HOSTING DR. FRED M'MEMBE AND DOLIKA BANDA

LIVE NOW; WE HOST PEOPLE'S PACT LEADERS; DR. FRED M'MEMBE AND MS DOLIKA BANDA TO DISCUSS PERTINENT ISSUES AHEAD OF 2026 ELECTIONS

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:17

We want change, we want change, we want change, we want change, yes, we want the change. We want change, we want chase, we want change, we want the change.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Unsolicited. There was no Juno forced him to make that statement. He made it on his own. We were saying, as a nation, many people in the country were saying Bill 70 is about the 2026 elections. People were denying that. Even himself was denying that. But now he's saying unsolicited. So if Bill 7 is about him winning the elections, if without Bill 7 he was going to lose the elections, what has he done? Yes, what have they done to make them win with Bill Seven? And indeed, if he's not lying, I took Ya la wana nine months. Ichitumbichakwaedigalung, chichi uf. Ichimono no kukake jitumbi. Wa tuale chitumbi chamunobiku prison for nine months. Wa kuatum timawashani. Namku kuko so mtimate ifio. Release that body so that Ediga's family can bury their loved one. Be a human being. Your actions are human. Edgar is not buried today because of you wanting his body. That's all that you want it for.

SPEAKER_17 8:46

Why do you want Edgar's body that much for nine? Wonderful day as we begin today's program. Um, my technician back in Lusaka, um having echo just to ensure that we eliminate that echo. Third May 2026, and we are hosting Dr. Fred Membe and Dolika Banda in this uh uh team that formed under the pact. So for the team in Lusaka, quickly check my echo before I invite my guests.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

Almost nine months now. Your friend can't be buried because you are saying you know, I have to have the body, I have to bury Edgar's body the way I want. Chitumbichobe. Do you want it to eat that body? Is it your body? Is Edgar your relative? Is he your friend? Let him be buried.

SPEAKER_17 9:47

My team tells me the audio output audio is okay. So the feedback could be within my system. I'll trust my team. We are hosting Dr. Fred Membe, Socialist Party president. He was a presidential candidate in 2021 and is participating in this election under a pact. Recently, he made news as a pact. You know, the team has been assembling of various leaders, including Bob Schinga, renowned parliamentarian and you know thought leader in our country, and others. And last week there had a ceremony where they welcomed international financial expert and new entrant to our party politics, uh Dolika Banda, and the two were introduced as president and running mate under the pact as we go to elections. There are various issues that we are going to discuss. I want uh you know them to explain to us a pact. Then we'll be discussing the cancellation of the rights conference. The the largest human rights conference was cancelled at the last minute by the Zambian government. We'll also be discussing the ECL issue. Um, we'll be discussing also whether Zambia is capable of holding credible, free, and fair elections. Let me just bring uh the team that I'm hosting today. Uh let me start with Dr. Fred Membe. Bakalambamu Abombeni, and you are looking good in that royal regalia. Many people will not understand how you are royalty. Maybe we can start with that, Mr. President.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

The first place I put this to the Pamuika Kungkulungweambeshi. Before the Balabuka, Jambeshi, Nakalunguya Pali Valideo, Valipamuika. Pamuika Chimukulu Avane. No, you win it to kill a cannabisa, canabesa, I rich mukuluka polio. Bashile Pumuika Mukulu, whichung follow chamwiku. Lelo get you full of chiachakwachi mukulu. Much fear bashimuku, and a so salamanga. Bakalamabandi, baffial banani and deal info mushrooms, wavandi, bafial banandi. The only one I would call my father passed away banda.

SPEAKER_18 14:05

Now from a babufu.

SPEAKER_17 14:13

Wonderful, thank you for the explanation, Mr. President. Mr. President, let's start. Yeah, let's start with welcoming you. Uh, you and Miss Dolica Bandam. Explain the pact and the process that has brought you together.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Let me start with the fact. The fact is not, the People's Pact is not a creation of the Socialist Party. There was there was a group that has been working for almost two years on trying to bring the opposition back together and have a unified leadership. Unified leadership to get into the elections and also unified leadership to lead the country. They are after any government of national unity. These are citizens who are not in politics. They are not in politics. Some of them are loyal to the assessment, the clergy, some of them are traditional leaders. These are ones who brought us, they have spoken to almost every politician of subsistence one knows. At the end of the day, they brought us together, and I was chosen by the group they brought together to be the presidential candidate. I can say it's not a project of the Socialist Party, it's a project of these people. Even us right now, we don't control as politicians, we don't control the people's party 100%. Maybe our control is 30 to 40 percent. We don't make all the decisions, and we like it that way. Power must be shared, responsibility must be shared with others. Those who are not ready to be led by others should not attempt to lead others. We are being led by others, we are leading together with others, and these are not people seeking positions, seeking anything other than the best for their people. And that's the way it should be. We have the intellectuals who give us ideas, who shape the public discourse. They are leaders, including people dealing with the media like yourself. You are also leaders of our people. And if this country is to be governed properly, to particularly well and make progress, all these leaders must come together and participate on an equal basis and in a manner that is respects each group of leadership. So the People's Party is not an SP project. We never initiated it and we are not running it. Yes, the Socialist Party has been chosen as a special purpose vehicle for the elections. Because the People's Party, although it's registered under the Companies Act as a company limited by guarantee, it cannot participate in the elections, it cannot field people. So the fielding of candidates was agreed to be on the socialist party ticket. But the socialist party does not control who is adopted, it does not control how those parliamentary interparliamentary candidates are going to run. Even the manifesto. The manifesto of the people's party is not a socialist party, the socialist party manifesto. All our political forces that have come in the people's party have put aside the political manifestos, their agendas. What we are pushing is a common agenda. What we are pushing is a national agenda. What we are pushing forward we are done shape and guided by the common and agreed positions.

SPEAKER_17 19:11

And this, I think, uh is what people couldn't tell the difference. That the socialist party is now working under a pact. And for now, you've, I don't know whether it's setting aside the socialist party agenda, but you are now pursuing a common agenda which has made you agree with all. I think this is what will even be a question to Adolika Banda, how she found the pact attractive to join.

SPEAKER_12 19:50

In a new platform, I should say. You have heard me. Say we want to build a leadership that knows that Zambia is working for Zambians and everybody else. So that leading component. Management is about discipline, it's about discipline, it's about fiduciary responsibility to our people. In government, you're merely custodians of the wealth of this country for the people of this country. It is integrity, it is accountability, it is ethics. All of those values have not changed in my discussions from the very beginning and even now in my discussions with the fact. The third one on bus. It is about how we run this country. We cannot continue to do the same thing that we have been doing decade after decade, administration after administration, and expect that this country is going to change. This country is not easy for the ordinary Zambian. And so alignment, my attraction to this pact, particularly after my line with the State Council, John Sangwa, and the movement for national renewal, when that could not get a party license to participate in the elections in 2026, I had only two options. The one option was to say MNR is not registered, we were not likely to get registered, therefore, let me bow out of this race and continue with my life as it was before. Or the other option was, I already had a vision, I had a mission, I had a desire to give back to this country. And I then said to myself, bowing out is not an option. Bowing out is not an option. Therefore, what can I look at that can work together? And as Dr. Membe has said, it wasn't me approaching him or him approaching me. It was advisors above the People's Party, the People's Pact who approached and said, Are you prepared to work with the People's Pact? And for the sake of the country, for the sake of making a difference, for the sake of the people, and for my own sake as an individual, as a proud Zambian, I chose to join this pact. It's made up of different people, but our minds are aligned.

SPEAKER_17 24:53

National issues call us every day. And I'm glad that you found a suitable way vehicle to pursue those um uh values that our country needs to achieve.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Honorable Freddy.

SPEAKER_17 25:17

Indeed. Uh it's a summit, the 2026 summit, and it like I stated, is the world's largest uh conference on human rights. And Zambian government unilaterally decided to cancel such a big, big event that is Zambia is just a small part in this big conference. Of course, Zambia has been cited as uh a country that has violated human rights, that has begun to violate uh especially human rights in light of the digital era. Maybe they were not aware that this conference would cite Zambia as one of the biggest offenders in the world when it comes to rights, human rights, and also rights on the digital rights. What is your making of this cancellation for the conference that should have started Monday and Tuesday and was going to attract over 2,000 supporters?

SPEAKER_02 26:40

We have not heard the reasons for the cancellation from the authorities, from the government to the Republic of Zambia, why it has cancelled. They have not explained it to us. So we can only assume, we can only speculate from conduct, from what has happened in this country. Why would they renege on a commitment over a conference of human rights? Our simple and only explanation is that they are comfortable on the issues to be discussed, they are uncomfortable with the agenda that the human rights conference was going to tackle. They are falling short of the expectations of what is expected of a country from a country that is hosting such a conference or a summit. And indeed, to look at the collapse over the last five years, they have enacted laws that help them to violate humanity. They have input on every freedom one can think of. Look at the conduct of the Zambian government today when it comes to the freedom of freedom of freedom of speech, freedom of the media. Freedom of association. For almost close to five years now, since they have been in government, the socialist party has never been permitted to hold a rally or any meaningful meeting, or even small meetings of our party structures. We applied 34 times for a rally. We got zero. In five years, or close to five years. If they allow us to peacefully hold our raris without the police or their cadres disturbing us, we are not sure. And nobody is guaranteed that. They enacted the cyber laws that they were opposed to when they were in opposition, on the basis of them violating human rights. Today they have those laws which violate human rights, which they themselves said they were violating human rights when the PF government wanted to introduce some of them. Look at the freedom of association. What is happening to all forms of association, including political. Indeed, it's not easy to go to the register of societies and register a political party or some association that deals with politics.

SPEAKER_17 30:36

Indeed, Mr. President. It is a matter of serious worry. Another matter I would like to bring to your attention, and either of you can answer, is the electoral landscape and how it is changing dramatically, and there are doubts whether Zambia will have and will host credible, democratic, free and fair elections. Parliament is sitting currently. There are 74 bills that parliament has to process before it is dissolved by 15th May. And in this parliament, there's another fundamental thing that has occurred where members of parliament have crossed floors. They've decided to defect either as independents or as PF members and have joined the UPND. And that matter has not been attended to. I can give an example. Chama South MP Davison Mungandu Chasefu, Independent MP, Mishek Nyambose, Mafinga MP Robert Chavinga, Moses Moyo, the second deputy speaker, also joined the UPND. And then there is no question, despite what the law says, what the constitution says, and what precedents the courts have created, these men have remained in parliament. And then there are 74 bills before parliament to process before uh May 15th. What do you take of this, uh, Honorable Fred Meme?

SPEAKER_02 32:26

The UPND has no respect for law. The law is that which favors them, the law is that which they want. If it was members of the UPND moving to join opposition political parties, you see them being dismissed from parliament. Even if there are no by-elections, the time for by-elections passed, they will still be removed. And probably even risk losing their benefits, some of their benefits. But because you are joining the UPND, it doesn't matter. And it's not only when it comes to parliament where the law is disrespected, is disregarded, is set aside by the UPND. Even when it comes to criminal offenses, other criminal offenses, including corruption, if you are on their side, you get away. Or if with them and you are not in good terms with Mr. Ichilema, then things change. That's why you are finding today opposition members who have got issues with the law, they are running to join the UPND. So that they escape prosecution, they escape being accountable. That's what is happening. If you check all these people moving to the to the UPND, the great majority of them, I'm not saying all, but the majority of them have issues with the law. And a country cannot be governed like this. When that is taken away, there's no rule of law. It means that those who administer the criminal system abuse it.

SPEAKER_17 35:21

Sorry, Mr. President. Let me come to Miss Dolica Banda. In your opening remarks, you made a fundamental issue that something that brought you together is the issue of um national unity and national programs. Just amplify those thoughts because I think you are keen to participate in the electoral process and in the governance of our country. And your persuasion to these values is what keeps on you. It doesn't matter what vehicle. Just speak to these values that you think needs to be achieved for our country.

SPEAKER_12 36:02

Thanks, Manuel. And I want to again uh just speak about like um uh Dr. Membe has said, as regards the selective application, the selfish um crafting and implementation of the rule of law. As we go into this election, at the end of the day, we as a people, we as citizens deserve the leadership that we put in place. And so the violations that we see for a country that has demonstrated democracy over seven different administrations, we need to ask ourselves, no matter who crosses over, are we following individuals or are we following principle? Are we following somebody else's position and name and style, or are we following our dreams, not for our children, but for our children, three generations down? What country are we trying to build? It doesn't matter what incentive you are given. Ask yourself, is it going to change? Or on a CDF lay, or on the mini meal, or on cooking oil, or one pasemat, or one passe to supper, or one pasem. After the election, a month after the election, mu September, to October after the election. Ni kalandi remain budget yaoli mi motunene. Was niu anata can pase budget yauli. Mwekangi wa kutipi. Yure di echep. Mwambo chaida wantu no senga, losing your dignity, hard working people. Forced kusenga. Kuti miambeso tulini. So, pakuyo vota na papapata, please. Tiko Ganesa. Osa tikuta tasa change watipasa vitenge na vote. Ngati mufuna tolani vitenji. Bati polo wam balot boxira. Ni we weka wamatunga mzi. Oralume manko, oralongos kalata lungo si bako, orovana manko, www na nini kuzi wa utuwa votela uwi wwa votela uwa, batika vote na sensi na papat. So titika wuke la siko pa tetin. Na wuki tetinth ogas tika wuteku vote. Wovo vota tikagani zeniu anokamba sen sia papabantu won siaba. Tapaka. Nasenba opposition tapak. Na wali monomba, na wanam pam. Tim pamfu sale. So I want to ask and beg our Zambian people. Let us change we vote. Let us vote on our personalities. Let us not vote for style. Let us not vote for pockets of money. Let us vote for vision, bold vision. Let us vote for people who have not been tainted in the past. People who can give us a new way of trying things. I wanted to say that we fit into any of these things. That comes into the question that you have asked me, Emmanuel, about governance. Governance for me is not something that we should talk about like it's an academic conversation. Governance is about care. Governance in my language is about how do you live? How do you carry yourself? How do you carry your family? How do you represent your family? That's not governance. In my culture, they'll always say, oh saluwa kawfuma. Because if you behave out there in a bad way, nobody's going to say Dolika has behaved badly. They're going to say, Is that the reputation we want for our country as Zambia? We are bigger than this. Governance is about what? For me, primarily, governance is about national pride. Governance is about being able to walk out on the streets, hold my head high, my shoulders high, and say, I am proudly Zambian. I don't indulge in drugs. I don't indulge in theft. I don't indulge in all these social ills that we are seeing today, young people on the streets. But what does that require? That requires accountability. That requires a leadership that says, this is our budget, these are the areas that we intend to our budget in: education, health, agriculture, infrastructure, and be able to say to the Zambian people, we said the budget was X, we were going to send it on Y. We have actually spent it on X minus Y. Is the reason why? Be transparent with us. All the global borrowings that we have, the international debt that we have, tell us why we're carrying that burden. That is governance. If I ask, you talked about the Human Rights Conference here. What are we hiding? Governance is about being comfortable enough to not have to hide anything from the Zambian people, from the global world. Let us be open, let us be trans, let us be fair, let us lead a country that is equitably available economically opportunity to every single Zambian that is living today and in the future. That is what it's about. We are custodians. In leadership in government, you're custodians for the Zambian people, for every resource, mineral, agricultural, flora, corner, waterways that belong to the Zambians, where they are custodian. You don't own these things. And that is good leadership. That is leadership that is led by a government structure.

SPEAKER_17 43:06

Indeed, indeed, Mr. Dolika Banda, thank you very much for those clear thoughts on the path that our country should take. Let me throw this question to uh Honorable Dr. Fred Membe. Dr. Membe, the issue of the late president, you've been uh very passionate about it. You've urged President Hakainde H Lema to put closure to this matter. Last week, the nation was shocked to learn that there was almost illegal retrieval of the president's body, and the following day, a post mortem was carried out on the late president's remains without the consent of the family, his lawyers, or even their presence. This shocked the country to the core. I bring this matter up because you've been so passionate to the extent that the state harassed you and even arrested you over your remarks regarding this matter. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Zambia nice. I wouldn't I defend a wash. I didn't have a m sound to volush. And he has to defend himself. And he never defended himself against witchcraft charges. See, and even after. I never heard anybody accuse him of witchcraft. I never heard him defend himself against such accusations. Seven years were take care. That wa um file son to volush. Or where he was defending himself against some accusations. Never heard him defend himself against three years where they kill. If you are wanga edgarung and shall report level kate ka besu he's spending time defending himself. Again is to volosh. Again is taking body parts, body parts of Edgar Lungu. Cham se vanya son. Mumu singa mwaingila if you are volosh. Mwa tampo class on tano volosh. Level to fire poe. Ya kutika take kam white president.

SPEAKER_17 47:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

Alleged if you have. Thank you. Instead of explaining important things. Lepoka mungwa, as far as I can remember, there was no there's been nobody who has been taken to prison. On nations of trying to be which president. And they are convicted. And you are prosecuted on a criminal in our courts in the name of the president. So these people are in prison in the name of Mr. Hilema Baddy for Kloa Ba Ichile. Expect to tap into important issue.

SPEAKER_17 48:13

It is a serious yeah, it is a serious presentation. Let me bring in Dolika Banda on this the feelings for the widow. As a woman, I don't know when you look at this matter and the pain that you assume she should be going through. Uh just give us your opinion about this matter.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

No. I've never heard him address the plight of the widow, the plight of Edgar's children, the plight of Edgar's family. What he talks about is his own plight. His own interest. His own interest is to bury Edgar. It's about himself. It's not about Edgar and his family. And also, even just a little bit of respect for the dead. We say so because the High Commissioner to South Africa was there, or some High Commission staff were there. Zambian officials, government officials were there for the post modem. The only people who were not there is Eddie Gar's family. So today we are disgraced with witchcraft. Today we are disgraced with lack of compassion. Compassion for the dead, compassion for the grieving family. The mourning family is not an issue to Mr. Hichrema. He's not concerned what Edgar's widow feels, what Edgar's children feel, what Edgar's relatives feel. It's not an issue. What type of a society is this? What type of Christians are we? What type of society do we want? A society without compassion. A society without care. A society based on greedy, vanity, completely lacking humility. And you want to develop? And you want to quickly endevote mucharo? And you want the participation of others. Is this love for other people? Can Mr. Hichilema claim to love Zambians today? If he cannot to those who are mourning, he cannot even show compassion before.

SPEAKER_17 52:31

As a woman, I don't know what your comments are about this matter.

SPEAKER_12 52:49

I think this subject matter has debate been debated ad nauseum. And I have three things to say. Number one, it is not a subject matter that should be dominating our conversations today. When what we should be focused upon is the development of this country, is building a country that serves the Zambian people in terms of the issues of we cascade it into cost of living, but it is really the issues of how do we build this country using the wealth that it has, it's a country that serves every single Zambian as best as possible. We're addressing real issues because this has become the issue at a time when we should be thinking about what are we going to do about uplifting 70% of our population, that's approximately 14 million people who are living under 40 quachas per day. Had it been resolved amicably between the two points, we would all be focusing on the real issues that matter. That's the first point I want to make. The other two points I want to make, number one, so that first point is about why are we all engaged in this conversation? Let the two people sort of get it done and dusted, and let us focus on what we need to get done in this country. Number two, it has had a devastating impact on us culturally. I'm speaking personally as a woman, you said, but I think as a Zambian, this is contradictor. This goes against everything that we know traditionally. That's me speaking from my personal perspective traditionally. Secondly, this has had a terrible impact on brand Zambia, our country, the country that people all over the world once respect, once considered a beacon, not only for South Africa, not only for the Southern African Asian, but for the whole concept of democracy, humanity, humanism, whatever you called it, embracing everybody all over, that destroyed our reputation. To be sitting in London, in Johannesburg, here in Zambia, BBC News talking about Zambia, the country that has failed to bury me, for that matter, but particularly a former head of state, it's shameful. Whatever it takes, both sides.

SPEAKER_17 56:27

Um Dr. Fred Membe. Yeah, thank you, Dolica. Yeah, thank you. Honorable Dr. Fred Memem, I think the state of the country seems to have been summarized properly by Ambassador uh Gonzalez's speech at his farewell party. What are your thoughts about that speech?

SPEAKER_02 56:54

Firstly, maybe before I touch that, we are a laughing stock, the whole world. The whole continent is laughing at us. We are being mocked wherever we go in the region. First, there was the issue of a chameleon being used to bewitch the president. That was ridiculous or ludicrous. And people are in prison for bewitching the president or trying to bewitch the president. We thought it would end there. Today the president is defending himself against witchcraft, that wish of you are saying. What is taking away their humanity, their dignity? We are discussing Wanga day in and day out. You look at the social media, that's what is going on. Nobody is talking about the 82.6% poverty that is in Muchinga. Nobody is talking about the 78.6% poverty that is in Western province. Nobody is talking about the 78% poverty in northern province. Nobody's mentioning about the 77.3% poverty in Wapula. Nobody is talking about this the 676 76.4% poverty in Eastern province. The problems that our country faces are huge. Today we are 22 million. In 12 to 15 years, the population of this country will double. Will be more than 44 million Zambians in 12 to 15 years, given the population growth rate of 3.5 average and 4% in urban areas. If we are failing to feed 22 million, how are we going to feed 44 million in 12 to 15 years? What schemes do we have in agriculture? How are we going to make agriculture productive where 80% of our people are deployed, directly or indirectly, but producing only 3.5% of our GDP? How are we going to create jobs for these young people who are leaving school, leaving college, leaving university to find no job with them? How are we going to wipe out tears from the mothers, from the fathers who every day are struggling to feed their children and their grandchildren because the parents are not working? They have finished school, they start producing children who are living with the parents. So the parents are looking after their own children and their children's children. Sleeping in a small room. We don't have proper sanitation for 22 million people. What programs are we discussing to deal with these problems in 12 to 15 years? The president is spending time in Pabwanga, Pavulosh. Why can't we feel sorry? Can't we be compassionate for the populations that are living in extreme poverty? People are taking their lives, they are committing suicide because they just can't cope. Because God has given us everything that we need to live well in this country. Everything that we need, he has given.

SPEAKER_17 1:03:51

And Zambia's problem is not the billions that Americans are pumping in because it will be stolen. He's talking about leadership. What do you say to that? And both of you, I think, can answer that fundamental question.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:04

The ambassador, it's embarrassing to be told by an American ambassador that we should take care of our own people. We should be responsible for the destiny of our own country. We have 1.2 million Zambians today living with HIV. And we put them under the care of foreigners and others to take care of 1.2 million of our fellow citizens. If the Americans pull the plug, if the other donors pull the plug, the lives of the 1.2 Zambians are threatened. And this is what Ambassador Gonzalez is telling us: take care of your own people. How do you place the well-being of your people in the hands of other people, foreigners, and you call yourselves leaders? What are you leading? Who are you leading? Who are you taking care of? We are being told use your resources properly, use even what we have given you properly. Okay, you can steal what you you what is yours, but don't steal what we have given you. You annoy us. Let's not make a mistake we made in 2021. Some of us pointed it out. We warned you Zambians that fix for you. We were assist a fair opposition political party. Even today, political parties, opposition leaders who are not different from our kind. If we tell you these people are not opposition leaders to lead this country, again, you same people, you say our fellow opposition leaders. But we have a duty to tell our people the truth. If we don't pay attention to leadership, like in the past, the future will depend on the type of leadership we construct for the decisions we make on the 13th of August of over leadership will determine where this country will be. And don't be shocked. If after August you still face the same problems, don't say we didn't tell you, we are telling you today. You know these people are crooks. You still think they can become better if you put them to Ngush. We warned you, Kauna warned you, you warned you, you didn't listen.

SPEAKER_17 1:08:35

Indeed. When you listen to the speech of the ambassador, and he singled out the issue after cataloguing the issues of corruption, the issues of misery and misgovernance, he narrowed it down to the issue of integrity and leadership. He says, The problem here is not the resources, it's a leadership issue. What are your reflections over that?

SPEAKER_12 1:09:05

I was in that room or in that gathering when Ambassador Gonzalez. Anger and shame. I was ashamed that anyone, but particularly a foreign diplomat could stand and speak about my country in a way that was telling us. And you are at the bottom of the heap in your own country. I'm being very blunt, very aggressive. Basically, what that was saying we are fools. That fortune favors fools. We have a fortune upon which we sit. In our own country, we are the poorest people. We are at the bottom of the heap. That was the shame that I felt. But let's strip away excuses. Adena Zambia. We must strip away the excuses we make for our mediocrity. Let us take responsibility for why we are where we are as a country. It is about us. We have accepted, we have allowed ourselves to be in a position where, on our own rich soil, somebody can come and tell us what is wrong with this country. And the response, largely, the unstated response we got is fear. People are afraid of it. Even as we speak here today, people will come and say, You are so stupid because you're putting yourself in the line of or you are so brave. What is happening in this country in Anu is not okay. It's not okay. We talk about Asogole, Bakateka, but as much about us as a people as it is about that one person to whom we entrust our whole wealth and well-being and say that is the leader. Leadership is in all of us, each and every single single who accepts on a daily basis to go against the law, to go against regulation, to go against policies. Each one of us is responsible for the problems that we have today, and ultimately to vote for people that we have not organized. How does others behave around that person? When we go select leaders, anything that we and then we vote for those people. When you go to select a leader, because you have to live with the consequences of the attitude, the behaviors, the drive, the ambition of that person for lifetime to come. It's not five years. The impact of any leader that has in years goes beyond five years. So, Emmanuel, for me, for the listeners and the viewers on this program, leadership is not, cannot be entrusted in one person. Leadership has got to be entrusted across a board of governors, across a you cannot have one person tell us what to do as a country, and everybody follows. We cannot do that. We are responsible, I'll say it again, we are responsible for the leadership that we have as citizens and voters, and we are responsible for the state of this country as voters and citizens. Don't blame one person. Blame ourselves. Let us think, let us act. And that's just the way we do it.

SPEAKER_17 1:14:35

This is collective shame. This is collective uh blame. Um the leaders that are in power as a result of our own vote. So while we blame them, we also have to blame ourselves for the choices and decisions we make. Let me come to Dr. Fred Membe. When you look at the state of our country, it's in a pitiful state. And the people of Zambia are looking to you, the opposition. I first need to commend you, Mr. President, that you are walking the path of uniting the opposition. At least you are in a pact. You've brought people beyond the Socialist Party, including Ms. Dolika Banda. And you are trying to unite the opposition. But the efforts our people still think they are not enough. Kindly just speak to the issue of unity in the opposition and what we should do even at this late hour. I'm saying this because the country is surprised that between 25 to 29 presidential candidates have filed. There's one President Dakainde HDM and 28 others from the opposition. This is very worrying. But like I'm saying, we need to commend you for the efforts you've made, at least at your level. You've tried various issues and you seem to have settled with the People's Pact. But is this enough? What are you doing to your other senior colleagues in the opposition?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:08

But before I cut the issue of unit, let me add something on Ambassador Gonzalez's statement. There's something that is grossing over something we are trying to push aside. Also behaved in a similar way, albeit in a slightly different way. How many are in prison? And Gonzalez is saying we don't prosecute them, we don't. We leave them. If they had stolen, they would have been prosecuted. But that's what Ambassador Gonzalez is saying. We don't prosecute people. And because we don't prosecute them, they give themselves a new life. And they use the non-prosecution as a cleansing process. So these problems are not new. It's not about UPND alone. The people in EPF also, according to Gonzalez, did the same things. And today some of them wanted to be presidents of this country, wanted to be vice president of this country, wanted to be ministers in the next government, wanted to be members of parliament, mayors, counselors in the next government. And we shouldn't it. And they are not talking about it, they are focusing on UPND. And they are saying they are clean because they are not prosecuted by anybody. And this UPND people will say the same thing next time. Yet we know why they are prosecuted. So these are issues that we shouldn't play around. Again, not to say Vana. Coming to the issue of unity. In the Socialist Party, we are very clear that the Socialist Party alone, no matter what support it gets from our people, cannot solve the problems facing our country today. We need the unity of all our people. We need the unity of all our leaders. As I said, the traditional leaders, the religious leaders, the business leaders, the trade union leaders, the intellectuals, and so on and so forth. They need to participate in a meaningful way. And the problems we have cannot be solved by one idea. We need all the ideas from the leadership of our people that I've mentioned. Synthesized. Without anybody claiming to have superior ideas, to have a superior vision. What we are looking for is not a single genius. We are not looking for a magaiva. We are looking for a collective genius, not a single genius. But again, we are seeing the same mentality of 2021. Of Baruch will fix it. There's another person calling himself one, another one calling himself this or that again. But it amounts to the same thing: a MacGyver, a fixer, a Samson. There is no collective leadership that is being talked about. The issue of unity is not just to win an election, is to move our people from the most challenging, the most anguishing situation they face today. The situation of poverty. Poverty removes the dignity from a human being. Hunger is degrading. And the first unit that our people are asking us for is to unite to change government. So that we have a government that is more inclusive. A government that increases the participation of our people. And the people participate through their leaders. So, as socialists, we have never put our ideology, we have never put our party above the people. The strategic objective is to improve the living conditions of our people. That's a strategic objective. And that should not be mistaken for the party. The party is not the strategic objective, it's not the goal. It's a tool. The party is simply a tool to use to move our people to the desperate situation they are in. So we have been talking to other people. This was the mandate we got from the last Congress of the party in September 2024. The Congress of the Socialist Party mandated us, ordered us to go and work with others. So we have the full mandate of the Socialist Party with the Congress resolution. And that resolution is filed with the Registry of Societies. And in these discussions for unity, we have to any group with a condition. And we are telling people we are we are engaging you without any condition. We have engaged the various PF groups and we have told them we are coming to you without any condition. And there's nothing that cannot be discussed in this unit. But most of them, as you can see, they are not with us. They run away. What we are learning is they don't want the social party. They are saying it. We are difficult people, we are too strict. Tabakulapo Kama contract. Tabakulaiba. And we have made it very clear the first people who start with in government, even if it's a government of national unity, who expect a very high level of fidelity from the socialist members. Even in the government of unity, if we have meaningful participation in that government, socialists who still will be the first ones to go to prison. By December, some of our people from the socialist party will be in prison. And we are saying so with confidence because we know in the socialist party they are also rotten eggs. You give them 1,000 quacha for party work, they'll be lucky not to the party will be lucky to have 600 quacha used for that activity. They will pocket the money. What more when they have control over government resources, which are which are bigger? So we have no doubt by December a number of socialists will be in prison. And it can't be a corruption fight if we are targeting the UPME people, we are targeting the PF people, we are targeting those who are in MMD, but we are not dealing with the current. When we talk about the future, we mean it. The future is not a calendar, the future is built on the threshold of today, on the decisions we take today, the actions we take today, we are building the future. So there are no exemptions. We want unity, but that unity has been eluding us. And there are people who think they can win on their own. And when they talk about unity, they want others to come and support them. That's not unity. They should be very clear. They should just say, come and support us. We are not asking anyone to come and support us. We are asking people to come and join us in a partnership to lead the country. Even if you know I'm already adopted as a presidential candidate for the People's Party, we have made it very clear. It's not cast in stone. My dear sister here and testify that we had people who are destined to be running mates. She was told, even the position of me being the candidate, it's still under discussion. It's not cast in stone. I was not born to be president. And we are not putting the interests of our people above or below us. We are ready to achieve a meaningful unity. But it's not just a unit about winning the elections. It's a unity to govern the country in a manner that will benefit our people. It's not about sharing positions. When you meet some of these leaders, ambassador, it's embarrassing. The word people does not come in. The Zambian people are nowhere when the doors are closed. They don't talk about the Zambian people. Then it's about themselves. We don't mind about things. We didn't have to discuss with my sister here about what is in it for her. Let me make it very clear. She did not come to be the running mate.

SPEAKER_17 1:28:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:06

She did not come to be running mate. Those are comforting words. I want to make it clear. She didn't come as running mate. It was given to her by the entire collective of the people's pack. She never asked to be running mate. She never asked for a position. She wanted to the pack to work in any capacity. So let's not make the mistake of thinking she came to negotiate to be the running mate. No, we gave it to her as a collective. That's why you have not heard anybody get annoyed. That's how come it's Dorica, not me. It was a collective decision of both the promoters of this project or the trustees of this project and us, the political players. We all agreed. So, Ambassador was talked, we still talk to others until the last day. Even after nominations, we continue to look for unity. It's not a happinist issue for us, it's a strategic issue. We are not seeking just a happinistance alliance to win an election. We are seeking a strategic alliance to change the living conditions of our people. That's the main goal. The main goal is not just the removal of our kite. The main goal is to change the living conditions of our people. That's the strategic objective. People cannot live in this level with this level of poverty. It's degrading, it is dehumanizing. God never made us to come and suffer to this level.

SPEAKER_17 1:29:42

Yeah. We'll be opening the phone lines just now. You've heard the clear explanation from uh uh PAC leader uh Dr. Fred Membe. I'm hosting Dr. Fred Membe and Dolika Banda. They are here to discuss the national issues that have beset our country and the preparations for our elections that are due. Uh, I'll have the last questions, but I'll open the lines and I think we'll bring it later. The the the state of our country, where are we able to host credible, free and fair elections in light of the state of ECZ, in light of um the new laws that have been set, in light of all these things happening around the electoral process. Is Zambia ready to have you know a democratic, credible, transparent, free and fair elections? When we come back, we'll take your calls. If you have any calls for the duo, Dr. Fred Membe and Dolika Banda. And Dr. Fred Memba, I forgot to congratulate you. You just obtained a PhD, a second PhD. Congratulations once again. You are aware Dr. Fred Membe is president of the Socialist Party, but as he explained that during this five-year period, they've set aside the programs of the Socialist Party, they've embraced a collective program where they have come together under the People's Pact. And they are stated that although candidates who stand under the Socialist Party is a mayor vehicle to implement the programs of uh the People's Pact. If you have any questions for uh the duo, the lines are now open. Uh you can please call. Please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and give us your contribution.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:11

And president you know, party unit unity report. For example, present a unity, but joining a support. You tell unity to refer. So unity if I refer you to a president, Freddy Member. Yeah, we have to unity to require Freddy Member.

SPEAKER_17 1:34:46

Thank you very much. Alokola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and give us your contribution.

SPEAKER_11 1:34:54

Thank you, Ambassador Mwaba. Senior Dani on the line.

SPEAKER_17 1:34:57

Senior make your contribution.

SPEAKER_11 1:34:59

But Dr. Membe Mulishanina Watorika Banda Murishan Mukwaiban to Mule Landa. But because if I want to ever land a chapamo number as a nation. But Dr. Membe, you are a very experienced man and you are exposed. But Membe tule as a country. Because if you are not going to work together, Bamembe, we will not have a Zambia. Let's put our egos and our pride aside. But let's put Zambia first. And then we also know what we need to do. That's what everyone will be asking you. God bless you and God bless Zambia. Thank you, Ambassador Mwamba.

SPEAKER_17 1:35:48

Thank you very much. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and tell us your contributions.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:54

Thank you very much, Ambassador Mwamba. My name is Uncle Jay.

SPEAKER_17 1:35:58

Um, make your contribution.

unknown 1:36:02

Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:04

Um, greetings to the president and uh the the running mate, um Madam Vice President, if I may call that. Um just just to start with, I think I appreciate uh the way uh President Membe has articulated issues. I think he's on point. Uh what he's spoken to is exactly what Indians need. But I'm a little bit uncomfortable with uh Madam Dorica in the way she's come out. I strongly feel like, you know, the issue of uh ECAO's uh family and body for me is a national issue that we should uh that requires every leader to be uh concerned. So for her to say, you know, we shouldn't be talking about this. This is an issue that has to be confronted. It's there it has happened, and I expect everybody that just like the president has spoken, I would have loved that to strongly condemn it. We cannot run away from uh, you know, the evil that happened and say we should be discussing, you know, national matters. That is a serious issue that every well-meaning Zambian should be able to talk about and deal with it. I I don't think I'm I'm not happy the way she's you know put it like it's not an issue that we should even be talking about. It has happened, it has never happened in our country, but it has happened, so we cannot stay away from this issue. I really expected her to strongly condemn it. I I I really seek uh a serious response from her regarding this matter. I thank you.

SPEAKER_17 1:37:43

Thank you very much. Now, I think what she meant was that this matter should have been resolved, the extent to which it has reached, you know, is shocking the entire country, but she will speak in her wrong words. Hello, Cola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from. Hello, yes, colour. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and give us your contributions.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:06

Okay, I'm colour. We're calling you from within Lusaka.

SPEAKER_17 1:38:09

Mr. Kalo, where make your contributions?

SPEAKER_03 1:38:13

Uh um, I just want to talk about uh opposition unit. Um I've been following uh the alliances and people talking about unity for the past two or three years. But what is so disheartening is that uh the unity that some people are talking about, uh if there's no element of PF, then it's not the opposition unity. We have so much so many great leaders in this country. We have Dr. Fred Membe there, we have Madame Dorica Banda there, and many other people who are presenting themselves to the Zambian people who have never read uh you know this country before.

SPEAKER_17 1:39:05

Oh we lost him, but I think it's very clear. He says there are many people that can form unity outside the patriotic front. Uh please tell us your name and where you are calling us from.

SPEAKER_16 1:39:52

What she meant exactly. No, no, no, no, no. I really really hear exactly what she said. I I didn't understand it very well. Ever number, why come audience?

SPEAKER_17 1:42:16

Thank you. Let me take the last caller because no, we are doing an outside broadcast and my team needs to go. Yeah, thank you very much. Let me take the last caller. Uh alo, last caller. Tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_14 1:42:30

Ambassador Mwabomben. No, if we know I've been following the lovely program, and the my brother are doing a very, very good job to bring our leaders so that I want to won't see what ambassador president member now sister Vesuwa Dorika Banda. Uh the folk one stuck with a mafia, economy, and everything was not moving. The noble people from the different religion, background, professional came together and formed the movement for mouth power democracy. I'll just get some few names from the MMD. We are the Elas Topimo, Andrew Kashita, Edward Shamwana, uh Arthur Wiener, Scota Wiener, Bangrim Lemba. Just to mention a few. All those people they were presidential material. But while very important at that particular moment in MMD. They came together for a purpose. Most of them, sorry to say that they had a lot of qualifications to become presidential candidates. But what is teacher, Zambia, Kuluya, Uteco, nama problems waiting. Mustte kompea, na ma MP Nama ministers wa kwete wa MD. So lande show Bali Awantwa Kaliwa kwe tama qualification. Pantwakali kwetum tumaku wombela wantu. Awantu tu kwete pali nošta. Tabaku e tomu tumwaku bombe avantu. Ina to nelu mbakuba membe. Ba membe is senior most amongest those people. Awalefoku iminabu president. And ne forana pachichinka. Takuli political parties. Eo to kwete mu opposition. Awenda kwani to kuina UPND Veta Party. Bamwamba, notwata 12,151 polling stations, not quata 1,000 plus counselors. Not quata 226 constituency. Not quite 113 mayor and chairpers. Just to have almost close to 30,000 polling agencies and polling assistants. Takuli political party in the Kwanisha. Takuli political party in the Kwanisha usta feature 226 aspiring candidates. But Chile Mwekwa tava the wonse nawaitumba. Challenge Amazambia niwava very disappointed. Bamembe Milomba. Wa Ali Kalawande Milomba. Ba Makebizuru tule Milomba. Bakeb tule milomba. Ba munduvira tule milomba. Nabambiava chala. Tamuko eteka pastit individual political party ukuwina wa you PND. Ikale nipamo mulumureavina Zambia. Tule milomba tupa. Otherwise mkweteve 14, fifteen days. Uku m solving arm problems. Otherwise ikava fini academic.

SPEAKER_17 1:47:29

I thank you. Mr. President, I don't know where people were. Now all my phones are hitting up. Maybe let me just take two more, then we throw to you. Allo Cola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from, and kindly be brief.

SPEAKER_15 1:47:43

Yeah, this is Precious Sinagiam from Livingston.

SPEAKER_17 1:47:46

Precious, make your contributions quickly.

SPEAKER_15 1:47:50

Yes, uh, just want to ask uh the president, my friend Membe. Uh, the way that she's said, they are very much wise weight, but uh, I'm not just happy with his uh running mate uh uh Dorica, where she was saying that they should not be talking about the issue of ECL. You know, ECL, even when he was still alive, he used to call upon all opposition leaders to be united and fight this battle together. And I was expecting my friend Membe is a very much concerned person, even in this issue of Barungu. So I was expecting them, all of them, to follow the way that Barungu told them. Because I remember Barungu when he was too alive, they were they used to be in meetings and they agreed on one thing. They said this battle they are fighting, they are fighting one battle, and they only have one enemy. And that enemy, it is my UPNG who is making our life miserable. So I was expecting all of them to be united and support one person. And uh them, for them, they've been in contesting for so many years, but they failed to do a deal to succeed. So even now, they cannot say that they win the people of Zambia. No. What I was expecting, I was expecting them, all of them to be united and support one person, to choose one person who they can support.

SPEAKER_17 1:49:13

Thank you, precious. Thank you very much. Uh uh Mama Dolika will answer the question, and the issue of unity keeps on coming up. There are so many calls, but unfortunately, I have to be people. Maybe we will allow Dr. Membe and Dolica to leave. They will answer the questions, maybe then I can open your questions later because there are so many calls. This but this is our last caller for now. Caller, please tell us your name and uh make your contributions.

SPEAKER_13 1:49:37

Uh, good uh good evening, Ambassador. Good evening, uh, and the the rest of the people.

SPEAKER_17 1:49:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_13 1:49:44

Um, I think I'm just uh uh commenting, it's not even a question, but the commenting just like the previous callers have uh have mentioned, their prey is genuine. Their prey is genuine as a people of the country. We see you see you.

SPEAKER_17 1:50:00

know membe just like what other my brother said that you are the most one of the most senior personnel there candidate you know what is going on for you just to speak and cry that let the let the lungu be buried you were incarcerated you are you are arrested you are now anytime soon will be appearing in court over those remarks now imagine you give this person chance another five years trust me people will die and we have people who have been persecuted not because they did any wrong just because they stood for the country they are now appearing before the courts so our my call is may you please bury your pride you know what your our political all these political political parties all all these political parties what they are what they can offer by the end of the day I know sometimes people can size themselves that I'm more powerful than the other but look the most powerful people opposition is the people of the country so may you please unite for the betterment of this country how we are going to choose how we are going to divide how we are going to uh give yourselves uh opposition it's up to you but for now let's get let's kill this glory it's a if for that matter let's come together and defeat this uh government taking thank you very much i'll i'll throw the question back to honorable Fred Membe most of the questions relate to unity of the opposition and people really want all the factors and all the the senior leaders in the opposition to unite under some form of banner a matter and where you have been to and for honorable uh Dolika Banda your remarks about uh the funeral I think we could have been misunderstood but to give you the opportunity to clarify and to our dear callers thank you very much there are so many of you and all the phones have lit up but unfortunately we have to go let's give honorable Dr.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:00

Fred Membi let's start with you let me start with a misunderstanding over what my sister Dorica said here about funeral I think she has been grossly misunderstood at no time today this issue should not be discussed what she said is this issue the discussion should have died a long time ago because this is a known issue a known issue in the sense that it's a clear issue that doesn't need to it didn't need to take the route it has taken it didn't need to take the time it has taken on a Tuesday it will be 11 months since my brother Edgar left us eleven months in the fridge save for the five hours they took him to cut him into pieces this issue I agree with Dorica it should have died a long time we would now be looking at preparations for the memorial not preparations for the burial what are we going to do on the 5th of June when we're supposed to be to have a memorial that's what Dorica was saying so please she did not say we should not discuss this issue and I can confidently say so because this is an issue we discussed in tenar with her so I know her position on this take it from me coming to the issue of unit which almost every caller has touched for us in the socialist party this is not a Fred member issue to decide it was decided for me by Congress I don't have an option as president of the socialist party party to pursue the unity is a directive of Congress Congress told us to pursue unity with others and this was in September 2024. It's not an issue of yesterday no the second Congress of the Socialist Party in September 2024 directed us to pursue unity and that directive as I said is filed with the registrar of societies and if you go and check on that resolution it does not say you socialist party president go and have unity where you will be president it doesn't say so we are not pursuing a hegemonistic issue we are not told to go and lead whatever alliances we get into we don't have that directive we were told go and work with others working with others it means you work with them on equal terms you can't go and pursue unity when you are superior to others when you feel you are superior to others you are going to recruit them to support you we were not asked by Congress to go and look for people to support SP to go and look for other political parties to support SP's presidential candidate no the resolution is very clear is to seek alliances with others and we made it also very clear to our members and we still remind them to this very day that alliances mean that we can be led by others and also it will mean that program has to be aside for the period of the alliance and pursue a national agenda and that's what we are doing. And our members are ready to because it's their decision when they directed us to go and pursue alliances they did not tell us go and lead others so we are ready to be led by others and the issue of unity we have pursued it in a very serious way from October 2024 we have been pursuing unity pursued with unity with the PF and it also as it was at that time you can talk to Givenbinder you can talk to you can talk to Bankanduluo we have held meetings way into 02 a m at no time did we want to impose ourselves as leaders if anything in all these meetings we have made concessions that they have not reciprocated we have made concessions to our partners without them reciprocating and if anything our friends in PFO are very guilty of that I'm not accusing them but I'm just stating facts so that people know we are not the type of leaders who parade themselves whoever we meet is a picture media is a clip put in the social media no I personally have gone to Pf leaders and other leaders I've gone to their homes out to me to to to to to Mr Giving Rubinda's home up to about midnight 2 a.m with Dr. Musumari pursuing him for days we couldn't get over and we told him I was with Dr. Musumari we told him we come with no conditions and things that we have done can be undone is there Mr Giban Lubinda to speak for himself we have spent endless hours with Dr. Chitao Chirufia and also even him we told him we come with no conditions I've spent time with Mr Honorable Mao Zampa again same approach you can ask them as we don't lie and no pictures you have not seen any pictures but it's long long hours we have met with Dr. again no conditions there's an initi there are other initiatives by other people there's an initiative that is still ongoing by Chalakateka we have met there with other leaders I've been to a KBF's home we have spent long hours in our KBF at his home I followed again in no conditions and in no restriction on anything we didn't go there and say this is not negotiable no so the issue of humility of humbling themselves ourselves is not there it concerns us the people you are talking about we have been there have been in touch with them they are very few we're in touch with ask them if we have put any conditions to them we have not gone to ask for support from them we have gone to ask for a working relationship an alliance ask them why it's not there it's not there because of the socialist party no and right now I'm not only representing the socialist party I'm also representing the people's party promoters of the people's party are also still working to this very day still working seeking unit with others again they are not approaching people with conditions as far as as as I know I don't sit in their meetings yeah I I think we don't there's no issue of us going there with pomposity with the arrogance of being this and that you have not seen pictures flying around like others do no we don't we we don't do it for for for for publicity it's not posturing we don't posture this is too important an issue to posture around to be seen that you are seeking unit when you are not even seeking it so there is meeting the opposition not it because it's us no we have refused this and that ask any of these people if there's any condition or any requests we have objected to some of them have even have even asked us to put up a written proposal we have put those proposals and we have remained confidential about it we size them they have never come to so we have done the best that we can we are not seeking to support anybody if you want us just to say go and support that one then direct us but if that is the case then we have to have an extraordinary Congress because we don't have that mandate just to support anybody what we have is an alliance working with others sitting down agreeing even how the government will function after that you win the elections what is in it for the Zambian it's not about just the leaders sharing positions. No we are not interested in that our principal interest our strategic objective is what the Zambian people get out of dispensation it's not us getting positions have been involved in the political life of this country of this region since 1978 there was a caller who was talking about the MMD for you maybe you might have heard what happened at the MMD Garden Conference and thereafter I was there I was one of the participants I'm one of the people who registered the MMD as a political party in December 1990 my name is there I was a participant even at the first I was there the unit that you are talking you are talking about it didn't come by itself we forged it we worked for it I had to convince one of my best friends is late now to step down as vice president by vice presidential candidate and levy he objected he says I'm not I'm not stopping I'm not backing down but you go and support Levi if that's your choice I asked him are you going to take it again he said no we worked the whole day to try and undo what we did and levy one imaginary after levy one I took that friend of mine who stood against Levy together with another this another person who is also late who stood against Levi I took them to Ndola to Levy's house we got there on a Friday to unite them I did that and I can mention this was Christian Tembo and Bordwin in Kumbula I took them to Maureen was there so this for us we didn't join the politics of this country to become presidents or to become ministers would have been ministers would have been this and that a long time ago and it's not only this country in which we participated we participated in the liberations of other countries as well where we don't live and we have gotten nothing other than the good relationship we hold with the people of those countries so it's not about positions.

SPEAKER_17 2:05:16

Even in now all those if you want meeting of all these people you are mentioning call a meeting for unity we will come and you hear it you all you say here what our position is you hear who wants unity and who doesn't want unity take the initiative call us call all those people you are mentioning who you wanted to unite call us to a meeting at your house wherever you may be who come at least for us who come indeed indeed that's clear commitment that's very very clear yeah very very clear commitment to to to opposition unity and I'm glad that you have pursued these matters without even cameras in many cases I think you've put your thoughts very clear let me hand over uh the microphone to Honorable Dolika Banda on the late president I think people could have misunderstood you just explain your thoughts about it and and I want to be very clear that I am extremely unhappy that as Zambians we have been put in a situation where we have to debate a former head of head of state I said in my comments it could be Odi but it happens to be our former head of state I think I used the expression so for those who misunderstood me I do not take this lightly I do not what I was going to convey to people is that it's been going on for too long it's been going on for too long it is a shadow over this country nothing will go right for this country until that man I said it again earlier is put to rest his soul is in limbo we cannot expect the country to be at peace when I use the expression contra natura it's against nature it's against our tradition and we shouldn't talk about this now.

SPEAKER_12 2:08:06

But we still are I'm not happy about it. For people who think I said it's unimportant or I take it lightly it's a misunderstanding get it very correct I think of this situation as I think of my own father. Were it my own father would I be happy that we are where we are today and the answer is no the answer is no so I hope that clarifies but I want it also to be very clear that we should not we should not allow ourselves to forget the other issues that are sitting at the table for the rest of the generation to come who are still living and are to live their lives we must debate those issues we must focus on those issues that was what I meant to say I hope that clarifies to the viewers.

SPEAKER_17 2:09:10

Clear clear I think we got you correctly and I'm glad that you've amplified on the matters my last question as we close to both of you is Zambia able to hold a democratic, credible, transparent and free and fair elections? Are you going to participate in this process with all these matters that have been highlighted the passing of Bill 7, the new electoral process bill that is before parliament that seems to disenfranchise and giving powers to ECZ and the registrar of societies instead of the courts and the determination by this government to attempt to bar certain candidates either can pick up maybe let's start with Dolica then we end with the president I think when you have a situation in a country where the people are pleading pleading for opposition to unite and select one person it means that our democracy is at risk our democracy is at risk and democracy at risk means a free and fair election a transparent and open election is at risk.

SPEAKER_12 2:10:34

So I am not confident cannot say to the Zambian people today standing where I am standing that I believe this election in 2026 is going to be a free and fair election. We have been known for as a beacon of democracy in this country and in this region a beacon of peaceful handover from one administration to the next these are things that we have put now at the at the helm of ridicule quite frankly maybe outsiders think it will be a free and fair election I do not when people are gagged when people are threatened not to speak when people are afraid to say anything because you have blurred the lines between executive legislature judiciary you cannot tell that that is going to be a free and fair election. However that does not mean that as an active citizen as a proud Zambian as a hopeful Zambian who believes in this country I am not going to give it my all we are not going to give it our all so we will we will fair or not or not we will push through that August 13th date thank you very much Dr.

SPEAKER_17 2:12:02

It is very clear with the cyber laws, you know, uh with the restricted democratic media and civic space, you highlighted that you've not even been allowed to hold any uh you know political process, any public rally to appeal to recruit members and speak to Zambians. And we literally have tyranny in place, as Dolika Banda stated, where there's a bloodline between the legislator and the judiciary and the executive, and they all seem to be controlled by one person. And international bodies have all highlighted the extent to which we've sunk away from a democratic path. Just pick to pick your thoughts as we go to this election.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:48

The preparation for the next election of one election. The preparations for the 2026 elections started at the end of the 2021 August elections, 11th August election. Look at what has transpired between the last election and today. If it does create an atmosphere for holding free and fair elections, there were twenty-two observations made by the EU observation mission. Twenty-two. And they emphasized six of them as being very cardinal. They brought those observations to the Zambian government of Mr. Kindle Hichrema. There was agreement on the part of Mr. Hitleman to address those issues. It was easy at that time because they believed those were problems of PF that was outgoing. None of those 22 observations have been made to date. One of them was the repeal of the public order act or the main public order act. Nothing has been done. Nothing. We asked them these issues. They agreed with us that nothing has been done. So we asked them, we are coming again in August this year to observe elections. When the issues you raised in the last objective have not been met, despite the promise to do so. Expect the president to be free again. I've already pointed out the freedom of assembly, the freedom of expression in issues. It's possible to run parties in these five years in the UPND government. Even if your word structures cannot have a meeting. They stopped over on their way to Ruwingo in wanted to have it with the word leadership to find out where how things were going. They were arrested there. SP they are having meet a meeting here. And they spent a night in sales. After paying, I don't know if it was 100 quads or what. That has been the order. I've already told you we have applied 34 times to hold we have never been given any opportunity. We are going into these elections, spending five years without addressing the people of this country. The only little opportunity had to campaign is where there's a by-election. That's the only little opportunity. Even there, we were still being attacked by UPND guard leaders. Our vehicles destroyed. Our guard is chargeable of destroyed vehicles. We have reported these matters to the police. The police has never had a single arrest. The people are being arrested, it's our own cadres, including myself. Trying to defend ourselves. My answer is a categorical no. Are we going to participate? Yes, we're going to participate. What options do we have? What are the consequences of boycotting these elections? Even in soccer, they don't run soccer that way. You have 70-something laws being passed just before the tournament. Because the rules are just one week. So even World Cup, it's four years. Preparations for the next World Cup start immediately, the other World Cup finishes. You are allowed to have friendries, you are allowed to change this and that nationalities of players can be arranged or changed under that four-year period. What Mr Hichelema and the UPN are doing make it impossible to have free and fair elections. We wonder if even peaceful elections can be held under these conditions. So what we are going to have on the 13th of August are sham elections. Sham elections.

SPEAKER_17 2:19:41

That's what we're indeed, indeed. Sham elections. Sham elections. Thank you very much. I'd like to thank Dr. Fred Membe and Dolika Banda for coming to this show. And we spent almost two and a half hours together discussing various national issues from the 74 bills before parliament. Just a few weeks before we are filing, you know, nominations. You have 74 bills that have to be passed. You have uh members of parliament that have crossed floors and they are not even being removed from parliament. We discussed everything from the cancellation of the rights conference, one of the biggest international conferences. We discussed the matter affecting Zambia's sixth president, Dr. Edgar Chagua Lungu. We've discussed various issues, including this particular matter, whether Zambia is able to hold democratic, credible, free and fair elections. For all the callers today, I know you keep on calling. Thank you so much. You can keep on commenting on the comments below. We were hosting two people, so we had to accommodate them and to ensure that we get their thoughts. Because you know, there's a likelihood of misunderstanding if you cut them very short. Just look at that question on ECL, how it nearly spiraled out of control when actually Honorable Dorica Banda was very clear in her thoughts. So that is the purpose. So don't feel crowded out. I know it is your show, but you can still go down and make comments. Mr. President and Dorica Banda, thank you very much. We wish you well in your endeavor. And I love the passion you demonstrated to work for our country. That should be the agenda. And everyone should be aligned around the cause of our country, not the cause of personalities or the cause of positions, but the cause of our country. To our dear viewers, until we have another set of guests, thank you very much and God bless you.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:37

Maka mana yaikoti chasu Africa. Nokutina. Now pushing in Kishia. What were the putti? Why did you shika away as you could have South Africa? Whyana Makotia? And I landed Makoti. Chava kuya so y lava poxa. Lika no kupucia indu Yakuma coti no kuchampa ukulanda Alechalo Chashikuwa Papula. Uhil e chitoa whichumbi chamu. What womanele in Moyaku take a chalo chesuita waterwa no kuchita ifia chishinka? Elio matu. How could we call a chalo? Naturally no take over snow yas. Look, I couldn't.

SPEAKER_00 2:25:15

We want the chest. We want the chess. We want the chess.