. Too often people hope for change. They knowed what others should do. But hope is not a strategy, and we cannot control the actions of others. Only our own. And so as I prepare to leave this country that I love, I ask those of you whose country it is. Is this the Zambia you want? Are you on course to achieve it? If not, what action will you take to contribute to making that vision become a reality?

SPEAKER_23 29:16

Indeed, that's a question to Zambians. I ask those of whose country it is: what will you do about this, the corruption, the abuse of the law? What will you do? The American ambassador asked. He says, It's not up to us. Embassy to embassy can work. At this stage, we in we are joined by KBN and Prime TV. And for that audience, welcome. I'm hosting Citizen First President, Honorable Hari Kalava, to help me with a fundamental debate regarding this momentous speech by diplomat, the U.S. Ambassador to Zambia, who is outgoing. Let me just bring Honorable Hari Kalava. And what we'll start with first, let's get with the other issues that have um affected our country. Um, Honorable Hari Kalawa, thank you and thank you. We are welcome, Kebian and Prime TV audiences to this broadcast. Let's start with the other issues before we delve into this matter. The matter regarding the former president Edgar Lungo came up in court. It's a matter that is distressing not just the family but the entire country. We learned that our retrieval of the body illegally and our Zad Body subjected to post mortem without the presence of the family or its representatives and its lawyers. This has highly offended not just the family, but you know, all stakeholders. You are among those that spoke. Archbishop Ignatius Chama has spoken about other members of the clergy have spoken about that. Just uh uh speak to that matter regarding the happenings of the remains of the late president.

SPEAKER_27 31:02

Well, thank you uh once again, Your Excellency, and uh to our viewers who are following us from the various platforms. Um, Your Excellency, this is one of the darkest moments in the history of our country. Very dark uh moment that we are going through as a country. As I said last time, I never thought in my lifetime I would witness a moment like this, uh, where we would have the body of the former president, a man that ruled the country for seven years, uh, be treated in such a manner. I think uh Zambia has attracted shame, like I said last time. Uh, we must be ashamed of ourselves with the way these things have gone, and no amount of justification can honestly uh cover this kind of shame that we have gone through as a country. This should never have happened. Uh the other day we had a press briefing at the citizens' uh first offices, and uh Ambassador Kasese Bota, who's uh who uh who happens to be our deputy national secretary and also a medical doctor by profession, did explain the circumstances under which a postmortem can be carried out. And I was amazed, I mean I was amused to uh I was surprised really to hear that you cannot honestly do a postmortem without the family being available. And in this instance, we are not talking about any other family, we are talking about a former first family, people that sacrificed their own, people that lived a life that was helping Zambians uh to be treated in the manner that they have treated uh the former president is an abomination. This should never happen again in our country. This should never be seen again. This is one of the darkest moments Zambia has ever gone through. And it must be recorded in history that such a time should never see the day of light again.

SPEAKER_23 33:02

Thank you. Uh we are in the spotlight once again. There is the largest world's summit on human rights and uh you know digital rights that Zambia offered to host. I think they didn't seem to know what the conference was all about. It was about human rights, and it's the largest human rights conference. And at the last minute, it has been cancelled. Over 2,000 delegates were expected. When they, I think when the government looked at the details, they realized they've they're among the top offenders of digital and human rights, especially with the passing of cybersecurity and cyber crimes act that have stifled the democratic space, the civic space, and the media space of our country. And also the flurry of arrest on freedom of expression. What have been your thoughts? I saw you issued a statement about this matter as well.

SPEAKER_27 34:04

I tell you that uh, first of all, I was surprised that uh a summit of such magnitude uh can be cancelled within a space of a week before the summit takes place. I have never heard of such a thing in the times that I spent uh in my foreign uh affairs dealings. Normally it takes a lot to prepare for a summit. Uh, it takes a lot to secure the presence of uh leaders because they have to block a lot of events for them to be available. That is why it is called a summit. A summit meaning it is heads of state that were going to be available. To have a situation where you cancel it as a country within a space of a week before the conference starts, is really something that I failed to comprehend. Because, as you know, Your Excellency, a summit like that which is involving high-ranking delegations, will attract officials coming into treatment, sometimes even a month before. You know that when we are going to the General Assembly, uh, which normally happens in September of every year, uh, we have officials from foreign affairs that spend three months uh before the actual assembly starts in September. They are there preparing documents and all kinds of things for the delegates to come and uh attend a successful summit. So to have a situation where a summit can be cancelled within, I mean a week before it commences, it doesn't paint a good picture for us as a country. It doesn't show organization for us as a country. Foreign affairs must be worried. The country must be worried that we can cancel such a summit where we're expecting over 2,000 delegates to be in Zambia. And you know what that does to Zambia? Because just a summit like that, the human rights uh conference, a summit, was going to attract uh a lot of businesses for our local people here. That is what summits do. It doesn't just end with the people that are attending the summit, it also has a lot of spillovers, and uh, these spillovers were beyond by our people who would have seen the economy boom, at least for the time that the meeting was going to take place. But alas, uh it was cancelled. And what is offensive about this is that the summit was cancelled when the government realized that the issues, the agenda that was going to be discussed in that summit was going to affect them, knowing that this government has not done well regarding matters of human rights. Just recently, you saw how a journalist was brutalized by suspected UPND carders. I took time uh with my colleagues to go and visit him. Up to now, as you and I are speaking, that journalist Alfonso Kasongo is still in hiding with his family, still in hiding in a place somewhere, and that is very regrettable. And we have not heard any statement from governments or indeed uh P.S. Tabu Kabana, who who seems to talk about everything except what concerns his job. On that particular incidence, he has elected silence, conveniently so, because he knows that human rights are being violated there. They also cancel that meeting or that conference, that summit, when they realize that they have passed dragon and repressive laws, such as the cyber uh uh law that they have passed in this country, whether what you say is gagged, whether what you say so they had no business in even hosting a summit like that in the first place. And so before they even aspired to host such a summit, I think they should have evaluated themselves, they should have looked at themselves, and uh they should have said this summit is not for us, this summit we are culprits, we have failed to leave human rights dictates, we have failed, we have brought in Zambia laws that are suppressing citizens, cyber uh laws where citizens now are afraid to speak. Ambassador in this country citizens now can no longer speak. People are quiet, even people you thought could speak, because before you could see non-governmental organizations speak, you could see church leaders speak, you could see politicians on every other platform speak. Today, the entire nation is almost quiet. Silent because they don't know what might follow them. There are very few who are speaking today because everybody is scared of they might follow me, they might open a charge again. Now, what type of a country are we uh trying to run? What type of a government is this that suppresses its own people that it is trying to govern? So, really, in the first place, this government had no business in even applying to host such a summit which was promoting human rights, a summit which was going to talk against the cyber laws. So, therefore, they didn't want to get embarrassed. And a week before the summit commences, they cancel it. Again, that is a dark period for our country. Zambia is proving very fast before the international community. Zambia is proving that we have a problem with leadership in this country, and it is sad because everybody is now seeing. You can imagine thinking of us. We are being discussed in various capitals. We are being uh degraded everywhere internationally, simply because the leadership that is currently running the affairs of our country does not know whether they are coming or they are going. Very sad time for our country.

SPEAKER_23 40:06

Thank you. Let's go to the main topic why I brought you to help me analyze this matter. In 2019, President Edgar Lungu at the time, you know, requested the American government to take the ambassador then, uh Daniel Foote, for his remarks to protect, I think, issues of LGBT in our country when they were outlawed. President Hakainde Hilema came very strongly and condemned President Hakainde President Lungu for doing that. Listening to the speech yesterday by the U.S. Ambassador, many years later, we learn that President Hakainde Echilema has been trying to have the U.S. Ambassador record. And what is his crime? His crime that he has exposed corruption. He has attacked corruption and he has spoken publicly about his corruption. And uh let me just quote what he said: attacking the messenger, who dares to name these dynamics out loudly, is not limited in targeting the U.S. ambassador and asking Washington for his removal, the hypocrisy by the president. But let's go to the speech. What was your impression when you heard that speech?

SPEAKER_27 41:31

Made me very sad. It felt like a funeral. Um I have never seen a diplomat get so emotional with the things that he was saying. And uh for starters, I want to put it on record that ambassador like that can never issue such a statement without it being cleared by his capital. Fair speeches, national day speeches, and uh speeches that are hinging on bilateral agreements of countries will never be issued by an ambassador without the clearance of capitals where they come from. So there should be no doubt in the mind everybody that listened to Ambassador Gonzalez speaking to us as a country yesterday, that his speech, even before he read it, he subjected it to the State Department back in Washington to see if it in tune with uh Washington's interests. If anybody would want to argue that no, that statement he was speaking from his own uh uh it was on staff, that speech was coming from Washington. Yes, I was taken aback to see how ambassador was at pains uh indeed to try and explain how things have degenerated in Zambia. And if there were people that were doubting that corruption is part of governance in this country, there was your answer last evening from the American ambassador. He was not speaking from speculation, he was speaking from a basis of facts, and that really took me down as a person. It really affected me deeply as well, knowing that uh the things we thought were obvious for our government weren't obvious. I was sad, and I'm still sad, to learn that our government deliberately has looked the other way when corruption is taking place. They have been playing, talking about corruption, and yet they have not put in any effort to fight the scage. That is sad for Zambia. And you know that statement has not just ended with Washington. That statement has been received by other corporating partners like the European Union, the British authorities, SADIC, the African Union. So that report has been piped in various capitals across the globe that this is where Zambia sits. And I know you mentioned this fact. The USA and Zambia have enjoyed long bilateral relations. From 1964, when we got our independence, America has had that bilateral relation with Zambia. And you are right when you say that America or the USA has been one of the biggest uh bilateral sponsors or bilateral contributors to our Zambian economy. No other country beats the kind of support that they give to Zambia. I think they give us about$530 to$700 million per year in supporting our various sectors in the economy. So clearly, as you put it in the beginning, Excellency, Ambassador Gonzalez was on firm ground when he raised those issues. Some issues I was amazed that they can even happen. How can you explain that an ambassador can take months without talking to a sitting head of state, especially an ambassador, that is giving you humongous amounts of monies like the ones I'm just telling you about? Such an ambassador can never be ignored. You ignore such a one at your own peril. And it has got consequences. If you do that, obviously the amount of support that you receive from the American government will be affected. Because what Ambassador Gonzalez was saying yesterday was simply, we are being irresponsible as a country. We have not lived up to the uh the image that they thought we were at. We talk a lot and we don't action the things that we should be actioning on our people. And you see, looking at his face, looking at how he was doing things last evening, I would have expected that the people that should have been coming out in that kind of gesture should have been our leaders. They should have been the one to show this that Zambia is really going through a lot of challenges. But I want to ignore it. Really, for me, Ambassador, sorry to say this, but I'll say it. You know why I resigned from government. One of the reasons I resigned from government was when I could not agree on how things were being done, I said I'm not going to continue on this trajectory. And when you see that corruption is happening, why don't you tackle it? Why doesn't the president show character by dealing with ministers that are involved in corruption? Why does he choose? It's not up to him. If I were the president, if I were the president and evidence is brought before me that this minister is corrupt, I would deal with that minister. I will fire that minister. The president doesn't have that uh boldness to fire the ministers uh that are involved in or being mentioned in these corrupt issues. And that is why we are where we are today. So he should even stop talking about corruption because he's got no business talking about corruption. That statement from the American ambassador should leave all of us worried that if a largest economic contributor to Zambia, in the form of the United States of America, can speak in that format, what more other countries like Gabon? Can the president even talk to countries coming from like Gabon? Anyone coming from Malawi, can an ambassador coming from Botswana even have the guts to see our president? So if the president is not seeing the American ambassador, who is he seeing? And I ask this question because I know that embassies or countries are graded. We know in what tier America is graded. We know in what tier Germany is graded. How come the president is having difficulties? The government is having difficulties because Ambassador Gonzalez's statement is saying that even ministers have shunned the American authorities. Yesterday, when he was giving that speech, I was scanning in that room to see if there were any ministers. Because normally what happens on a day like that, we should have had a Zambian government minister who should have also been bidding farewell to him. We didn't see any. And normally it should have been the foreign minister, especially for a country like the USA. There was nobody. Is Zambia suggesting that it is now straining relations with the USA? I think government must come out clearly to tell us why they are treating uh embassies or ambassadors from such capitals in such a fashion. Because from what I know, any ambassador in a country like ours is representing their head of state. And so when the head of state writes to you a note verbal, as we call it in foreign affairs, you as a country should take it as a priority. You must see that you meet that ambassador within a space of at least three days, four days, you must see them. And here, why is the ambassador wanting to see me? Because they didn't come here to only have coffee. They came here to ensure that their interests as well as our interests are enhanced. So, really, Ambassador Mwamba, I am I am uh sad uh really that uh Zambia can see such days in foreign affairs. I never thought again such things would ever happen. And I never thought a diplomat can say what he said yesterday with boldness, and he was saying it with a sad spirit. And I'm equally very sad, equally very sad that our people are not being represented right. Zambia is not being represented right. We are being mismanaged internationally, but this will be corrected in August this year.

SPEAKER_23 50:21

I think that's why he asked that I ask of those whose country it is, what will you do about this? What action will you take? Let's let's just delve a bit into some issues that the ambassador raised. First, he seemed to have been responding to the president because the president says you fight old, current, and new corruption. The president says there are no sacred cows in his fight against corruption. The ambassador had a paragraph for that. In fact, he even used one of the strongest terms that any diplomat can use. And um this is what he said that the rhetoric that there are no sacred cows is rubbish. When there aren't any cows except those who are deemed to be disloyal. So he said they are sacred cows. In fact, the only people that are punished are those that are disloyal. And he said, when he hears this term that there are no sacred cows, he called it rubbish, one of the strongest terms you can use even in public media. Another one, you know, he says Zambia doesn't need money, doesn't need money from us. In fact, what it needs are leaders of integrity and it needs a political will of a leadership that will put Zambia first. Then he went on to narrow down to the SEC, where they have appointed persons to head the SEC who are under investigations for corruption. And the first thing he says they do is to discontinue investigations against cabinet ministers. Oh my, that was an indictment. Honorable Kalawah, what are your thoughts about those two statements?

SPEAKER_27 52:19

You know, I'm gasping for breath here. Um as you've rightly put it, Ambassador. For a diplomat to use the word rubbish, just the word rubbish itself, being used by a diplomat, it tells you that things have really collapsed. Things have really collapsed. And that should tell us as a country, he was trying hard to find exact words that he could use to describe the situation here. And he was at pains, I could see how he was struggling. When you see his facial expression, his body language, the ambassador was at pains to try and explain how Zambia has degenerated. Surely, Ambassador, how can you have a situation where the Anti-Corruption Commission can have the audacity to even announce that ministers will not be investigated or will not announce, in fact, the president himself did that announcement. Ministers being investigated by the Anti-Corruption Commission should not be announced to the public. Kenneth Kaunda, Frederick Chulbalevi Mwanawasa, Rupi Abanda and others must be turning in their graves. To hear such a statement coming from a Republican president. Dr. Kaunda would fire a minister, not for corruption. He would fire a minister for just taking too much to the bottom. At one time I remember he fired one minister and he said, I pray to God Almighty that he will make you rise up again and take up your full responsibility before the nation. A minister was fired. Not because he he went and got money which was not his, not because he didn't do retirement of impress. A minister was fired because President Kawunda thought the amount of bottles he was consuming were a bit more. Now we have a situation here where the Anti-Corruption Commission is telling you and I that ministers should not be investigated for corruption. Let me become president in this country. We cannot allow such kind of jokes. We can't allow that. What is so special about being a public officer? In fact, to the contrary, when you are a public officer, your levels of being scrutinized even go higher than someone who is in private uh practice. Because you are thriving on public monies. You are using things in the name of the public. The person in the private sector are struggling to make ends meet. So why would the person who is indeed supposed to keep corruption be the one to sit on it? You know, Ambassador, as well as I do, that the late Roger Simwewa, Comrade uh Chito, were relieved of their duties by President Michael Sata. Not because they were guilty. As deputy ministers, not because they were guilty, but because the anti-corruption commission was doing some investigation on them. They could not stay in office because Mr. Sata thought they would uh preempt or they would figure around or tinker with information in their ministries. That is leadership. It is not leadership, it is never leadership to try and shield your colleagues because they are loyal to you. In fact, President Ichilema has gone very far in trying to suppress the fight against corruption. What he has done is that he is using the institutions of governance, especially the Anti-Corruption Commission, Drug Enforcement Commission, he's been using these institutions to try and show his colleagues that he's working with that he can use them against them or he might not use them against them as long as they play loyalty. And that is what the ambassador is talking to. Why is it that ministers who should have been investigated have never been investigated? Why? Why is it that ministers who should have been dropped were only transferred to another ministry and never punished? And why is it that standards are different? For others, it is another standard. For another one, it's another standard, depending on your relationship with the powers that be. You can't do like that. The Anti-Corruption Commission is a creation of parliament. That is a quasi-government institution. It's a watchdog institution. It is meant to put leaders like the president and his ministers in check so that they do not abuse, they do not go beyond the powers given to them. But here we are today. The SEC has become complicit. And as the ambassador says, on one hand, we are crying woof that there will be no sacred cows. On the other hand, you are busy saying don't investigate ministers. Now it has become like a privilege to dispense. If you are to be arrested or not to be arrested has become a privilege. It cannot be like that. We have reduced ourselves. Mwanawasa, wherever he is, must be worried. He must be turning in his grave. That the fight that he really pontificated, really brought before to extremes this country has never seen has been dwarfed. It is not right. I think when you look at the presidents that have run the affairs of this country, you realize that all of them, except our current president, have fought the fight against corruption in truth. They have tried. They were human, they could have done better, but at least they tried to ensure that the fight was genuine. So the Anti-Corruption Commission now has remained a toothless bulldog. It's a toothless institution, which is just meant to scare those of us who are not part of them, to scare candidates they might not be comfortable with, to scare whoever they think that is not towing the line of governance. That should not be the way. The SEC going after August elections, when power exchanges hands, will have to go back to its original act. Be a watchdog institution without fear for favor.

SPEAKER_23 58:58

In fact, the ambassador again is very clear. You know, multi million dollars were stolen, and he had been looking for uh action for three years. And I think in these two paragraphs yesterday, he's speaking to that because he called for investigations. So the president held a parade, called the ambassador, said he was commissioning um an you know a forensic audit against the Ministry of Health, and that report has never been seen. And like the ambassador said, no one has been prosecuted. But here are his words. He says the theater of commissioning a report to get a scandal out of the news cycle, but taking no substantive action on accountability is all too common in this administration. So every time there's an issue, there's high rhetoric, sometimes even audits are commissioned, but no one is punished, no one is arrested. Then he says empty promises must be replaced with tangible action. Commitment must be honored, laws must be implemented and must be enforced consistently and equally.

SPEAKER_27 1:01:14

Why? It's because they did not focus on the people that committed the offenses. The people that committed the offenses were shielded by the powers that be. They went to junior officers who did not have anything to do with what was happening. Innocent people today are even facing courts. From where I stand and from my investigations that I've done at least, I would say from the story I've heard, some people that I can think they're innocent are busy being dragged into matters. And yet those who should be paying the price are busy wearing UPND regalia and being praised. Now, this is being hypocritical. It's being hypocritical because can talk about money as being mismanaged. You saw what happened during the time of Manawasa, because this is not the first time such a thing is happening in this country, especially in the Ministry of Health. People were convicted. I think permanent secretaries went to court and they went to jail in the Ministry of Health when there were issues of money being misapplied and mismanaged. It is there in the history. Today, it's been all talk. The president went to Ministry of Health with a convoy because he likes convoys a lot. He went to Ministry of Health with a convoy. And what he went to do there is to again see to it that medicines have come and everything has happened. He was more interested in the cameras following him, not in him doing the actual job. Now, when you have people like that presiding over the affairs of a country, they'll be exposed by the diplomats. Because the locals in Zambia are failing to talk. Now, a diplomat has taken the role that we should have all been taking. We should have been talking about. He has taken that role. And I think on this one, Ambassador Gonzalez, you have done extremely well. You have gone even beyond the call of duty to do what you have done for our country. You love Zambia even more than those who are running over the affairs of this country. Because their behavior, which has been exposed, should never have allowed them to even be in public office. They have clearly showed us that their interests has got nothing to do with the people of Zambia. Their interest is their own aggrandizement, their own businesses, and so on and so forth. But this must come to an end. And you know, Ambassador, listening to Ambassador Gonzalez speak, he said everything a person can speak. He said it all. All that he was short of telling you and I is that those of you who are voting on the 13th of August, go and kick these people out. He was that short of telling you that. Now I can add that line. Go and kick him out in August. And that is all we should do. Because we have been told by the international community, that is America speaking, the international community has told us this man has not taken corruption seriously. Honestly, for me, that statement, Ambassador, sorry, I can tell you for uh for a fact. If I were the one, if I were the president of a country and a diplomat rubbishes the drama that I've been doing around the games I've been playing around, I would resign. And that is why I'm asking President Ichilema, be honorable, resign. If really you've got anything that uh any credibility around, I think you should just say uh with what has been exposed, I think I don't have the legitimacy to continue being in office. It's never too late. After all, uh the elections are in August. You can still say it's okay. I won't even contest it because Nasevan, I mean, I've been I've been embarrassed. This is a huge embarrassment to the country, which you have caused us to go through. It is sad because, as I said, these reports have been piped in the different capitals. People are not just talking about our president and the UPND government, they are talking about us as Zambians. They are talking about us as Zambians who don't take corruption seriously. Are we not ashamed, really? Can't we, for once, begin taking these actions seriously? Ministry of Health is a constitution. And the fact of the matter is, the American government pumps in a lot of money together with other cooperating partners. They pump in a lot of money in the Ministry of Health. Why is it that we are failing to account for those monies? Because we don't want to account, we have stopped picking their cooperation. And we think that is solving issues. That is just bringing problems for a country like ours. It is the vulnerable that are going to suffer in this country. Because once the expenditure, once the monies that are being given to Zambia go down, it means the amount of medicines we can buy also will be affected. And what does that do to the ordinary Zambians? They are the ones who are the end casualties. They're the ones who are the tail end, what the receiving end, who will feel the brunt of this action. Let us be responsible as leaders. We are doing this on behalf of the country. Let's be responsible.

SPEAKER_23 1:06:34

I think the government has tried to run and preempt the public with a narrative that there's an agreement that should have been signed by yesterday. And this narrative is that we give you money for medicines and medical health and you surrender your mineral rights. This is what the ambassador responded. He says any suggestion that the United States would withhold critical life-saving health care support from those Zambians whose lives and health depend on it unless we get critical minerals is disgusting and patently false. Again, he uses one of the strongest terms, disgusting and patently false. He says, why do we say this? He says, first, we are paying up to 23,000 COVID salaries, the health workers. And despite the issues surrounding the audit and the theft, they are still paying salaries for 23,000 health workers. And this is another statement he says. Although we have noted that since last February, not a notable single prosecution has taken place. This is arising from the audit that has exposed the theft of millions of dollars. He says, after last year's pause, we still resumed all our health assistance of over$400 million a year, including the$75 million we provide from medical medication. So he has dismissed the propaganda that has been run by this government, that they can't sign this agreement because it's time to critical mineral resources. And he has said, why have we continued to pay the 23,000 health workers? A matter they will not tell our people, because our people are told no, we've employed health workers. They will not tell you that the health workers and the teachers employed are under the payroll funded by either the Nordic, British, and the American government. But they will celebrate the number. And here the ambassador has exposed that. And again, he has exposed that despite the theft and we know the corruption, we've still released$400 million, and we've still released the$75 million for medication. Your comments, Mr. President.

SPEAKER_27 1:09:03

Well, uh, Your Excellency, I think uh Ambassador Gonzalez has said it all. He has exposed it all. Um, he has raised uh very pertinent issues uh concerning the same uh issue concerning the the health moo. When I heard about the health moo and uh the government uh not signing, and the impression that government was creating to the public, I made an appointment to meet the American ambassador. I think that was about uh six weeks ago. And uh the American ambassador was very gracious. He he did accord me that uh uh time to go and see him. I had a two-hour meeting with Ambassador Gonzalez and his staff at the American Embassy, and I asked questions as to why they should tie their support, especially in the health sector, to our rare earth minerals as we are calling them now. I also asked Ambassador Gonzalez, why in God's name would you allow people to die because you want to get some kind of uh wealth from uh from Zambia and that there is this issue that is going around that you also want to have access to the medical or to the medicals of private citizens. You want to know their status and all that kind of thing. And the ambassador was gracious enough, he took me through and explained that none of that was correct, and that the American government has been one of the largest supporters to our health sector, and that there was no way America would have stopped to support the health sector. And as you've rightly said, even this employment of new nurses that they are seeing about, employment of teachers that they are seeing about, the American government has been very key in providing critical support, financial support for the recruitment of all those uh people that they are recruiting. And yet, because, as you know, two years ago, uh our ambassador in Washington was directed to recall, to have Washington recall Ambassador Gonzalez. And so that battle has not finished because I'm told uh our leaders, once they have an issue with you, they will never drop it until they win. That is their behavior. We have seen it with the way we are handling the 60th Republican president. It's about winning. Everything's about winning. I think that's not correct. That's not the way it should be. So I discovered that there was a lot of misinformation going out deliberately to hood-wink the Zambian public, so that the public would think that the American government was trying to take advantage of our cobalt, of our lithium, those rare minerals, so that uh they uh uh they could harvest those for their own advantage. But that is not the case. They have continued providing that critical support, even in the absence of them harvesting that same uh critical support that the the government has been trying to misinform the Zambian people about. So it is not correct. It is bad diplomacy to pedo in windows against a bilateral partner. I think it's not correct. That is why it has been difficult for our leaders to meet uh Ambassador Gonzalez, because they know themselves that there are no answers to give him. So, what should they have done? They took local politics to diplomatic situations. You don't do that. Diplomatic etiquette does not entertain the local politics that you've been using on us, your friends in the political fraternity. I think it is important that we don't politicize matters that are affecting the Zambian people. We don't politicize uh issues that are affecting the health of our people. Zambia is blessed, Ambassador. We are surrounded by eight countries. Why Zambia in God's name has not even thought of making this the hub of health tourism, God knows better. And we had an opportunity where we'd have improved our health facilities here. Money is being given to us. And because we did not want uh certain conditions to prevail, or we did not want certain issues to be done correctly, what do we do? We begin undermining a process typical of the leaders that we have today. Undermining a process that ultimately affects your own citizens. It's a sad day, it's a sad season for our country. Very sad.

SPEAKER_23 1:13:50

Let me speak to the two last matters before I ask how the political issues are taking advantage of your presence on my show of how you are preparing. The ambassador raised two other matters, the four billion dollars that we keep on losing every year, you know, to these illegal remittances and you know, to these tax evasion tactics. Four billion dollars, and he challenged the Zambian government that if a if they plugged that uh theft of money of up to four billion dollars a year, uh Zambia might not even need aid. Then he talked about how the kafiewe pollution took place and he challenged government. He says there is a 500-page expert document. The report has detailed irreversible harm and risk of generations of birth defects, cancers, uh, heart and liver diseases that will be caused by these heavy metals that were leashed in Cafu River. And he says government seems in fact to promote the the offender who did this matter and protected them and made this report hidden while the large population will be subject to these health risks. So speak to the$4 billion illicit financing that leaves our country. And this 500-page report, I think the government has a duty to make that report public. Uh nala KtoVedivwe, Nishinyantire Pavewe. Similarly, the ambassador is telling you we have this report. Speak to those two issues.

SPEAKER_27 1:15:42

Ambassador, I will start with the issue of um the pollution that has happened uh on the copper belt. Uh, this has to do with uh uh I think cyanometals. I had I took time uh when it happened, I think it was last year in February, if my memory serves me right. I took time to visit uh the Chinese. Uh first of all, I saw the American ambassador quietly uh to get to the real stories as to why they had raised that issue very aggressively. And then he did brief me and their findings, and I asked if there was anything that I could rely on uh for me to have a comprehensive understanding of what was happening in regards to the pollution. Uh he did give me one or two documents, I think, which I went through. Upon reading those documents, I also made an appointment with the Chinese authorities. And uh the Chinese authorities also were so gracious, they also met me at their embassy and again took me through as well uh what had happened, the actions that had taken, uh both for the local, for the locals living around that area which has been uh uh uh described as being affected. They also told me what had happened even within the management of cyanometals. But there's been a back and forth, and clearly our government has not come out very clearly on this matter. They have not come out clearly. This is a matter of grave concern. It is a matter that required government to ensure that ZEMA, the ones who gave licenses to fame like Sinomato's, I think ZEMA should have also been held accountable. It is our intention as citizens first. When we form government, we would want to establish a commission of inquiry to really look at this matter so that we can get to the bottom of this matter, this issue. Because a lot of issues are not being looked at critically. We saw a peers who went to to drink water. Again, remember I was talking about our permanent secretary for information. He even went to Kitwe there to go and drink water from the river, saying, look, I can drink water from this river, it's not affecting anybody. And yet, we've been told it's through a process, it's through a period. But that, notwithstanding, we in the Citizens First have said this is a matter that should attract a commission of inquiry. It is a matter that should be taken seriously, especially that there are issues that are being described as uh very hazardous, that can affect the health of our citizens. It's a grave matter. It requires to be taken seriously. Serious issues must be taken seriously and not lightly. Uh, coming to the issue of uh the$4 billion leaving the country through illicit flaws, I think again it comes back to the same issue, Ambassador of uh the Anti-Corruption Commission, the drug enforcement commissions doing the job that the failing to do the job that they should be doing. Look, when you read the financial intelligence reports, it will tell you how much revenue government has been losing. It will tell you the culprits involved. Why is it that no action is being taken? This is the cry of Ambassador Gonzalez. The reports you read and you speak very loudly about those reports. Why are you failing to take action on being mentioned? How can a country like Zambia, that is literally struggling to be where it is, a country where you are owing over 200 billion quacha to local contractors, a country like this one where local contractors have not been paid, can afford the luxury of losing$4 billion annually through illicit financial flows and nobody is taking affirmative action. This is a scandal. And this is very sad for our country. Because when you look at the economy right now, there's a liquidity squeeze. When you look at the salary increments you are giving your civil servants, very minimal. And yet, when you go in our hospitals today, even where they used to provide meals for patients, it's no longer happening. In hospitals now, they have stopped cooking uh or preparing meals for patients. So, and yet you have the luxury to lose four billion dollars annually in ways that you can't explain, but money is leaving our economy. So that whole will have to be dealt with. And it only takes leadership to stop such kind of bleeding. Only leadership. But when you have a leadership that doesn't know whether it's coming or going, all they are interested in is to be re-elected and busy creating slogans that are not even important in this country. That's what happens. You have them campaigning from day one when they were elected, campaigning up to now, and the only ones campaigning, how can they supervise those issues of financial illicit flaws? They're not even interested. They don't even know how to close those gaps. This is the momentous task we have coming into government this year to stop such kind of bleeding. That is heavy bleeding. And remember, this is the same country that has gone to the multilateral partners. We have gone to the IMF, we have gone to the World Bank asking for$1.2 billion in terms of uh loans that we are getting, and those are monies which are being given in tranches. They give you$400 million after every three months,$400 million after every three months, and yet you have got four billion that is leaving you. You have got gold all over, you've got cobalt everywhere, you've got copper. You are failing to have all these things put properly together because you are you are neither here nor there. These are serious issues, and strictly coming into government ourselves, we would want to deal with issues of the drug enforcement commission. We would want the anti-corruption commission, we would want the police to begin doing their duty, to begin doing their job and do without interference. Why would you want the anti-corruption commission? Why would you want the drug enforcement commission to be under the office of the president, to be under state house? Those are quasi-government institutions. They are semi-autonomous. They should be let be watchdogs as they should be, as opposed to what we are seeing now. It is wrong. It is not right. We are allowing our country lose revenue, which revenue could have gone in the creation of industries, which revenue could have gone in doing much more for our country. But here we are. I heard Ambassador Gonzalez talking about contracts that are being given, money is being gotten from uh institutions like NAPSA, uh workers' compensation, uh money is for our people who are working and hoping that they are going to benefit from these monies. We are just mismanaging everything. The bleeding is heavy. We have to stop it.

SPEAKER_23 1:22:55

Which brings me to the question. And before I let you go, I'll be leaving you letting you go at 21.30, and we'll be leaving the two TV stations that have joined us, Prime TV and uh KBN, at that time. The country is broken. You know, no hope for our businessmen, for our farmers, for our workers, for the unemployed youths, for all sectors and all our people are in distress and have been looking to the opposition for a solution. The opposition, you're not giving us hope. Just from the records from ECZ, it looks like 29 presidential candidates have paid the nomination fee. And our people are saying, we know our country is broken, we know we have a corrupt leadership, we know that uh even Novolo Shvari Quartas things have emerged now. But who do we vote for? What are you doing about the issue of unity? Uh our people fear that they might the votes might be dissipated amongst you, the leading candidates, maybe you, maybe Makebizulu, Bran Mundu, you know, Fred Membe, KBF, and others. Please speak to this issue of unity in light of what has happened at ECZ.

SPEAKER_27 1:24:24

I'm just hearing now from you that uh there are 29 presidential candidates that have uh paid. I mean, I'm one of the 29. Uh you know, it is uh sad. It is sad. Um the people have spoken. And uh from the citizens' first perspective, we have tried to talk to everybody. And even now, even today, I was still talking to fellow opposition leaders. Uh let us see how we can merge. And I hope that something will uh will come out. Uh I think the cries of our people have become desperate. Uh our people would want us to sit and uh be reasonable with one another. Uh, as I said, or as I always say, in 1964, when we got our independence, Dr. Kaunda was not the most intelligent of them all. But the colleagues at the time allowed Dr. Kaunda to lead because they can only be one leader at a time. The same thing happened in 2020, in 1991.

unknown 1:25:31

Dr.

SPEAKER_27 1:25:32

Chiluva was not the best of them all. But when they sat and said, okay, there was Amphrame Lemba, there was Arthur Wiener, there were Shamwana, there were different leaders who were there in 1991. But they said we're going to allow Dr. Chiluva to lead us. And he did lead the process. We have got a lot to learn from history, and we have got a lot to be thankful for about how history has absorbed itself. We need to make every effort, we need to continue talking to one another. And I can tell you, Ambassador, I've not yet lost hope. Remember, the paying of the hundred thousand quacha is only a preliminary, it's an administrative guess that has been done. There are several processes that are going to come up. And we are hoping that by the time we are reaching uh the 18th of uh of May, uh, when the official timetable for presidential candidates starts, maybe the talks that we are having will have yielded into something where others, some of us, including myself, might say, I think we are not going to go ahead because we have reached a certain understanding with colleague or comrade B and C and D. I think for now we we should allow one person to go there. So, no, not everything is lost, Ambassador. We are still having talks. And I am not saying this because I'm before you. Uh, you know I'm a frank person. If there was nothing, I would tell you, nothing is happening. But I want to assure the public out there that we are doing our best. We are talking to one another, we are still talking. And now that the list is coming out and we are seeing who has paid, we are beginning to make calls. What is this? How can we how can we leverage on this? How can we come together and see how best we can uh amalgamate, how best can we close ranks so that we don't allow the UPND because right now they're having wine, they are celebrating, seeing 29 of us, I mean 28 plus the president 29. Now, seeing 28 of us applying to stand, they are having wine. They are saying yes, we have managed to have them split the votes, and of course, the vote can be split. But I'm also confident, Ambassador, that it is not every time that we should expect everybody to agree. Agreed to come together. I think 2011, when you remember the elections that we had in 2011, I think we had more than what about 11 presidential candidates, including the incumbent. The people of Zambia still said, out of these 11 contenders, we are only going to settle for one. And they settled for President Michael Sad. That is how he won the elections. In 2021, we were 16 of us who stood for an election. I was one of those who stood. President Akainde Ichilema was chosen out of the 16 of us, despite us not closing ranks, they chose him because the people said, who at this moment is able to talk on matters that are affecting us? Who at the moment can help us get out of the current we are in? And in their own wisdom, uh they chose Mr. Ichilema, who has lamentably failed as you and I know. So this time around, I am praying that we are going to do everything possible again as leaders. And I'm appealing to our leaders. Let's be open to one another. Let's try to reason. Let's try and reach an agreement as quickly as possible. I'm happy that we are talking to each other. The fact that uh I was meeting some this afternoon, and again we'll be meeting tomorrow with some people. For me, it is giving me hope that now we can go in each other's homes because the time requires such to visit each other and talk to one another and face facts as they face us. Because, truth be told, Mr. Akainda Ichilema winning this election by chance, by any chance, him winning. Even those of us who are not before the courts of law now facing charges, he will create them because he he has showed us he doesn't want opposition. He has showed us he wants to go unopposed, he has showed us that he wants what is happening in the UPND to be trans uh to be transplanted into Zambia. And so he wants it to be a thing where it is only him who shines, like he's doing right now. We can't campaign. The only campaign we can do is to come on EMV, go on uh KBN TV, go on Prime TV, that's all we can do. Beyond that, the police will clamp on you. And these are the very things Mr. Kainda Ichilema himself was against. And I always ask him this question, if the way you are treating us, if the way you are bringing bills, uh two weeks or two weeks before parliament dissolves, you want the electoral process bill to be completed. If that is the way the PF, who you defeated, who did things, Mr. President, would you honestly have made it to community house because you haven't gone to State House? Would you have made it to that community house? The answer is a no. You said you are going to create an enabling space. Why haven't you done that? Honestly, why haven't you done that? You keep talking your CDF, you keep talking your things. Please, if you think you are strong, if you have delivered as you keep on saying you have delivered, then why don't you allow us to also tell the Zambian people what we should tell them? Why should it only be you to be going on the copper belt? Tomorrow you are in the southern province, the other day you are in Kasama, the other day you are the only one. How do you want to be the best dancer when you're the only one dancing and don't want others to compete with you? It doesn't work that way. Please, Zambia is not a dictatorship, Zambia is not an autocratic nation. This is a democracy, this is what we chose for ourselves in 1991. And so, even as we talk, Ambassador Mwamba with our colleagues, this is what for us as CF, we keep telling them, colleagues, it is either we unite or we perish. And that is the status quo. If we allow Mr. Ichilema, Ambassador Gonzalez did mention in there, the attorney general has been quoted in saying they might begin looking at how they can fidget around with uh uh with the with the laws if Mr. Ichilema wins again. So, do we want to have a life president in Zambia? Zambia is not uh any other country. Zambia is Zambia. The spirit which governs Zambia is very different from the spirit which governs the DRSC Congo. This is a Christian nation declared by our founding fathers. And because Zambia is a Christian nation, we shall take it as such. We will pray, like we prayed the other day at Press Christian Center, that God Himself will come down and do the unimaginable. We are praying that we should also do our part as leaders before we even invoke God. Let's talk to each other, let's reason because this is the time for reasoning. I don't mind if you have not participated in any election or you have not been doing things, but let's reason. You have paid. It's your democratic right. You can do that. But at the end of the day, it is the Zambians that will be wallowing in poverty. It is our people that we need to look at. I think it is important. Let us draw lessons from what happened in 1996. Uh, when UNIP boycotted elections, and when UNIP boycotted elections, uh, we had a situation where the opposition again failed to come together. And what happened? They made a way for the MMD, then led by Dr. Chiluba, to continue governing. We shouldn't allow that mistake to recur. This time, me as Hari Calaba, together with the citizens first, that I'm privileged to lead at a defining moment such as this, are saying, We will engage you, we will talk to you, we'll call you. Today, uh State Council Kweva Scota called me back and says, Hey, I've found uh seven mysticals from you. What is happening? And I told him, State Council, we have to talk. We have to agree, we have to do this for the country now more than ever.

SPEAKER_23 1:34:16

Wonderful that you are engaged in that discussion. Let me just ask my last question before I release you. The country is going to national election in August. There are already fears that Zambia may not host or hold, you know, democratic, free, transparent, and uh good elections. They may not be credible, they may not be transparent. There are those fears. The state of ECZ also is a matter of worry. The new laws from Bill 7 to the electoral process bill that are being passed currently have all raised these concerns. And to you, the opposition, the work that lies ahead is so much. 12,200 polling stations. You have to over 1,875 wards in which to feature counselors. You have 226 constituencies for parliamentarians, you have 116 districts to feature either your counselors or mayors or council chairperson. The work is so much. Um we pray that you be ready, but we also, I think, recognize that we might need divine intervention in this matter. What are your last words?

SPEAKER_27 1:35:39

Say that uh we realize what is before us. The work is humongous. And looking at how things stand today, looking at how constituencies have been created, uh just in the very end of the uh this life of parliament, looking at the number of uh polling stations, 12,200 polling stations that we have, this should give us an idea, even as in the opposition, that the very fact that we are having such things being done, the very fact that Bill 7 was passed, the very fact that we have the electoral process bill, which will be enacted into law very soon, should tell us that there's something that is happening that is not in our advantage. We must put uh every effort in ensuring that we amalgamate our efforts. The citizens first will do its part. But you see, to sit here and say the citizens first is prepared to fill up all these constituencies alone, that is why we are reaching out to others. Because the strengths that my brother Brian might have, we might not have them. The strengths that Makebizulu might have, we might not have them as citizens first. Indeed, the strengths that my elder brother Fred Membe might have, we might not have them as citizens first. It becomes important. I don't have to like Brian, I don't have to like uh uh Fred, but because of what has befallen us, the need becomes urgent. Those polling stations you are mentioning, 226 constituencies, that's a lot. In 2021, when we participated in the elections, we're only going for 156, and that was a huge job as well. Now we have 70 more constituencies added. I don't see any single party within our opposition ranks that is going to manage and to field in every polling station, I mean in every constituency, especially with what is happening. Ambassador Mwamba, what has been happening in the past, and I know uh with other political parties, was that in areas where you might not be very strong or very present, you might not have a lot of people coming to a political party. So you wait for that but for that other party which is strong in that area to field, and when they field, they leave others, and then those that have not been adopted will always apply in other political parties. From what I'm hearing, I stand to be corrected, but from what I'm hearing, our colleagues in the UPND are getting uh copies of certified copies of Grey 12 and everything, and they're keeping all this they are doing because they don't want, they don't want those that they will leave to apply elsewhere because the original copies which are required by the Electoral Commission of Zambia will not be able to be uh to be available. And I'm telling those people, if indeed it is true, go and report that secretariat of yours of UPND to the police. Go and report them. It is not allowed, even within the Electoral Act. It is not allowed that people can keep your documents. It is not allowed. Why should you give them your documents and they keep them and they disadvantage you? If you are a man you want to marry, you can't go to that one, I'll marry you, that one I'll marry you, that one I'll marry you, and then you keep them like that, and then you marry this one so that those people are not married by other people. That is wrong. That is evil. So I think what is happening is not correct. Now, if we know that they are playing those kind of tactics, the need to even come together becomes even more desperate. Because we already know we want to lose an election, we're already seeing that if we don't stop that gap, if we don't stop that bleeding, we end up losing. Why would we want to go on pretending that no, it should be me, it should be me, it should be me. If the Zambian people will say it is not you to be me, I am prepared to allow anybody else to lead me, it's fine. I mean, God's time is the best. So I would rather somebody else lead than having Mr. Ichilema continue being in power. Because if he continues, even the little dignity we are having today as opposition leaders will evaporate because he will come for all of us. So it is important that we hold hands. It is important that we see these dangers and begin getting realistic and begin saying where we are, who among us as colleagues can take us to the next uh level. I think that's what I can say. Let's continue talking to one another, let's not fear knocking on each other's doors. We have to do it with sincerity because divided we fall, united we stand.

SPEAKER_23 1:40:39

Wonderful. We'll be letting KBN and Prime TV leave us. But for the entire audience who are watching us on YouTube on YouTube, on Facebook, on TikTok, on X, on Spotify, we are now opening the phone lines and you can ask any questions. Although we'll leave Honorable Harikal, our citizen first president. Uh we might call him on his line to come and answer any of your pertinent questions. So we will leave KBN and Prime TV, but to the rest of the audience on YouTube, on X, on Facebook, on Spotify, on TikTok, be here opening phone lines. And Mr. President, thank you. We'll be conducting this series because we think that this speech was momentous. When you have been saying there is corruption, people didn't believe it. But here is an accredited ambassador who sits at a podium where he has verified information, expose the corruption in President Akainde Hilema. I think we need as many opinions on this matter as possible. So thank you for availing us that opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:50

For decades, the US relationship with Zambia was one centered on aid. The United States has provided millions billions of dollars of assistance to Zambia, helping the country reach HIV epidemic control, contributing to a 20-year extension and increase in life expectancy, slashing malaria deaths, and truly impacting positively the lives of every Zambian alive today. Too often Zambian officials and leaders abdicated their responsibilities, letting the United States pay for health care, while officials diverted government funds to their own pockets across successive governments. Last year, I stood at a table and I shed tears before the world when I announced that the United States was cutting$50 million in health assistance. After years of pleading, I could no longer stand by while the Zambian government refused to stop or to take action to hold people accountable for the systematic and nationwide theft of U.S. provided medicines, while the Zambian citizens for whom they were intended went without one year later, not a single notable person has been arrested since February of last year. Not a single notable prosecution has even begun. After a year's pause, after last year's pause of our assistance, we resumed almost all of our health assistance. Over$400 million in assistance, including$75 million in medications alone. We continue to pay the salaries for over 23,000 Zambian healthcare workers as we have done for decades. That is the legacy of America's support to the Zambian people. Now, I know that there have been alarmist allegations recently, but let me be clear. Any suggestion that the United States would withhold critical life-saving health care support from those Zambians whose lives, whose health depend on it, unless we get critical minerals is disgusting. It is absolutely impatently false. In reality, since October, my government has offered over two billion dollars in additional grant assistance for health and economic growth to Zambia. But we can no longer accept empty promises. The future has to look different. Zambian government must thank you very much.

SPEAKER_23 1:44:58

Let's continue with the program. For those that are watching us, we're discussing three pertinent issues. We're discussing the ECO crisis. It still remains a matter of concern. Second item President Akainde Helema cancelled the world's largest summit on human rights, the rights conference. And the 2026 World Um Rights Conference was supposed to attract up to 2,000 delegates from across the world. Bookings were made, hotels were booked, kayak were made, and we lose all that money. But more at heart was issues that the conference discusses. It discusses human rights and digital rights. And Zambia is among the worst offenders. They probably thought they were hosting a digital conference. They had no idea that this was the largest human rights conference. And we are also now discussing the statement by the US ambassadors statement, Michael Gonzalez, who's outgoing, gave a momentous and historical speech, literally calling out and exposing the very corruption this government is involved in. Many of you are aware of the issues he released, but they were detailed and verified. And they expose the dysfunction, the corruption, and deep-seated fracture that is happening in President Hakainde HLMA. Where they corrupt are the word running SUC, where they are looting public pension, pension houses. The speech is historical. And I had citizen first president Harikalawa help me. Especially I picked him as first person to help with the interview on this matter, the analysis on this matter. Because in Zambia, as long as foreign affairs minister, and this hinged on diplomatic relations. And I wanted us to discuss from that perspective. Let's pick pick your lines and let's hear what your views are. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and give us your contribution.

SPEAKER_14 1:47:12

Hello.

SPEAKER_23 1:47:13

M K, we can hear you.

SPEAKER_14 1:47:15

Okay, thank you very much. I thought that maybe you didn't hear me. Well, Bamba, everything has been spoken, and we have heard uh even the what the ambassador has actually you know put through the election. We have heard everything, and we really thank him so much for you know for having disclosed everything that he had made everyone wonder, yes, and suspicious, but at least now he's in the public domain, and everyone now knows about that. Yes, and thank you very much for you. I mean the country is missing. Yeah, other than that, you're wondering uh I want to get back to uh the Bible. You know the Bible, you know, each and what I'm saying. I want to challenge the Jews. They are here in the reason why I want to challenge them some of us. We are the great and great grand children of some of the people who went to the Jews many, many years ago, and the stories were told to us. So she defale Sakunta number, shall I quata blessing. So Montero Sha Chakwebat. Ababa Tata Batusha. Tapwadiwa Chin Dike Badiba Tukile. Badiba wele elobale pelu. Tababa piti ya onashiputawai. Takua chit a blessing. Baya na makayago. E bya night. E byanai. So numba. Ifum sham Zambia. Shifu shaishi woke bat ubuloshi echoava eco wava stret a pandelanda no pushana for the land up. If a twapu ban too, abale bombaziba vein, abalei cut in foo, bale basemba mala, bale chita fiance, she defin to fiance for bale senda, balea numba, mukutuala, woody bariava le sapo, abale pokele la bali side forbal e chita, taba le chichita wankaba. So pali le lom, Iamashwe alay um kui, bute mash we are palele le mash we Iatun tulu, pamuamba, ayatun tulo. Eh, eight and de foculand, ech and foculanda we thank you. I have challenged all the chiefs in Zambia.

SPEAKER_23 1:51:39

Thank you very much. Thank you, thank you, Maya, and thank you for that enlightenment. Thank you.

unknown 1:51:44

Thank you.

SPEAKER_23 1:51:44

I've got two more callers waiting. Let me start with. Hello, caller. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from. Is that honorable mumbipiri? Mkwai. Mkwai honorable mumbipiri land any po over the subjects we are having.

SPEAKER_11 1:52:10

Because charim ponya pamusao that the things which are happening can happen in Zambia abantubale tamba. Bashumu Ambanga mwa di konka, there was a prophecy. I can't just remember what it shach and I sang and I pa Facebook open sangini. I'll send it to you. No, but in a fuma kubuk fumu, bossikuchi insadi, na kukasam, baba chiti mukulubari poniba shkulu. Ma mana no badime. Kumu shai just had my cousin who was a chief. Kumes kuchin sadi. Imba ming yan fumu na noba babonfia ilanda inediavu that they don't use more than baming. Bashimu ambamelebu kisha abobabe nye ba lumbulap. You remember, I don't know if you was two P.S. Kukasama dida twa idea balungu, kukasama, ero twaisaya, kufu mubashimbi, tapila. Twa sanga bekala mukayaanda, akanono ba lungu had to take it upon himself. Ukwambo kukurira, ba ienfumu, na nikane pala sianyu. And if you remember very well, takwa yama toine skuriakumushi, ine, and other people because I haven't gotten we were three women who strayed tuwa fuma payopovale kalabashmo bikapira. Tua ishira isanga kuku utu utumaya anda tuava ve nyye turiava panga. Tua ishwako kumushwa saranda ima fume koblea kuriva ve nyye na nobali neva ve nyo kobava. Uti analandile fiatike andofon de landila, chani ponya pamusao. Andiavantu, abashungulukaba kate ka ve suttava bate mwa. That's why kutiba panga mistaki. Yea kwatibalanda tvika momucherevalerandat sotsana. Ba chalu la bare mona kwa tina chwamba. Ba shimwwa mbande mi eva. I don't know. Ela noba, you ya eforma diplomati like me. Miya was shocked. Ukufwa, efoma ambasa dababa de abade landa. Defwa kumfia chibemba. Wakutina ba munina naba di kuchi salina kukasama, fu ikishe. Gonzala salandati. It's disgusting. Bamina nemueba di ukokumushi, chimono kulanda ti fiama kanka mike, uchiwe mbakumuesu. Hello, ifofweba Iapu m foreign service. It's aloaf umakonga bani chichichindika. Meanwhile, let us remember that United States of America is a superpower. If when forever a third world country, as if that's not enough, the third poorest, katushinga tataturi na palast. The last time I heard we were the third poorest nation. Fweva lepoca na chimba, kucha alo chachula, kuku chirana ifwe, babrundi ba tule American ambassador to speak the way he spoke. Kufea weopati ya kwe. Bashimuambata mwamwena ko from the ruling bagarin kumboko badi, badiaba kustani bikyoko badi, naba bank of Zambia govern, isina ba ikumbata. A to ishiri ndinifina kwambo ku talala. No ba lela anda sidia. Aleshiri pa social media kuno, umuntuwale mi diriako, to mwa yambo kumutuka. Sidiya mwa mfuire udianya sulu bata, sishina u waka ede. Up to today, nyasulu a di wa chita challenji ba government at take mi to cote. Nishiba siri wokumutuala kukoti. Nge shafi nasi alanda wa kalaba. Ine nabako kamfot. Bandume shesu majoritov you, ishi shibeba chalakateka nabonga badiya di pida. Alaikale ni pain shi tulangulukireko, abana abe shikulu, ne fi shikululo foto kasya. Icha lue chiakweva ttufike pa extent. Ya kutumbulo mun tu shite bululu wenu. U shaba balungu badini government property. Itin have a family. Ba mwamba imobulebuki shadidomuana wandi nebalandati. Bala shika kuka wambuwa ba mwana wa sabadina matui. My santaza was not government republic of Zambia. That was our child. And wobury him according to our tradition and culture. Yeah, she sayengapantu wa wushiva senga. Bamuanawasa decent. It's all the importance. The other children we are buried there is the only one we buried in Rusaka. Mweva and tu bale uko kukawe tutu angulube. Nale mantaya ba and veo d notati. Ugulubakweta barifuya. Awe, we went to go and veo. You remember how kapokora newa never shumwa boko mwadi.

SPEAKER_23 1:58:14

Mkwai.

SPEAKER_11 1:58:16

Pokulai kalamo. Gonzara sina tueva. Attu you mwe neba chalo. We neva ka chalo ka zambia de sa di kokupange fialo. Ha sa di rangine. Atimuira nji la balungu chadi poa. Bale trole shati mwidiri di mueve ne. Bana to thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_23 1:58:43

Let's let's let's take the call the cause uh on on. Let's take as many calls as possible. Uh we're hosting citizen First Harikalabah who was helping me with the analysis over the speech that has been made by um uh US President Gonzalez. Let me just take I've got two people waiting already. Hello, Cola. Let tell us your name and where you're calling us from. Hello, yes, Cola.

SPEAKER_28 1:59:12

Yes. Yes, uh Jason from German.

SPEAKER_23 1:59:16

Juston from German, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_28 1:59:20

Yes, sir. I just wanted to make a contribution uh uh from uh what has happened and uh what Mr. President Karaba was uh was saying. And I just got concerned so much about uh the the spew which happened to the uh in the Kafua River and this kind of poison which uh you know the government has kind of shaped under the shelf, you know. They don't want the public to know the the danger of uh that you know that toxic is still much more uh alive, that it is dangerous to the whole community. But this is what we the politician, you know, we we always talk about. Sometimes they say so much about themselves and the people that they are they want to retreat. And it's so unfortunately that uh this has continued to happen. And I hope that whichever president comes after August, I hope that the opposition wins comes together, unite, uh, but of course not uniting with all those people who are corrupt because you know one of the things that uh Mr. Lung lost because there are so much people who are not trusted, you know, and it led to what you know we all know where it already. But what my point here is let us choose people who have the heart of the people, not people who just want to save themselves. Or for the sake of unity, just pick anyone who has just other minds. The unity should be those people who are concerned for the Zambian people. I don't want to serve them uh diligently, not with corruption mind. So I thank you so much, Mr. Uh uh Immanuel, for doing this program. And I hope that all the opposition or uh participant presidential uh candidates will yield to the uh to the to save the Zambian people, not themselves.

SPEAKER_23 2:01:14

Thank you. Thank you very much. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and give us your contribution. Hello. This looks like uh Father Pombo. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:32

Yes, good evening, uh Honorable Emmanuel Mamba.

SPEAKER_23 2:01:35

Good evening, Father. How is Italy?

SPEAKER_06 2:01:39

Thank you so much. We are okay. The weather is changing. Instead of being a hot weather, we have some sort of a cold weather. But uh, we accept and we thank God for this.

SPEAKER_23 2:01:53

Thank you so much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:56

Well, Honorable Emanuel Mwamba and the Zambia people, thank you so much for a beautiful uh program that you have put forward. I would like to thank uh Harikalaba. Bam Mwamba just to disclose a light moment to Ali Dakasala Ali Kalaba.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:20

Well, you should go for Twala gives you.

SPEAKER_23 2:02:28

Speaking very well. Because the first time the first time you felt that he wasn't speaking unity, but uh I think you've been impressed the last two broadcasts, it's been very clear.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:50

Oh, I did a car.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:03

If we are fair to want to woman better pamo, beta pabina zambia. We are doing whatever you do, we do. Our contribution when we do our contribution, we don't hate anybody because I honorable one, but you know very well. Um I'm not ashamed of saying to the Zambian people, I campaigned for Haka in the GM. I campaigned for him, but I did not campaign for what is happening. That was 2021 when I remember uh value addition, jobs given to the Zambian people, taxation, good taxation, and all and uh and all those beautiful messages that were given in by then 2021.

SPEAKER_23 2:03:57

So father, make your contribution. I've got so many people waiting. Kindly make your contribution.

SPEAKER_06 2:04:03

So my contribution, my contribution is uh um Gonzalez said um the UPND government talks a lot and asks and acts less. Then I come back and I could honorable uh Hari Kalava. He was saying we are talking and discussing we have discussions with other presidential candidates. Um because he understands that coming together is going to help to solve this situation, especially coming these elections. So now my question has been I don't know whether question. My question is this they talk too much, they uh collect less. What is the difference between between that you are I respect you very much, my dear brother? You remember, you know, you know me this, but um the question is this you say you are discussing with opposition leaders, and you have listened to the cry of the Zambian people that they're asking you to come together. So, can there where is the difference? Can there be a difference between what console noted about the UPND? They talk too much when they talk, what they realize is the opposite from what they talk. Number Hari Kanaba, this is my question. Can there be a difference when you yourself you say you are discussing a lot with opposition leaders? Can you assure the Zambian people that the result is going to be different from the result of what is happening with President Hagades?

SPEAKER_23 2:06:37

Wonderful, wonderful. Thank you. Alo Cola, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:42

Thank you, uh Ambassador Uncle Jay Collin.

SPEAKER_23 2:06:45

Uncle Jay, make your contribution.

unknown 2:06:48

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:49

Uh, having listened and led the speech by Ambassador Gonzalez, really, um, you know, my my heart actually sings. Um I'm also appalled, I must mention, by the level of uh stupidity and the insults that are being showered to the ambassador, uh the outgoing ambassador to America, uh, depressing us. You know, this thing where UPND doesn't distinguish, you know, that, you know, their levels in life. The way they've been behaving against us, Zambians and the opposition, is totally different from the way they are supposed to behave towards our cooperating partners, in this case, the foreign entities. But they for them, they've just crossed the line in every sphere of our lives, and that is so dangerous. Uh, lastly, I don't want to take much of the time. I want to applaud um, you know, um the president Kalawa for what he was saying. Uh, he's speaking unity. I'm one person that never believed that he would work with others. But to see him really sober up and just want to advance this unity to everyone, it's one of the things that should be welcomed and be encouraged by everyone. This is what we need. But of course, we are not oblivious to the fact that they may not be, not everyone else would want to, you know, as it is shown this far. But those that would be willing, without God, we are going to work with them. I think there is hope for Zambia, uh, Ambassador. And uh, I want to say this lastly, um, Ichintu Chola. Ichintu Chola, Maketi Zuruko Presidents. Thank you.

SPEAKER_23 2:08:40

Thank you very much. We have got a lot of people waiting. Please just be patient. Uh, get to your line. I've got this other caller. Allo, cola. Look allocola.

SPEAKER_26 2:08:51

Good evening. Good evening, ambassadors.

SPEAKER_23 2:08:54

Good evening, who's calling?

SPEAKER_26 2:08:57

Uh, this is Dr. K calling you from Lusaka.

SPEAKER_23 2:09:00

Dr. K, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_26 2:09:04

Yeah, thank you, Ambassador. Um, yeah, just three things. One, uh, just to pay tribute to the outgoing ambassador, Gonzalez. I think this is one of the uh remarkable ambassadors that we have had. A man that was so compassionate to the Zambian people, especially the ordinary people, and for his concerns and his support to this country. We really want to thank him and even for standing up for us and for helping us to know certain things that we are hidden. We want to pay tribute to him. He was such a good ambassador. Secondly, ambassador is the unity that um Honorable Harikaraba is talking about. Um, I think many have said that we want to see actions rather than just talking. And also uh I want to encourage you to work with Market De Zulu, to work with um other opposition political, I mean other political parties like opposition leaders that are key figures, um, especially those that will matter to this particular election. And you should not spend time talking to people that are just bringing division, people that are just bringing this country down, people that we know are Julius as Judas Iscariot. We do not want him to spend a lot of time with such rather than uh him bringing those key leaders like you know um uh uh Honorable Munduvine, you know, Makebiz, and all those key figures that we know. Yeah, then thirdly, Ambassador, it's just an appeal that um uh please also bring um to us leaders from you know Mackey's camp. I think we have quite a number of leaders to just explain some of the issues that we'd want them to talk about. Thank you so much, Ambassador.

SPEAKER_23 2:10:59

Thank you very much. Alo Cola, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_29 2:11:16

Let me know. Uh President Jai Karavan, if you randomity, we know about the unity unity, unit of variable canaver unity. Unity wives, we assume we might unity. Position once a mana the party unity. But unity Maria Bamatum Gani Gary Canava, Mary Randapari Unity, Mary Position, you video. Sometimes we have one under joke, and I know in the quick. That's why they run too many nomination if he manages.

SPEAKER_23 2:14:12

Thank you, thank you. Hello, caller. Please tell us your name and where you are calling us from.

SPEAKER_07 2:14:18

Good evening, your excellency.

SPEAKER_23 2:14:19

Good evening.

SPEAKER_07 2:14:21

My name is Hendrix, Your Excellency, calling from Lusaka.

SPEAKER_23 2:14:24

Hendrix, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_07 2:14:27

Thank you so much, Your Excellency. Your Excellency, the statement that the ambassador America is a very, very, very touching statement, Your Excellency. Corruption is a cancer. And as a country, we should not allow corruption. And those who are corrupt must pack and go. Then your excellency, you need Yamari Dazi Soma Presidential President. Your Excellency, 100,000 is a big amount. But your excellency, if you need we are talking about, I doubt if it may happen. Because leader after me a hundred thousand, a hundred thousand, your excellency, it's a big amount. A hundred thousand non-refundable. It is a big amount, and we acted out. But my message is please memory does this. President Ari Karawa has also talked about unit. But the big picture, okochila umfwasana, president mundovi. Your excellency, that president Vari Karawa. We are expecting that maybe Kwanaf Mago statement Yakova Tindi kutiwa umberapamo. So, your excellency, my request is please bring President Blan Mundovide here on this platform. Let him come and give us his position. Does he want to work with his friends? Because I think unit if he wants to be president, everyone is going to support him. Just like President Harikarawa said, President no. So, excellence, please. My request is do whatever is in your power and ensure that you bring President Blanimundu here. Let him come and state his position.

SPEAKER_23 2:17:30

Thank you very much. Thank you, excellence. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and give us your contribution.

SPEAKER_12 2:17:37

Hello, Honorable Mwamba.

SPEAKER_23 2:17:40

Good evening. Make your contribution, my sister from Germany.

unknown 2:17:46

Yes. Uh, first of all, I would like to appreciate what you are doing. You're doing a great job.

SPEAKER_23 2:17:52

Thank you.

unknown 2:17:53

I would like to talk about the ECL thing.

SPEAKER_12 2:17:57

Um actually, it really uh pains a lot of hearts. It felt like that's when it uh the president, Mr. President just died. And my contribution to Konare Buhari Kalaba is to show us which the unit is always talking about, how to unite the opposition. We would really like to see it that rather than saying it on uh Facebook or on media to say that no, we are uniting, we are uniting. If people are uniting, why paying hundred thousand? Every opposition is paying hundred thousand for what? That's a lot of money which can help uh in um campaigning if they can just choose one leader. It seems like it's not helping for us Zambians. We are really suffering. People are suffering in Zambia, and we feel like this opposition are very selfish people. They are putting themselves at first and not looking about the Zambian people, the poor Zambian people who are crying every day. I wish this opposition can just go in rural areas or in villages to see how people are crying. But they are in the forefront to to busy talking on your program or on social media. No, we are talking, we are talking, but we can't see it. They need to show us the people that these people are working together. Not just talking, talking, talking throughout. I've heard uh President Pari Karaba talking about this, but we haven't seen the people say actions talks better than words. Let this opposition show us that we are working together because otherwise, it's not going anywhere. If HH wins 2026, we would even applaud HH to arrest all these oppositions because they're not helping us Zambians.

SPEAKER_23 2:20:01

Thank you, my dear sister. Thank you.

SPEAKER_12 2:20:02

We can't even go to Zambia because of these things which are happening in HH. When you post something, the people are looking for us, they are looking for our names. Now we are scared to visit our own country.

SPEAKER_23 2:20:16

Yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you, my dear sister.

unknown 2:20:23

Good night.

SPEAKER_23 2:20:38

Didi make your contribution. Didi make your contribution.

SPEAKER_13 2:23:07

So by the time, by the mona, but stick some opposite of a loading in Angovalo shall never send it into a chip on me up, Bangamuella, and quite chicken could take.

SPEAKER_23 2:23:32

Thank you, Didi, thank you. Thank you, thank you, Didi. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Didi. Hello, colour, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contributions.

SPEAKER_24 2:23:43

Uh yes, uh Bamwamba. Uh I'll remain anonymous.

SPEAKER_23 2:23:48

Anonymous from Canada. From Canada, make your contribution quickly.

SPEAKER_24 2:23:52

Um Bamwamba in the Fokulanda Paddy Yashiria opposition.

SPEAKER_25 2:24:00

Uh if it is opposition narrow, but if you want to Bamwamba at this particular time, opposition of Tana, no Kuambera Japan. So Ngachakwata opposition Tabekate, no Kubombera Chapamu, I can safely tell you it would be very difficult for you PD to leave power. So what I'm trying to say is let the opposition, but in as much as you want to rule, but you have to look at the bigger picture, is it just about myself or it's about the interest of Zambians? When they need to collaborate and work together, not the Rovalande, my Ruvalande, it will be very difficult to mwamba. When you look at different sensi are opposition, they wrote to you are yuku, money paperfu, I want to buy kathing, I want to buy five, number, kateka, kateka kubafi ungafi, umofi. And this is why now our government is taking advantage. Mulando the opposition are divided, and they are now putting that narrative to say there's no opposition. There's no opposition. Manduoka now, kovati. So they won't try by all means to bring in that division, that confusion, so that you can be divided more. So I call upon all well-meaning opposition to say, ah, mwewantu. In okay, I'm very much ready. Ukubati, umunandi, at the very cerebell. If HH managed managed to kuku kuku, member of parliament, but it comes by opposition. But my royal walk away neo de calio. My royal walk, how neo the konineo. That I can safely tell you, by UPND, Bakawina my direction opposition ta womere chapam. So tre rando kwebu kuba timba opposition, ikataneni. No kwata very strong manifesto, yeah. Convince Avena Zambia won't see. That's what and the kova timo opposition item quite the manifesto Iak to be nava mona. O you alandesh, ba mundiri valandes, ba Kalava Valandesh, Banani Valandef. So you people won't be chapamo for the sake of Avena Zambia. No wata manifesto, Iala Lango Kubat won't have Zambia Tashani. Waunfukubata want for the Landava on to our fear banga sense.

SPEAKER_23 2:27:06

Thank you, thank you very much, my brother. Thank you.

SPEAKER_25 2:27:08

Now to Travamo.

SPEAKER_23 2:27:09

Hello, Kola. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from.

SPEAKER_09 2:27:14

Umonymously.

SPEAKER_23 2:27:16

Anonymous, make your contributions.

SPEAKER_09 2:27:18

Yeah, uh actually, I want to discuss the issue that Kalaba brought up. Kalaba helped us a lot to understand. Honorable Harikarawa, sorry.

SPEAKER_23 2:27:30

Thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_09 2:27:31

Um brought uh uh brought a lot of issues that um uh really comforted me when he said we are talking, and I know people are not satisfied by just talking, they want some people to fall off, but knowing, maybe, maybe we should not uh conclude uh that they've already done what they are going to do. Uh in offer and the subamwamba U PND fall off, we should have nowhere to go at that point. But then filing as they've done, then Vasasta fall off last minute to Aquala Mokvota, Muntuyu. Number one together mundu will mundu with some to locus, thousand. So my analysis is that this idea can work for the better or for good to the opposition in the near future. Because we know how the UPND is playing this game, we know how HH does not want any opposition during the elections. So let them be like they are, let them continue talking, and we don't know what they're talking about. So we shouldn't assume that they are all going to participate.

SPEAKER_23 2:29:20

Thank you. Thank you, Doc. Thank you very much, Anonymous. Hello, Cola, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and give us your contribution.

SPEAKER_02 2:29:34

Good evening, Ambassador. This is Alfred calling from Lusaka.

SPEAKER_23 2:29:38

Alfred, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_02 2:29:42

I haven't been calling on your program recently for the past I think one week or so. I was traumatized for the truth. And what this government has done to the ECL issue is nothing but total witchcraft we can beat about the push about that issue. Then coming to Gonzalez, you know he he it is a very long detailed speech. I I mean speech, and he has disclosed a number of issues happening under this government. One he has exposed the incompetence of the UPND government under the leadership of Ms. Again Chirema. There is a fair way of attending to issues which doesn't interest them, which is so sad, so sad, and I'm I'm wondering why the the the opposition they are not you know amplifying on this issue on the issues which are as you know has outlined. So before I lost my thought, on uh I've seen a number of uh you know opposition leaders falling in their I mean paying their nomination fees. I think let them pay, a number of them let them pay, because we don't know who is going to go through. And after some of them go through, that's when we can talk about unity and see who we are going to run behind owing to the political environment we are we are in. So let the let a number of them pay so that he we know is going to go through. Because this government, you know, it doesn't care. I'm I'm even so scared to say even the American government has been treated in this manner, you know, it's so shocking. Ignoring the ambassador of the USA to engage him, he has born the number of you know this government. No, it needs to go, please.

SPEAKER_23 2:31:33

Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_10 2:31:43

Thank you, Ambassador Mamba. Uh, this is from Livingston.

SPEAKER_23 2:31:48

Make your contribution.

SPEAKER_10 2:31:51

Thank you so much. Uh also my greetings goes to Honor Bohadi Karava. Uh uh I think he has given out a very good outline uh on how uh he also is pushing to see to it that there's uh unit in the opposition. Uh now I've got uh I've got a bit of concerns uh uh uh mwamba uh to do with um uh opposition unit. I mean I feel that uh opposition unity is now or never. Because one uh we cannot wait for uh uh for that period when we must check who has been imprisoned and who hasn't. I think uh there are there are more issues to unity than just seeing a presidential candidate on the barrel. One is the issue of um uh uh nominations uh uh Ambassador Mwamba, if we go on like this without opposition unity, uh we are going to discover that we are not going to have candidates in most areas, parts of the country from the opposition party. Talk of counselors, the MPs, mayors, I think there uh we are going to have a problem if we don't unite on time. Look what these guys are doing by UPND. I think all of us we have seen how they have been floating their aspiring candidates submitting applications to uh the Mazoka uh house in Osaka. But where are the opposition uh the leaders uh uh uh aspiring on MP councillor and mayor, where are they submitting the application letters? So um it it's better that you we unite now so that we we need to know to say, okay, if it too if it to if it to three Obama political parties you This constituency get that constituency, get that word, get that word so that at least during the nomination term we have ECZ. If we are really serious about winning elections, we must have fielded candidates in all the parts of the country. That's the unity that we need now. Because if we we say that my president will stay united by Murray, I'm a president, maybe Nishta Kurinishta. But what about I'm a food soldiers, I'm a counselors, I'm a mayors uh if we don't feel it, and then the other thing about Mwamba is that for Grananda Paddy uh Makebizulu. Uh you know uh Bamakebizulu, I think even the way about winning in the uh presidency and PF. I think for me it has it is more to do uh uh with uh spiritual or nothing else. I have my elections 2026. My elections I am in the pa padilesa and so refork defia kwa lesa pua if they really want to get help from God. Now I'm saying Omakebizulu uh uh PF president, okay? Now, others uh uh uh sumina, the woman president. I think this is why we have seen that other other members have even come out like the BBF. Now, Makebizuru Nashta demonstrate loyalty not only uh uh uh to this country, but loyalty also to Dr. Eddika Chagwarungo's Dr. Edga Chagwarungo's family now to demonstrate loyalty, that demonstrate maturity. You see how it has traveled the Abapeni Pakati just to make sure that the body to Dr. Edika Chagwarungo itself. Now, at Watamari does within the PF, within the party, okay, parium for news goati, ukubaru lung. And most of the people that we thought to represent us, uh, apart from Magebi, representua. So it is the kind of relationship if you land up, if you landwa those people that surrounded Edgarungu, Kwariko Wafia, most of them they were not honest with him.

SPEAKER_23 2:36:54

So for me, thank you, Bambuwa. Thank you. There are so many people waiting, and I want to call Honorable to come and uh give his closing remarks. Um, just allocola please tell us your name and where you're calling us from.

SPEAKER_18 2:37:11

Yes, Ambassador. Yes, good evening. Hello, Ambassador. Hello, Ambassador.

SPEAKER_23 2:37:34

Hello, make your contribution, please.

SPEAKER_18 2:37:37

Oh, thank you. I was not hearing you. Uh I'll speak to only two things. One ambassador is unity. Everybody has talked about unity. We need unit of purpose. What is our purpose? What are we trying to do? That is what we should focus on. Now, uh, Ambassador Gonzalez has also opened our eyes. We our leaders have been talking about one minute one million metric tons of copper. For who? Those are the things we should take in into consideration and unite. The unity of purpose is quite important because what we are fighting is for one. Never mind what we want to get rid of is the is the is one person. And that's the way we should move, that's the way we should go forward. Now, look at the PF itself. We have all these bakalabanif. And the mingal ishbe mingalato, we split the votes, and we can't see it, our leaders cannot see it. Can we please wake up and see this? And we get to to a common goal. What is our goal? Are we going to be are we going to live the way we are living? You one cannot even talk. One when to when you want to talk, you whisper.

SPEAKER_23 2:39:29

Thank you very much. I'll be taking the last call so that I can call Honorable Karawa to come and make his uh last remark.

SPEAKER_09 2:39:51

Oh me, again, sorry, uh Ramamba. Uh you know, you know the situation that I've been here for over 30 years. We don't use honorable, so I'm so sorry to honorable calawa for not addressing him as honorable. Okay, thank you.

SPEAKER_23 2:40:07

Thank you.

SPEAKER_09 2:40:08

As you know me, I'm a professor, but I don't I don't even allow my students to be calling me professor, they just call me by my name. People, some students just call me Dr. K. It ends there. So sorry to Honorable Kalawa for having uh called you Hari Karawa.

SPEAKER_23 2:40:24

That's honorable of you. Thank you very much. I'm grateful. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Now we got if a decorum program, and I want my guests respected. So just the decorum that I promote. Thank you, thank you, Dr. K. Alo Kora, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_13 2:40:45

Am I true to EMV?

SPEAKER_23 2:40:47

Yes, you are. Please make your contributions.

SPEAKER_08 2:40:49

Okay, this is the Rafael Chanda calling from Livingstone.

SPEAKER_23 2:40:54

Rafael Chanda, make your contributions.

SPEAKER_08 2:41:57

Meaning it's an indirect way of trying to cohere somebody, by all means, you need to support me. The second thing for sana kuleta wa makebi ba by MV. Preva forzi trefa twist before to a laboum because uh no the twishwama structure mundubi zuru. So trefabai sa, if a favourite be shokubason to look at double potion. Are monikela. So I can have a carabon bench to come in hand, the refer to my pretendance, pretenders made. Uku remonic chairman, no kure monikano chairman. So Maretoma ke bisulapa, so that's to Ambemo. My first time Nazandogati, Southern Province. Every cocoum provincial chairman, such as a good brand chairman.

SPEAKER_23 2:43:21

Thank you, thank you, my brother. Thank you. Hello, caller. Please tell us your name and where you are calling us from. You are my last caller for now. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:43:30

Hello, Bamba.

SPEAKER_23 2:43:34

Francis, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_05 2:43:36

Yes, I wanna rebuke. Today, you uh mundu vide, but you parade bachiranda. No, I'm talking to a calava. I'm talking to uh kebi, I'm talking to those political parties. So that is a bam. And secondly, I'm ready, I'm ready to be late. Uh it I don't have to love makebi, I don't have to like your fed name, but the issue is to ufun po you umbeleja bamba. Thank you.

SPEAKER_23 2:44:18

Thank you very much. The cause are so many, but unfortunately, we have to close. We just did a special broadcast, you know, to react to um Michael Gonzalez's speech and the banning issues. And I was hosting Honorable Hari Kalawa. Told you as my guest, uh as my you know, my audience that I'll bring in Honorable Hari Kalawa to come and give his last remarks. Honorable Hari Karawa, I uh uh you must have been listening to all the concerns and questions. Please pick up the button and answer and make your closing remarks.

SPEAKER_27 2:44:53

Uh, thank you very much, uh, your excellency, for the opportunity again. And uh I am uh really also thrilled by the volumes of people that have uh thronged the station today and just the the many calls that they have made uh to uh to to encourage us leaders to to work together. I would also want to thank Dr. K for being very honorable. He felt uh that uh he didn't respect me. Dr. K, if for me I'm good, it's okay even if you call me Harikalava. That is the name I was given. But uh, you are a great man. Uh thank you. I would try and look for your number so that I can get in touch with you after this program. I hope Ambassador will be gracious enough to lend me your number so I can get in touch. Uh thank you very much. Uh, Ambassador, I want to tell our um uh viewers and listeners that uh whatever I was saying on that platform was not for academic purposes. I am not very strong on doing things academically. Uh, when it came to a time when I felt I could not continue in government, I had the courage to step away. Remember, it takes courage to stay, just as it takes courage to leave. And I left. I have got no business uh going on a platform as uh illustrious as yours. I just talk things for the sake of talking. That is not my business. And if that's the way we'll be talking, then we'll perish. And that is why I want to encourage all of us who will be talking on this platform to walk the talk. And when I say, Ambassador, that I spent a great deal of time today uh talking to other leaders, it's not that I didn't do it. I did it. And that is why I am making every effort. And even when I say I am prepared to be late, it is just that. Uh I know there were callers who are saying, uh, but we want to see pictures, we want to see them, we want to see actions. You know, even you, our supporters, sometimes I would say learn to also be patient and uh also to be good to each other. Because Harikalava has got people that are supporting him. Uh Makebizudo has got people that are supporting him. Uh Fred Membe, Brian, they have all good people who are supporting them. And sometimes when we come out so strongly against the leader being supported by another leader, obviously the supporters will not feel right. And they'll feel being belittled, or they'll feel that the others want to have a lion's share. So, in all this, you the supporters and we the leaders have all an inescapable duty to agree that this time we should all learn to let go. What are you telling us, your leaders, when we are alone by ourselves? What are you telling us? Are you telling Harikalala, like my leaders today? I was even telling them, why would you just want me to be the one? Because even that other person who wants to be president, there are people who are supporting that other person. At the end of the day, in fact, Mr.

SPEAKER_23 2:48:20

President, just to add there, uh, you know, your dear brother Fred Membe issued a statement, uh, you know, bemoaning the way your supporters, your presidential candidates, are disparaging others and even accuse the supporters of keeping you leaders away because it's like they are holding you hostage. So I'm just agreeing with you that the responsibility is just on not to the leaders, but also to the followers to exercise that responsibility.

SPEAKER_27 2:48:48

Exactly, Your Excellence. Thank you for addressing that point. Because sometimes you leave it to the leaders, they're not agreeing, but we keep on insisting on our own positions. And you are saying show us the photos, show us the pictures. It is not everything, like right now, where we have reached, these are sensitive times. It is not everything we are going to play to the gallery. I know that Ambassador Mwamba knows that there's a lot happening behind the scenes. But if we start diverging everything that we are doing, we come and tell you on TV here that we are doing this, we made this, what we can reach there. The UPND will be celebrating, they'll open a bottle of champagne and they'll start drinking, knowing that we are planning right in their faces. The reason why alliances have failed has been because we have been doing these alliances openly. We are at a critical time, our leaders. We are at a critical time, our supporters. We need to be very, very serious with the way we proceed with this matter. Last but not the least, Ambassador Mwamba, I want to say this. Even as all of us are saying we are in opposition, it is not everyone that has paid that hundred thousand that means well for the opposition. Some have paid to weaken the opposition. Some have paid to see what they can get out of this as a bait, something they can use to propel themselves. So that's why I'm saying that we have to be careful. Even when we are saying unite, there's no way all of you can pay like this. Politics is a different industry. And what is happening right now in our country is very strange. So let us wait for this process and let's see how far it goes. I agree with one brother who said sometimes we should even wait to see who's going to be on the ballot. Because even being on the ballot is not as easy as it was in 2021. Ambassador, there is a provision there in the electoral calendar. After we file our nominations, there is a one-week period where those who want to challenge our nominations have been given leeway to go and challenge. And when you look at the electoral process bill, it is giving the Electoral Commission of Zambia powers to reject your nomination or accept your nomination. And you there's nowhere you're going to go. Because before, they will tell you right there and then when you file in that you have succeeded. But now you have to wait for another seven days for you to be told whether you have succeeded or not. So that's why if you say you are many, yes, we are many. Yes, we should reduce the numbers. But again, we have to be careful how we proceed. Because not everybody that has paid is in opposition. Not everybody that has paid those hundred thousand quarters means well for the opposition to unite. Some are there to frustrate the process. I am also shocked that some have paid. But they have paid. They are Zambians, they are entitled. So let us be careful with the way we proceed. But from our end as citizens, first, I want to assure our people out there that don't worry, we are doing our part. We are delivering to ensure that we unite as opposition. It is in our own interests. Because if we don't do it, like I said earlier, Ambassador, we'll be punished by circumstances. Today, Ambassador is not in Zambia, he's in the States. Tomorrow, Ambassador, you will have a lot of disciples joining you where you are. If we don't do things right here, and that is if others will be lucky. If we'll not be lucky, we'll end up just like our friends, Nixon Chilangwa, Chito Tela, and many others in uh Lusambo, who today, Malanja and others, are languishing in jail for issues that should not even have uh happened. So even as we do this exercise, I want to say this. Let us be genuine, let us be sincere, and we the supporters must also be ready to allow to be laid by anybody else other than the person we keep on praising or talking about. Because by insisting on that, we are heading for failure. Let us be magnanimous. Thank you, Excellence, for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_23 2:53:25

Thank you, and thank you for featuring on the program. I'm grateful. Thank you very much for that. Uh, that was Honorable Harikalawa closing the program. The calls are still many, but we want to acquire Fidandanda uh um the host needs some rest so that you can have another program properly. So we are closing the program and uh people are still calling. Thank you very much. And uh thank you for enjoying the program today. We're discussing the momentous speech by outgoing uh uh uh ambassador to US Michael or to Zambia, Michael Gonzalez. Uh, lined up a few guests to speak to the difficult issues that he raised against the government of President Hakainde Ichima. The speech was historical, it was exposing. That's why the the press singers are so annoyed and they are insulting the ambassador. The man who brings your ARF, the man who brings you up to$500 million a year. Manner you never reject, but you are quick to insult him. Mop up your resources, tax those mines, plug the holes of four billion dollars a year. Then you can be proud people. Your sovereignty is undermined when your national budget is supported by other people. Support yourself, reject aid, mobilize domestic resources. Then you can tell of anyone at this stage, you cannot be receiving half a billion dollars a year in one hand and reject the concerns when the owners of the money say you've stolen the money and they expose you now. So until we have uh another momentous discussion, I think on Sunday, God bless you and thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_22 2:55:17

We want change, we want change, we want change, we want change, we want change up for the polygon.

SPEAKER_15 2:56:34

I wanna be able to fiam a little Banamaya, my papi la mung, you battery at wavakuno. I miss a piano seman four, I get Fa male found at the Wafika, ne put a chat, but to a missile I free, one it doesn't have one, no ballet on my way mway, money for me for telling. The wall in the voting at the wabay. The wall in the voting at our bond bay. I do no garbage. Ouya baby, toi, manfield. Ouya baby, I'm gonna go back. Ouya baby, what's the mobile? You don't kobe, yeah. I'll be not giving one code, my wife, by the pizza, by the book, eh, by the bay, by the way, backui. Bye at my banner panakasso. Why on a rebound to labour to a misery lay few? What is both? No ballet, money to me for tire. Ouya, baby, I've got the machine Ouilla, baby, manufacing, moca, fouilla bébélé, banana cannémoia, moi t'as manufini, couilla, bébé, no ma, bébé, on t'a pas en fini, moi, c'est moi.