HOSTING MAKEBI ZULU ON RESOLUTE PARTY

LIVE NOW;We host PF-PAMODZI ALLIANCE Leader Hon. Makebi Zulu and the decision of the Alliance to pick Resolute Party as Special Purpose Vehicle 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:53

immediately after the dissolution of a member of the budgetable members the responses from the members who were the subject of the point of order by Mr. JP Sangha Member of Parliament for local constituents and in the absence of any evidence from Mr. JP Sangha MP to support this point of order on the point of order by Mr. J Sangha MP is that the six members of parliament in order as they have not approved with the constitution and continue to expect members of points of what the principal doctor and the Mickey MP and Mr Bonto MP Principal the Office of Department not received any response from Mr Brand Mundo in the MP Mr Mr George Kisanga MP and Mr Stephen Kamp and one of the promous F Mono MP accordingly in the absence of responses from the members constraint I'm constrained from making a conclusion as to whether these members were alleged to have crossed the floor who were alleged to have crossed the floor did in fact the two points of order by Dr MP and Mr Pimp to MP respectively but it's one of the Month by each one of the physics upon which to article in this regard the necessary steps have been taken to ensure that Mr Katotovi does not participate in the conduct of the business of the house for the remainder of this meeting.

SPEAKER_12 5:01

Honorable members let me take this opportunity to guide the House as I have done on numerous occasions that when a member wishes to raise a point of order founded on an allegation of fact that member is required to let Sunday 10th May 2026 today we are hosting Honorable Makebizolu PF Pamosi alliance president and uh you know they've picked a special purpose vehicle in resolute party in which the alliance will participate in elections the the PF I think has now experienced on picking special purpose vehicles remember they picked uh NCP a national congress party of uh Pastor Peter Chanda in Petauke and won that seat they picked FDD in Chawama and won that seat and they picked FDD in Kasama mayor elections and they nearly won that elections. So we've brought in Honorable Makebizulu to come and explain to us what's happening to the patriotic front remember the last time we're supposed to host him we then had the tragedy where the body of the late president was stolen and we had to abandon that uh uh uh uh discussion and deal with the emergency that had risen that was two weeks ago and now I've honorable makebi zulu with me and he's going to join me as we discuss various issues honorable makebezulu welcome to today's broadcast thanks ambassador and uh happy Sunday to you happy mother's day to all the mothers out there as well wonderful I saw a picture of you and your mother she looks like your sister she's quite young well she has kept herself very well and uh she's still very very energetic I I I love I love my mother very much and one thing I keep talking about is um uh how that in my formative years when I was young I woke up in the middle of the night I think I must have been in grade three or so I woke up in the middle of the night uh of course uh for for for the visitation to to the peer room then what we called it then I heard uh some someone uh whispering something somewhere in the sitting room I went there and uh only to notice that it was actually my mother who was praying in the dark well there was no power then we didn't have electricity in the house at that time and uh when I paid attention she was there I heard her praying for me and uh that is a moment that really changed my life knowing that there's there's there's someone out there who's praying for me and to this day I know she is still praying for me and I would like to wish her a happy mother's day on this your program Ambassador thank you so much wonderful no indeed happy auspicious Mother's Day to law our mothers all our sisters all our wives whoever you know is a woman whoever and also happy mother's day to many men that you know would act the role of a mother and both mothers and fathers yeah no thank you i i saw you were at church and you their church a dramatic story merged by Bishop uh Sakala um he said the two of you uh two alliances Honorable uh you Makebizulum and that of Honorable Brian Munduwile are talking I think that immediately caught the attention of the church and all of us that were watching the broadcast because on this forum all the callers push all of you that you should work together let's start with that issue of the alliances and working together in the opposition uh that that is nothing new to us because on every program uh ambassador that I've appeared on I have always size the aspect of unity the aspect of us uniting as um as as an opposition from the time we were having our intra-party elections to this particular moment we still sing the same song as to how best we can work together how how best we can unite around uh the the the the salvation of Zambia that is what has been important you may recall that uh the time we were deciding to say let's pick a flag bearer as the Patriotic Front uh party someone that is going to lead us into the next election we had uh nine to eleven candidates that showed interest uh to be able to to lead the party having done so of course there were a lot of it were coming in between postponements and uh things of that sort that that that came in the way until eventually uh we decided listen we need to go ahead we need to move on because we can't keep hoping that the courts are going to act on time and give us back the Patriotic Front Party.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

In the meantime there are machinations and moves to stop us from using the name Patriotic Front Party. Why don't we then have a process that we're going to use to pick a leader amongst ourselves and then that leader will lead the party who lead the party and the structures and will be able to pick a special purpose vehicle my my my colleague Honorable Mundubile was one of those people and you were one of the people that participated in that Honorable Given Lubinda Honorable Mao Sampa Honorable were participated in that process. But along the way we saw that others went out my brother Honorable Mundubile went out uh you withdrew from the race withdrew a lean number remained and we said we are going to move and um uh uh as President Lubinda had put it we agreed that listen let us pick a leader from amongst ourselves using a process that will carry the structures along if they give us the Patriotic Front party we will go and um run on the patriotic front uh party ticket if not we are going to use a special purpose vehicle this is not alien uh the use of a special purpose vehicle it's not alien because remember when it came to the the the the by-election in Petaoke we used NCP we used uh FTD in in in uh Kasama in Wapula we used uh NCP and we used FTD as well as special purposes vehicle but never at any of this point did we uh uh say that it we no longer cease to exist as this group in the code itself the Patriotic Fund Party and obviously we knew that we were all going to act in a noble way we're all going to act with uh integrity we're all going to have a sense of morality as we're going through this uh this process eventually the process ended and um I was elected uh to lead this uh this grouping and we were to work towards participating in these elections to come and uh I have not come to be able to address the the the the media to address the nation to address uh the concerns or the happenings around the party uh as yet and I have this opportunity to do so now uh thanks uh to you but uh what may have been underlying this the the the public and everybody wish to know is that it was not a desire to project it as the vanquished and someone who has won because we understood it or well should I say I understood it as a process where we mutually came together to pick someone who was going to lead all of us now in every contestation of some sort there are heartbreaks there are disappointments and there can only be one winner. But how this particular winner takes control is also very important. So it's been a period of engagement trying to talk to to build unity within the party and also build unity with those that are outside the party you've seen me having engagements with those in the party you've seen me having engagements with those outside the party the likes of uh uh uh the likes of my older brother KBF you have seen all those engagements and uh this engagement with uh my brother Brian Mundile is nothing new but something that is working towards us coming together and having a united force to be able to emancipate Zambia from the dolrums that it has been subjected to from what President Hakaindechilema has said of this country. There are a lot of things that are of concern but these things have to be approached with a united front the people of Zambia have called on Zambians on the opposition to unite. The church has called on the opposition to unite the civil society the chiefs have called us to unite they've sat us down they've spoken to us and we said we can't be so stiff necked in the in the idea of not coming together. We have to look at what the common purpose is and that is the emancipation of Zambia. And we've made it abundantly clear I have appeared on many a fora and I have stated that it is important that we build a united force. It is not about takes up the top position or the second position or any other position for that matter. It is about what is going to be the winning formula towards emancipating Zambia.

SPEAKER_12 15:37

And in all the discussions that we've had uh with my colleagues uh I have made it abundantly clear that I do not have to be uh at the top of it uh they do not have to be at the top of it look at what is going to gain us more votes what is going to gain us to be a a force that has to uh that that has to go into this election and compel or at least be inspiration enough for people to come through and uh uh and and vote so we have been having discussions and at this point I can confirm that we have opened up discussions with uh my brother uh Brian uh Munduwile we are yet to conclude we are still engaging as late as today uh I I I did reach out to my brother to see if we can uh uh uh further our discussions uh or at least have an appointment where we are going to sit down and see how best we can uh respond to the call by uh by the by the Zambians we have met we have met a couple of times um in the in the in the last uh so and we will continue engaging yeah as we go towards uh towards uh the nominations and we are very hopeful that we will make something that will make every Zambian proud to see uh unity and this is not just with uh honorable Brian Mondurille we're talking to everyone that is in the opposition and this I'll repeat this clarin call let's all come together and let's uh put our personal ambitions aside and uh look at what is in the greater interest of the country that is leadership and uh as it should be and that is leadership as it is known yes thank you and um you are right you have not really addressed the nation since your election and uh of course there have been these intervening very urgent matters that took away your attention let's come to the patriotic front it appears in disarray disintegrated their factions Robert Chabinga Mao Sampa and then of course the grouping led by you and our people are confused where is the PF this in this where is a PF that was founded by Michael Sata led by Edgar Lungu led by acting president Given Lubinda where where is that PF what would be your answer to that and what are you doing in light of this um uh apparent disintegration to put first the leaders together and the party together so uh we must differentiate between dealing with personal issues issues of personal character and issues to do with the party as it were everybody knows where the true patriotic front party is at the time there was that movement by our brother Mao Sampa when he held his convention of the 24th of October 2023 and purported to change the names at um registrar of societies everybody knew that that was a sham election everybody knew that uh uh Mao Sampa was not the president of the Patriotic Front Party and they knew where the Patriotic Front Party was every one of us who was with uh President Edgar Chagwalungu we looked at ourselves to be on the right side and that is where the Patriotic Front Party is and that is the Patriotic Front Party that has been winning all these elections that we've been having using special purpose vehicles.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Even when uh uh our brother Mao Sampa himself uh uh when a first one was pulled on him and Chavinga took over everybody knew where the patriotic front party was and uh it is for that reason that you saw Mao Sampa saying I have come back to the ford he knew that he had gone wrong and at that press briefing he made it known to the world that this is where the Patriotic Front Party where Edgar Chagualungu was is where the patriotic front party was and that is the true patriotic front party as it is and today we know that the true patriotic front party is being led by Makebizulu because we know that all the structures that we had under the PF uh the uh whose whose whose whose papers were were were stolen whose documentation moved to others who command no uh uh no no respect from our structures who have no authority over our structures who can't even hold a meeting uh with our structures are holding on to the to the papers um yeah of the of the PF of course there have been these issues the back and forth and it is quite alarming right now that uh we can go back to default settings to try and make true that which isn't and assume it was it shouldn't be like that morality will not will not allow you to do that uh it is it it it is it is wrong every Zambian knows it is wrong we can't pursue power in a corrupt manner and want people to believe that blue is green when it actually isn't we have to be truthful we have to be forthright and say listen we were wrong at some point we did everything wrong and now we have to get bored this personal interest of trying to factionalize the PF is only weighing down on character individuals we are where we are because of character flaws and not anything to do with principle. If we had principle uh principled leadership as it were in the conduct or in our behavior we wouldn't even be having what we are seeing today. We wouldn't even be saying their factions if we are going to be forthright and coid for what it is we need Know that we have detractors and then we have the real PF. And that real PF is now being led by myself, and we have picked the resolute party as our special purpose vehicle that we intend to use in this coming election. That is where the true PF is.

SPEAKER_12 22:18

I saw assertions by um, especially online media, that alleged that you had defected from the patriotic front and you had gone to the resolute party. Just explain that particular part, especially to your members who appeared confused when I think those reports were made.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

See, what we had agreed, we had a central committee meeting uh where we had agreed that we are going to move in this manner for purposes of the election. And that is why everybody, every Zambian now is able to say, What vehicle are you using? The reason it's being called a vehicle is because everybody has gotten to understand that there are circumstances that do not allow us to use the Patriotic Front Party. But we need to go with a party for purposes of cohesion, for purposes of uh uh fostering unity, we need to be held together by some glue of some sort. And that glue that we have chosen to go by is the resolute party. This has been a process that has undergone uh uh uh uh uh uh confirmation by the central committee meeting. Uh our council of elders in the party was tasked to look amongst the political parties that were available and uh be able to choose or which would be best suited. And that the resolute party is one uh such party that was proposed by the council of elders. This process, remember, began even before I took over the reins of leadership. That that that's where the process started from. It is a process that uh was was was inherited, and the party needs to remain alive, the party needs to go on ahead. But even with that, what we have said is that whatever commotion, whatever thing may have been caused in between, or is forgiven, let's come back together, let's work together, let's salvage Zambia before we go into deeper daughrums of uncertainty, of tyranny, of tribalism, of regionalism, of all things not right. Before we can get into uh into those extremes, let us salvage the situation. And we can only do so together. And that is uh our call. A call for unity, a call for realization of the direction that we want to take the party to, a call for selflessness in this approach, and a call for introspection as to what the Zambians really want. Posterity is going to judge us harshly if we don't work together in the manner that Zambians want us to. They know what they don't want. They know that the UPND has failed. They don't even want us to be talking about the UPND. They are saying, you are our hope. Come together, let us know what you're going to do for us. Whatever the case, uh, we know that you you would certainly be better than uh the UPND. You've been there, you've been tested, you had your errors, we hope you've worked on your on your errors, and we are willing to trust you again to with the reins of power. But only come together, and you will help us make a decision to choose you. That is what every Zambian is saying.

SPEAKER_12 25:43

This brings me to this question. Clearly, there is utter rejection of the UPND. Uh, but Zambians are losing hope that even this late hour the opposition have not come together, the leadership still uh uh uh pursuing both party and personal ambitions. Here we have over 27 candidates that have paid, and I've only seen one withdrawal. Um, this doesn't seem to give hope to Zambians who hoped that you'd come together. And brings me to these questions. You have stated that you've had talks with from John Sangwa to Honorable Hari Kalawa to KBF, um maybe to Socialist Party. I don't know if you have spoken, and now you are engaging with uh Bran Mundu William. What has been difficult to come together?

SPEAKER_01 26:45

See, I must say that no door is closed. The conversations are still going on in the background. We are talking to everyone, and everyone is talking to everyone for purposes of coming together. This approach approach is not that should be made light of. The desire to ensure that they choose who the opposition is going to be. You've seen how that they've interfered with the Office of the Registrar of Societies. That is there for everyone to see. And we know that the the the the targeting of political parties, this desire to send in revivation, the opposition is very high. Look at what is happening to Cason de Mwenda. Cason de Mwenda is taken in merely for saying that the president may have lost his way in Chin Sali. Now that that becomes a case. That becomes a case where someone is being put in custody for so long a time without charge, and the opposition is there. Now, that same comment that was made by Cason de Mwenda, if it had been made by, say, any other person, would that person have been taken in? I think not. I think this is a clamp down on the opposition. And in the approach that we are taking, in this approach where over 20 uh have uh have at least expressed interest, we need to now start cutting down or at least coming down to the reasonable numbers that we desire to be. Because we know that even amongst these that have expressed interest, there are those that are projects of the of the ruling party. We know that there are those that I call them projects because they sympathize with the cause of the ruling party. It's not a desire at all to change uh government or indeed to come and save the the Zambian people better. The real position is known. The numbers are very lean, and I'm very certain that eventually these lean numbers will manifest because these processes that we're going through are going to vent out, uh to vot out, and obviously, I foresee a place where there may be resolution as to how we're going to approach. But we can't necessarily approach this uh election blindly. We need to be tactical in the manner we're going to approach it, we need to to be resolute as we are a resolute party, resolute in the manner that we are going to approach this uh this election, to be able to tell the Zambian people, or at least where we can tell them, we should be able to be strategic in our approach. How are we going to ensure that ECZ is not going to bring extra rules apart from those that are brought in by the constitution? Because we've seen this insatiable desire where rules that are alien to the constitution are being introduced using subsidiary legislation. If the constitution is going to give us, or as it has done, uh, what are the qualifications for a person standing as a presidential candidate? You can't, by subsidiary legislation, add more or subtract from what the constitution has said. It has to be in line with what the constitution has said. But we have seen moves by the government using the ECZ, trying to introduce new new requirements for purposes of uh qualification for nominations or indeed participation in the in the election. These are things that we should frown upon as Zambians. These are things that we should speak loudly against. If we can't go to court and challenge this because we think the courts are compromised, let us speak loudly when we when we go to the ballot and vote. Let us speak loudly. And we must uh this this government must know that the Zambians are resolved that they should go. Whether they are going to take KBF out, whether they're going to take um uh my brother Hari Kalaba out, whether they're going to take whether they're going to take Mundubile out or myself out, we should be able to say we are going to rally behind a particular candidate for purposes of emancipation of Zambia. Because we can't be living in such an environment where success is punished, where where where promotions uh or the civil service is at its worst in terms of cohesion, um cohesion in the civil service, everyone is disgruntled, everyone is complaining, but we're being told of graphs and numbers that don't really translate into better human life, uh better living standards for our people. We uh have to get back to the drawing board. What is going to be good for the Zambian who is at home? That Zambian who's taking children to school, that Zambian who has to put food on the table, have they eaten? That Zambian who is running a barber shop? Have they only been given power because we're going towards an election? Uh that Zambian who says they want to benefit through the processes of government in terms of supply to the government, are those going to continue being given to a preferred view uh few? Are we going to have business for uh a select few, those that are related or indeed connected to those that are in government? Are we going to disqualify Zambians merely because they are seen to affiliate to uh a particular opposition, a particular or belong to a particular region? Are we going to have to continue with that? All those are things that we have to take into consideration and emancipate Zambia before we degenerate into something worse. Everybody knows that we can't have another five years with the UPND. It is for that reason that all those selfish ambitions that uh that that that we may we may have, we must be able to subject them to a scale of what weighs more. The interest of the country indeed the interests of individuals. It is for that reason that having put all these on the table, we said, let us talk, let us weigh our our interests and see to it that the interest of every Zambian is put first.

SPEAKER_12 33:41

We will transition to issues affecting the country and we'll start with the matter of is it possible for Zambia to hold democratic, credible, transparent, free and fair elections in light of what has happened with Bill 7. And now we have the electoral process bill that has just passed second reading, and I'm told it's supposed to pass today as law. We have appointments that are being made and ratified. We have 77 bills that have to go through in the next few days, and they are dramatically changing the state of our country. Then the threats which we have heard which we've heard from ECZ that uh they want certain guidelines around the regional societies for candidates that will participate in elections. Let's come back to that and I would invite questions for you to to to to answer. Honorable Makebizulu, is it possible for Zambia to hold um democratic, credible, transparent, free and fair elections?

SPEAKER_01 35:12

See, you ask a very important question. And the question that I would like to pose to the government and to President Hakande Chlema and everyone at ECZ: Is it possible for you to subvert the will of the people? Is it possible for you to decide for and on behalf of the Zambians as to what exactly they want? The very rules that have existed are the ones that brought the UPND into power. To change rules, to think you can legislate the will of the people is a miss in itself. Now, to address the question that you ask, is it possible to have a credible election in Zambia? It is possible to have a credible election in Zambia. It is possible because the Zambians themselves will form an opinion of what credibility is. No matter how much you may legislate or choose to disenfranchise certain individuals, at the end of the day, they have to make a decision. They have to make a decision whether they have to continue with the kind of National Assembly that we have, which is an embarrassment in the region. They have to make a decision whether they'll have to continue with a judiciary that is seemingly openly compromised. They have to make a decision whether they want a government that meddles in the affairs of the institutions of governance. They have to make a decision whether they want a civil service that is so polarized. What Zambians are asking for are civil service reforms. They want reforms in the police, they want a fair way of employing people in government. They want to see that the this rule of law and they are not being stifled into silence. You can't now say that the Cybersecurity Act, which you have enhanced in its uh unreasonableness to be good law merely because it shuts people up. Those people you think you have shut up are speaking at their kitchen tables. And as we speak at our kitchen tables, we have already decided that the UPND must go. These are necessary voices that any open government, any democratic government should be able to sit back and say, What are the people saying? What do the Zambian people want? And if they ask themselves those genuine questions, then their governance style is going to change. They'll respect the rule of law, they respect the freedoms of Zambians, they'll respect the very people that put them there, and they should be able to work with trust to say if we are going to do the right thing, we trust that the Zambians will bring us back. The moment you try to change the rules to fit your situation, then that's an admission that you have failed in the area of governance. You have failed to deliver on the promises that you said you would deliver to the Zambian people. And now you want to subvert their will to suit your circumstances. That is not the Zambia we know. That is not how Zambians work. It may work in other countries where rules or anything are changed to suit the circumstances of the leader that is there. But for Zambia, we know that when Zambians come together and make a decision for change, that change must come. That decision has been made by Zambians. There is no time to rectify the wrongs that the UPND have done. And now Zambians are saying we are resolved, we are resolute in the manner that we're going to approach this uh this uh this election. And perhaps the resolute party is the way to go, perhaps the uh a united opposition is the way to go, and Zambians are saying, give us a leader in a united front, and we will give you the vote. And that is the call that we're responding to right now. We urge those citizens at ECZ, Zambia is beyond you. Zambia is beyond your personal needs, Zambia is beyond your holding of those positions. Give the Zambians a free and fair election. President Haka Indechilema, you have an obligation to give the Zambians a free and fair election. After all, they're the ones who are paying for it. It is their money that is going into this election. They are the ones that gave you the mandate to say, let's see what you can do in these five years. And uh, if you do not work in accordance with this agreement we call uh your manifesto, we have a right and power under our constitution to say, there is a door, let's bring in another person. Let us not have posterity judge you harshly for making decisions that are personal and not national in nature.

SPEAKER_12 40:27

The happenings at parliament have alarmed all stakeholders. You have members of parliament, most of them belonging to the patriotic front, that have formally announced that have defected to the UPND. And uh the speaker today ruled. I played the video earlier, that there's no evidence that those members of parliament defected to the UPND. Clearly, this um is an attack on justice. You are a constitutional lawyer, and I'm asking you in that capacity. Is a speaker right? Can we allow this, you know, the abuse of the National Assembly? You have members who have defected, crossed floors, and in accordance with our constitution, they've broken the law. They cannot sit in parliament and pass these 77 new laws, collect allowances, and still purport that, you know, they are legitimately there. I don't know what your thoughts are in light of the announcement that has been made by the president, by the speaker.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

That's a that's a circus. I listened to that that particular ruling, that indeed is a circus. And that's that is why we're saying that we need to build strong institutions that are not dependent on individuals. Because what has been seen is an erosion of integrity, an erosion of morality. Even members of parliament, how do you, as a member of parliament, say you have defected to the ruling party and the next day you show up in parliament? I must commend uh Honorable Katotowe for the decision that he made because he knows the consequences of abrogating the very constitution that we have given to ourselves. Now, this is a constitutional breach that we are looking at. It is not for the UPND, or indeed the speaker, to enhance or to look at what serves the interest of the UPND in this case. It is what does the law say? What have we chosen to be the our governing rules? When a person crosses the floor, what do we do in those uh in those circumstances? You can't say there is no evidence. When there's uh the the the it's in public domain, there are certain things that are a notorious fact, certain things that to take uh cognizance of. Uh the we in law we say you take judicial notice of certain circumstances. You can't necessarily say that I am not aware, or indeed it has not been brought to my attention. When it is in the public domain, it has uh it has an effect on the integrity of the person that is making that decision, and also the integrity of the of the persons that are involved in those acts. Did they call them? Did they answer to that question? Did they uh watch the video? The speaker does uh uh claim that she she she stays in Jupiter or Mars every day, goes and comes back and doesn't know what is going on around. Uh but even then, when a point of order is raised in that particular manner and there is need for further evidence, go for it if you think there is need for further evidence. But have these people said no? Of course they haven't said no. We have had strange rulings from this particular speaker, and all rulings that have been strange in this nature are those that. Skewered are skewed towards supporting the ruling party. That's what it's been. You saw how that this very speaker was dancing against the decorum of the house when Bill 7 was passed. Is that what you expect of a speaker? Is that what you expect a speaker to be doing? Where a question is asked to the executive and the executive doesn't answer is the speaker who's answering that question? Is that the kind of parliament you want for yet another five years? The kind of parliament that changes rules to be able to remove a member of parliament who has been elected by the people? How are you going to have such rules? You dream up of rules where absenteeism now calls for removal from the house when the punishment is only 30 days without pay. Because this government has shown in more ways than many that they're incapable of upholding the constitution. They want institutions to banter or to to sink to what they want. They want the the the law to save them, to save their purpose. Oh, because I'm keeping cows, I'll make the idea of stock theft non-vailable. Because you are personally affected by that. It shouldn't be like that. It should be what is in the interest of the Zambian people. What is in accordance with the law. That's the kind of responsible government that we require. And this government has failed that test. This National Assembly has failed that test. The judiciary has failed that test. The executive has failed that test. We need overhaul. You have the office of the of the of the ombudsman, uh, now referred to as a public protector, which is redundant. We need a government that is going to make functional the office of the public protector so that the public knows uh where to run to when things of this sort are happening. These officials in government are being should be made to account. We need that accounting system because without accountability, then the aspect of responsibility is vitiated. We we can't have a responsible government that is when there's no accountability. And this is one example of an irresponsible government. And this election should be a determinant of where Zambia must go. Indeed, we're at a crossroads and decisions have to be made. The Bible says multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision. For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. And indeed, we are this multitude as Zambians in this valley of decisions, and we have to make that decision so that the will of the Zambian people and the will of God be done in this country.

SPEAKER_12 47:09

Yeah, the speaker I saw wanted to conflate two issues as if to make it uh fair. He read, uh she read uh a point of order regarding those that have joined the Tonsei Alliance, the MPs. I think there is a clear difference between members that have joined an alliance and those that have defected to the UPND. Uh, let me just read these that made or participated in a public process that showed that they had crossed the floor. Sande Chanda of Kanchvia, Davison Mungandu. In fact, I might have some of their pictures. Davison Mungandu of Chama South, Marjorie Nakaponda, Jonathan Dakam, Robert Chavinga Mafinga, Levan Chwombe, Bahati, Anton Mumba. I might even have a picture of Anton Mumba here. Let me look for it. Here he held uh he was received just the other day uh from Kantan Mishek Nyambose. I've got a picture of him as well. Sydney Mushanga was actually received by Cordelia Sumwetwa. We have Andrew Zindlu Lubusha, he started a long time and declared was UPND, and he wears uh UPND regalia everywhere. Uh we have uh Swongi Lemwamba, my dear sister from Kasama, Taulo Chewe from Lubansenge, Michael Zondani Katambo of Masahiti, we have Daniel Mwanza Kaumbu, Elas Dakam Sanzala, and the pictures and evidence is there that they've crossed the floor, they've participated in a process where they've been received, they've warned Patti Regalia. What is crossing the floor? Why is the speaker saying there's no evidence? We even have a video of the president. Let me play it briefly, where the president was receiving these defectors, including some mayors.

SPEAKER_27 49:17

We welcome Kitwe Member, Chipotle Member, Lundazi Council Chairperson. We welcome the councillors and other civic leaders. We welcome MPs, MP Chibo, Rome and everybody across the country. We have received the members joining European building, every door in all the two provinces of Zambia, Alam, Machi Diva, Natudiva, Zambana, Honorable Makebizolu.

SPEAKER_12 49:55

The speaker says she doesn't have evidence, and that researcher says there is no evidence, and the MP is denied. In that speech, the president has even named people, including the Ron Member of Parliament who has joined the UPND.

SPEAKER_01 50:11

That is blatant disrespect of the question. The president, in no uncertain terms, named individuals and said they had joined the UPND. What is the legal implication of that? Our constitution says if you were voted for on a particular ticket and you choose what's a member of parliament to join another party, you lose your seat. And uh if you are an independent uh member of parliament, be having been voted for as an independent member of parliament, you choose to join uh a political party. During the subsistence of your term in office, you cease to be a member of parliament. That is a law so clear. Uh just that the research team and everybody else never came across this is is is listening. Oh in uh yeah. Only three days left. Why not even say they've lost their seats? There will not be any buy-in. But because there's this insatiable appetite to show that there was participants are the who if you p and to in in coming up with these laws that they are churning out every day as if it's you you you you possibly understand to say, okay, just just let them go. But there's this this appetite to to to churn out these uh these these laws in a very fast way, without uh deep reflection and consideration and participation of uh stakeholders. They want to pass these laws. That is the only explanation you can give to this. Otherwise, the this speaker went amiss. Uh, whatever that ruling was, it's not even worth the paper that it's it's written on. It has no legal reasoning uh to it whatsoever. You can't even waste time to try and go and challenge it because time is gone now. But perhaps for posterity, it is important that such matters should be taken up and hope that the the judiciary will for once do what is right, will for once uh uh consider what the rule of law is uh and the importance thereof to this to this country. We hope that we can have a system that will be changed. We need an overhaul. We need a serious cleanup for purposes of putting our country back on the right track. And it will take a lot. It will take every Zambian to wake up that day to go and vote. And it will take every Zambian to be resolved in the approach that they are going to take. As we are resolved as a resolute party to say we are resolute that Zambia needs a new course, Zambia needs a new direction, Zambia needs new leadership that will put the people first, that will put the interests of the Zambians first, that will look to put more money in people's pockets and not in the individuals that are leading the government. We have to be resolved in that regard. Not the security we are witnessing at the National Assembly.

SPEAKER_12 53:22

There's a matter of concern. The ECZ announcement when they produced a calendar for all of you that have paid, when you should present the 1,000 supporters. They put a notice and a note that alarmed the country that the adoption certificates must be signed by both the president and secretary general of the sponsoring political party, as reflected in the records of the registrar of societies. Why did the country worry? Because we've been aware that the registrar of societies has been hijacked and uh certain things, for example, the PF have been affected where people that didn't go through any legal or due process are sitting as office bearers on the register. We understand, for example, the FDD, they've refused to update the records after the FDD held its convention. We've seen uh Savoy Imboyler affected where uh strangers have come and held the general conference and the records have been updated against our records. We've seen our brother Sebastian Copeland, where a faction holds a conference and they displace him from the records. We've seen UNIP Trevor Mwamba, a faction again inside the party, you know, amend the records at registral societies. Aren't you worried? And I personally am concerned that uh maybe you, the opposition, are not doing enough to counter what both the state and in particular is happening at registral society and the ECZ. Are we going to allow candidates just to be disenfranchised like that? I don't know what your thoughts are. This is as a collective as the the opposition should be.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

We this this problem began the moment we allowed the uh KwaCha and Kabushi constituency by election to go in the manner that they went. Where ECZ becomes a law unto themselves, introduces new rules and author uh and regulations as to how uh the election should be conducted, who qualifies to be a candidate, away from what the law provides. That is what the the the they were meant to do. That decision was challenged. What happened? We were uh we were disadvantaged by the courts. We were disadvantaged by the courts. The courts participated in an illegality in that they knew that this matter should be taken care of in a particular space of time, but even went to an extent of giving a stay that made it go beyond the specified period and make sure that the matter lapsed before a proper decision could be made in that regard. That was the beginning of the ECZ being a nuisance in this process. They have moved from being an umpire, an independent umpire, to being the active participants in a game that are played between uh between teams. They have come up with uh uh uh uh uh issues that are only targeted at the opposition. There is nothing that the the the ACZ has stated in terms of regulations outside the law that they may have felt affected the ruling party. Everything is targeted at the the the opposition in this particular regard. You notice how that they did all those things and they realized, and this is this confirmation that they knew that they were doing something that's unlawful. Now they are seeking to amend the law to say uh certificates must be signed by the secretary general of the party or the president of the party. That is the law that is before parliament. Now they've come up with a new regulation to say that the adoption certificate, where the candidate is not uh a president of the party, the president of the party and the secretary general must sign. Where are they getting that from? You've already told us that either one of them can sign, and you are putting that into law. Is that a submission that they are making to the National Assembly? No, it is not a submission they are making to the National Assembly. They've already broadcast it to the people. Even the that issue that is in the National Assembly, they talked of it when we had a stakeholders meeting, casting a bill as though it is already law, telling people what should happen over a matter that was just a bill. Now the process has begun, and this process that has begun, we uh we we have uh a situation where we need to have uh uh over 1,800 counselors in different places? Should the ECZ, the Electoral Commission of Zambi, be the one to regulate the internal affairs of a political party? Should uh an adoption certificate in Caputa for a World Counselor be signed by a secretary general of a party? Do you want a secretary general of a party to sit down now and sign over 2,000 adoption certificates for all the candidates around the country? That includes the the the counselors who are way above 1,800. You have council chairpersons, you have members of parliament as well as the president. You need your secretary general to sit and sign all those. Now you wonder what has given ICZ this authority to intermedle in the affairs of the of a political party. You want the registrar or societies to determine what should go in the constitutions of political parties and how they regulate themselves. And you want the registrar of society to carry out that which the uh the the executive wants. If they refuse to, you put them on leave. The registrar of society, the um the hot office, has not been in office all these years, from 2023 at least, has not been in office. What offense did she commit? The offense she committed is she refused to change the office bearers for the Patriotic Front Party because she said that that she did not agree that the convention of the 24th of October 2023 was held in the manner that the PF constitution provided for. What happened? She was removed and charged, and now she's at home. Everyone who's uh purported to be a registrar of society right now, I should think they are only in an acting capacity. Because the holder of the office is together with over 430 civil servants that have been told to remain at home from the time this government came. They have removed them, told them to remain at home, they are getting paid for staying at home, and those that are in their positions are getting paid for acting in those positions. That is a very big waste of resources. You have a human resource that is at home being paid for doing nothing, and you have human resource that has taken up those positions, being paid an acting allowance, as though the holders of those offices are there. That is an abuse of office, that is corrupt, that is that is an overreach when it comes to the running of the civil service. No wonder we have a civil service that is so disgruntled, that's so demotivated. We need to get back to the basics and do what's right for the country.

SPEAKER_12 1:01:32

Um, before we open the phone lines, I have two questions for you. First, let's talk briefly about the U.S. ambassador. He castigated the government of President Hakainde Ichilema, calling it corrupt, um dishonest, and uh the misreal that he exposed, including the appointment of persons that are being investigated by the anti-corruption to head the very anti-corruption commission. Uh he also talked about that reforms by President Akainde Chilema Bogas, because he says there are no sacred causes that will fight corruption from the past, present, and future. You have an anti-corruption commission that has discontinued uh investigations against key ministers that were deemed to have participated in corruption. I think that this statement by the Michael Gonzalez, the outgoing US ambassador, were very profound. I don't know what your thoughts are about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:32

Well, you also need to say that there was a response, an abysmal one for that matter, as to what the American ambassador said. See, the American ambassador was very categorical over the issues that were of concern. The response from government was a blanket one. They did not address each and every one of those. It is an issue that I've raised before. Why were there changes in the pricing from 400 or at least over 400 million all the way up to 800 million with these monies on top? What has happened to the loan that was given towards the same uh road? And if if there was a loan that was given to the company to be recovered in 25 years by the Chinese government, what is our NAPSA with that contractor? If the contractor was given NAPSA money, why is the contractor being given to run the tool gates for purposes of um of recovering the money and paying back to NAPSA? Why is the was the consortium given 30 million dollars for for doing nothing? If that is not corruption, what is it then? Shouldn't you have specifically addressed those issues and stated whether or not they were true? This issue of pollution of the Kafue River on the copper belt and the dangers that it poses to the Zambian people, isn't it an act of recklessness if you're not going to address it as to look at the safety of the people that you govern, the people that you hope to campaign to to come and vote for you? Shouldn't it be a matter of concern? An issue was raised as to how monies are being taken to East Asia, uh being uh moving from our economy into East Asia. Shouldn't that be a matter of concern? Shouldn't you address it specifically and say there are no such things that are going on? Okay, there's this uh uh uh aid that has been given, and the misappropriation of the aid or or the the the the the idea of those that are said to be perpetuating these uh these these wrongs only go away with a slap on the wrist. Should that be the case? Is it not true that the person that was appointed at ACC was undergoing investigations at that particular time? And this time around, the people that are being appointed as judges who are still under investigations, is it right that we should proceed in that manner? Is it right that we should only uh uh have uh courts created to try certain people, those that belonged to the PF uh government, and anyone else goes to the normal courts, but these courts are specifically uh created to deal with those those people, or at least the close associates of those that were in PF. Is that a right thing? Are you telling us that there has been no corruption within the UPND in the last uh few years? This corruption that has been uh has has been uh said to have existed, are there people that are undergoing trial for having abused or misused uh government resources? Those that are seemingly close. To this government and those that are in government and holding positions of power are being let loose. The Financial Intelligence Center report is talking about the outflows and the inflows of monies that are suspected to be uh uh illicit. What has this government done about that? Pretty much nothing. So all those things that were raised by the ambassador of the United States of America were not speculative in nature. And he's on record of having said, listen, we have brought this to the attention of the government. We have asked to engage. And what has been said, noted, later, some other time. All those things have been said and made known to the public because the allegiance of every one of us should be to the Zambian people and not to the leadership in power. The American people are helping the Zambian people, not the leaders of political parties who are in government. That is not the uh uh the lamentation. How that he cried that this aid uh in terms of medication that was coming into uh into Zambia or indeed support towards the health sector was uh misappropriated more times than many. And it is the poor Zambian that has to suffer, that has to be told go and buy medicine from a pharmacy, and when they go to a pharmacy, possibly they'll find that the medication that they have been taught to buy says not for sale, donated by the by USAID. Is that what we we we will continue to subject our people to? Should we have in this time and age painkillers being bought from pharmacies and not being available in hospital? What has happened to the cancer diseases hospital? Where are the reagents for the uh laboratories? Should people continue going to Tanzania now? Shouldn't we have been saying, okay, we have one at uh UTH, a cancer disease hospital, let's build one in Livingston, let's build one in uh in Mongo, let's build one in uh in Kasama, let's build one in Chipata so that our people are able to access this uh these facilities nearby. But we let it run down. We say there is no money, and the next thing we're saying, we paid uh China uh by mistake from ZESCO, we paid eight million dollars by mistake. Who makes such a mistake? Who makes such a mistake in an economy such as ours? When eight million dollars moves, you feel it. Is that the sort of government that you want to continue in power? Where even cooperating partners are worried. If what has been brought by others is not respected, other countries have helped us, what has is not respected and accounted for properly. What about the taxpayers' money? What about our own money that uh is being collected from these toggles and uh in the in the markets? What is it it being used? It is no wonder the cost of living is only going higher because there's no proper use of the resources that that we have. That will benefit the Zambia. Let the resources benefit the Zambians, let there be fair investment where Zambians are the ultimate beneficiaries and not those power purporting to give opportunities to foreign entities only to line up their pockets. That should not be the case, and that should be frowned upon. And that's why we are resolved that as a resolute party, we will make changes to how government is run and will show the UPND, or at least take them to class, as how to govern Zambia and ensure that the cost of living is reduced and uh the resources work for the Zambian people.

SPEAKER_12 1:10:12

My dear brother, Professor Rubinda Habazok, and congratulations to him, is now a professor. Says the opposition underestimating President Hakainde Ichilema, and that um uh we are casual, the opposition is casual in challenging President Hakinde Ichilema. Uh I'll put a rider to that. If you look at the scale required to beat the president, first you have to protect the vote. We have now 16,400 polling stations, we have 226 uh you know uh constituencies, the ones that are vote-based. We have, of course, um 10 provinces to cover, and the logistical and financial technical resources required to marshal such as uh an election uh immediately come to the fore. In fact, the issue of the opposition coming together and uniting also benefits because then you can pull your resources, both human, financial, and technical, to protect the vote. Are we ready as the opposition? Are you ready as the opposition to participate in this election?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:31

To start with, uh what my brother Honorable Windazoka, I wouldn't take it as an analysis that is independent. And he knows why I'm saying this. He knows what his leaning uh is uh right now. I will I will I will I will I will not discuss this. But the system of our elections is dependent on polling station to vote. The protection of that vote is at polling station level. What Zambians are going to do in that polling station should be the one that is reflected at all centers where the votes are being totaled. It is for that reason that we are seeing strange amendments to our law where they're saying once you vote, leave the polling station. What's the fear? What are you afraid of? Shouldn't I have the right to go by the patient and ensure that my voted? To ensure my will as a Zambian is the one that is going to supersede every other will of or at least the will of that of the governors, we should be able to organize ourselves. To the smallest unit as an opposition, but also as Zambians, party Zambians you who are being told to carry out these activities that subvert the will of the Zambians, posterity will judge you harshly. Remember to put your country first. This has been done before. People have been have tried uh before to subvert the will of the uh of their countrymen and women. But those that were entrusted to carry out this process stood firm and said we will not do what is wrong, will serve the best interest of the country. I'm calling on all those that will be managing these elections, retaining officers, uh polling uh agents, uh every everyone that is concerned with an election, the ECZ, Madam Zalomis, to serve the interest of Zambians. Because if you take away this will or this right of the people to choose to the vote, the the the requirement which have been given to by law to be the right way to change leadership, the result of that this denial would lastly to contemplate. We we should not contemplate going in that direction. We should enable ourselves to ensure in place for ourselves, work to show the will of the people, work to ensure that the will of people is shown. And the way to the opposition is let us open our eyes and see the bigger picture here. Indeed, we need to come together, but beyond coming together, we need to ensure that the Zambians have a credible election. And we'll call on all cooperating partners, all our our our neighbors in the block, or indeed uh organizations that we belong to, NGOs. For the first time in this country, at least from the time we got into multipartism, this is a time when the uh NGOs uh are downtrodden the most, are being shut up uh uh the most. We can't allow ourselves to continue. Protectors of democracy, institutions of democracy must be allowed to thrive. Not allowing them to thrive is unconstitutional. Not allowing them to be autonomous and independent is unconstitutional. It goes against the very law that we set for ourselves, and we must be able to protect these laws. The judiciary, I would call on the judiciary to do the right thing. For once, let us ensure that these institutions of democracy are protected. It would not be a responsibility or opposition to ensure that we have a free and fair election elections. It is your responsibility, judiciary that when a matter is brought before you, you expeditiously deal with it and show the Zambians the course that it should take. It is your responsibility that has been given to you by the Zambians. They're saying this power which we have, we have given to you the judiciary to do the right thing. So let the judiciary uh do the right thing. When a matter is brought, as urgent as uh it it appears, deal with it and give direction to the country. A lawful one, not one that pleases this government. Are you capable of that? Are you capable, patriotic, and doing the right thing? Or should we wait for change to do an overhaul, or at least an overhaul of the civil service, an overhaul of the legislature, an overhaul of our governance system to put us back on track? I do believe that we still have good men and women who are capable of doing the right thing. Good when good men and women who will follow the law for what it is and give the Zambians what they want. Let everything reflect the will of the Zambians, not the will of those that are governing. That is my call. Let us take it beyond the uh the participants in this election and be the ones to take up this burden and say we have to carry Zambia forward through legit means that we have uh put for ourselves. That is what I would uh uh that that would be my response to that question, Ambassador.

SPEAKER_12 1:17:33

Thank you very much. We are hosting Honorable Makebizulu, PF Pamosi Alliance president, and the picked resolute party as a special purpose vehicle to participate in these elections after the break. We take your phone calls. Hello, caller. You are my first caller. Tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:48

Uh, thank you, Ambassador Mwamba. I am with Um Siniang. I am so glad that you have our president Makebi Zulu. My question to our president, the incoming president of Zambia, and I'll I'll ask him this question. President Makebi Zulu, even in the Bible, the kingdom, if you read Matthew chapter 22, verse 2 to 3, we're looking at the kingdom of heaven, is like a king who prepared a wedding bouquet for his son. And then he went out to invite people to come to this wedding. Yes, Ambassador Ambassador Mwamba, and even the President Make Bizulu. You've gone out to reach to these people. But the most important tool, President Makebi Zulu, is the people of Zambia. And the people of Zambia are behind you. Yes, you need with a purpose is welcome. But again, when you go out to invite people to say, Mewantu, let us come and save the Zambian people. This is what we need to do for the Zambian people. If people don't want to yield to that call, President Makebizulu, your core should be with the Zambian people. Makebi Zulu, you are the chosen one. There's no need to start, yes, we need people to work together. And those who come to your core, trust me, then they want to save a better Zambia and they love Zambia. We are behind you, President Makebizulu, and we'll continue supporting you. And this moment, President Makebi Zulu, my emphasis and my point is start working with the Zambian biggest opposition party, and that is the Zambian people. We love you and God bless you. And thank you, Ambassador Mamba, for having us this opportunity to talk to the president. God bless Zambia. Thank you.

SPEAKER_12 1:20:39

Allo Cola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and uh make your quick contribution.

SPEAKER_13 1:20:46

Uh, I'll remain anonymous. Good evening, um Makebi Zulu, and good evening, Emmanuel Momba.

SPEAKER_12 1:20:57

Yes, my brother, proceed.

SPEAKER_13 1:21:00

Yes, uh, first of all, I want to register my disappointment in uh Comrade Make Bizulu for confusing us, the voters who are very, very thirsty to change this regime, and just wanting to be so selfish and defending us to give us a proper direction as an opposition.

SPEAKER_12 1:21:22

Thank you. Hello, caller. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from.

SPEAKER_14 1:21:30

Yes, Nina Mumbipiri Mkwai, honorable mumbipiri m kwai. Because of this situation to my grandchildren.

SPEAKER_12 1:21:44

Okay, president.

SPEAKER_14 1:21:47

Good evening.

SPEAKER_12 1:21:49

He can hear you, thank you.

SPEAKER_14 1:21:52

Mkwai, first see, I want to appreciate him. I saw a picture of him today on Mother's Day. All about the paradigm like me, and my other son, have a son who looks like me, although he's a boy. Yes, but my kebab, and it's me who started endorsing you so far for now for my land, according to me, it's very, very progressive and continue engaging everybody. I told you that if these people cannot come together, it means once everybody shamu ama three in the mole book is for me, Baba Kebi, I'm so proud of you. Even yesterday, you know we had a very big meeting. I am a Catholic women organization, and I was there, but for Sina Siniango was there, but Jinka Pata was there, Nabasil Vachalu Kosa because we are Catholic women, and let us continue praying. And today, when we went for mass, Vashumuamba, I know you are missing home. Let me tell you, coincidentally, I don't know why. When I wanted to state on Vena, we are starting a novena for the receiving of the uh nanka de the Holy Cross, and we are starting it on the 14th to Katampa Novena, and when you look at the period, the registration of MPs, presidents, and everything, it's within that period, but Shumuamba Move. Let God speak to him and let him listen to what people are saying. Me, um I'm his mother, and I'm the first one who endorsed him as a president. I'll support him through out, and we love him, and we love all our other candidates. Let him also start loving them, but otherwise, open that she sa johinina, the way he has spoken, it's very positive.

SPEAKER_12 1:25:16

Thank you.

SPEAKER_14 1:25:17

And now back to me, Bambook, Mr. Ufumani and like don't despair. My son, you are number one, number one.

SPEAKER_12 1:25:30

Thank you, bye. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from.

SPEAKER_28 1:28:07

Special forces. So special forces in Okolaki. Because the collection of background.

SPEAKER_12 1:28:29

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Amun Kong. There are so many calls. Thank you very much. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:38

Um, good evening, uh Ambassador, and good evening, uh President Mackey.

SPEAKER_12 1:28:43

Good evening.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:43

This is Alex.

SPEAKER_12 1:28:44

Alex, make your contributions quickly.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:47

Yeah, it's so overwhelming, but uh to first of all, it's very overwhelming to hear how honorable and president he now president Mackey, the way he brings out issues, and I can only wish him all the best. Again, I'll tackle the issue of um unity. As we are preparing ourselves towards these elections, the devil through HH, the devil through HH, he's determined to kill and to destroy. But we have to put up a fight. And this fight, it has to be through you as leaders. Look at how many, like I mentioned the other day, that this election has got nothing to do with an individual. It's going to, it's so much on the people of the land, and that land is called Zambia. It's a prayerful nation, is a Christian nation, and through you, maybe people don't know. President Makebizulu, you're a son of a bishop, you're a son of a pastor, and you are a son, you are a child of God. And God has chosen you to deliver us. Please, we give you all the support. Who prayers? This is all what I can say. Thank you.

SPEAKER_12 1:29:52

Thank you very much. Thank you very much. There are so many calls. Hello, caller. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_26 1:30:01

Good evening, Ambassador. Good evening. This is Dr. K.

unknown 1:30:05

Dr.

SPEAKER_12 1:30:05

K calling you. Make your contribution.

SPEAKER_26 1:30:09

Thank you so uh thank you so much, Ambassador, and thank you so much for bringing um our president today. I was very excited to worship with him here in Lusaka this morning. Such an exceptional leader, such a humble person, and uh we are behind him. I just want to echo what uh Dan Sinyangwe mentioned earlier. I think the call for opposition to unite has been very, very clear. And President Makebizulu has demonstrated, you know, and opened up his arms to anyone, including those who left the PF to rejoin, you know, the PF Bamosi Alliance. And I want to recommend him for doing so. And um, what I want just to urge him is um, with the leadership, of course, is to go flat out now to the grassroots and ensure that those people that are waiting for him to kick start the campaign, which has not yet started, that the leadership should be able to be in touch with those people at the grassroots, starting with the provincial structures, the district structures and the constituent structures. I think it's very, very important because already, you know, because he came in um a bit late compared to Brian Munduvile, who started way back campaigning, you know, people, the structures were somehow tempered, especially at the district level, where people, of course, were rude, you know, to support um uh Brian Mundovile, the Toast Alliance. And there's this confusion where people think that Toast Alliance is PF and PF is Toast Alliance. So that should be cleared by the leadership, especially those at the provincial level and at the district and constituency levels. So I'm very, very excited, and I want to urge him that the opposition that he should be looking at are the Zambian people. That's the biggest opposition, and it should work with the Zambian people to ensure that the second independence comes and we have confidence in him. The oil of anointing is upon him. He is the Joshua to take us into the promised land. Thank you so much, Ambassador, for this job that you're doing.

SPEAKER_12 1:32:33

Thank you. I'll call a pleaseless name and where you are calling us from and give us your contribution.

SPEAKER_31 1:32:39

Good evening, your excellency.

SPEAKER_12 1:32:41

Good evening.

SPEAKER_31 1:32:44

My name is Hendrix Antale, Your Excellency, calling from Osaka.

SPEAKER_12 1:32:48

Make your contribution.

SPEAKER_31 1:32:50

Thank you, Excellency. Your Excellency, my question to his excellency, the incoming president of the Republic of Zambia, Makebizuru, is when are we expecting uh to see the dissolute party manifesto? And how quickly uh are we seeing uh the structures or mass structures party now for your excellency? But to explain we know so that took shani, but a resolute party in a patriot front because leadership to remona uh yeah, PFO. We should PFU structure nice from uh PFU structures from PFU no puya resolutions, your excellency.

SPEAKER_12 1:33:58

You will explain very much. Thank you. Hello, caller, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from. I'll be taking the last three calls and then we allow uh Honorable Makebizulu to answer your questions. Yes, caller, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from.

SPEAKER_23 1:34:15

Hello, hello cola. Hello, cola. Oh, we lost the colour.

SPEAKER_12 1:34:30

Hello, caller. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and give us your contribution.

unknown 1:34:37

Mr.

SPEAKER_11 1:34:37

Mwamba, how are you, sir?

SPEAKER_12 1:34:39

I'm very well, thank you. Who's calling and where are you calling us from?

SPEAKER_11 1:34:43

Emmanuel is my name, but I will not finish the other name. Thank you very much for the first time I've been calling you. I mean, I've been following you. In fact, even before you went, but for the sake of time, I just want to urge the as the people are following this leaders calling for the opposition to unite. But there's one thing, one observation I want to make. Why we are calling for the opposition to be to be united? Let us be the first one. Because I've observed the situation whereby some of the opposition that would want to run to run behind are calling others to come and join them so that they give the manager the position of vice president of the party or the running mate or what. You know, you remember very well that before the late president died. For me, he was the most practical candidate to all this. But he was the one going to see even to smaller opposition to follow them. I've got only a couple of keys so that they they sit down together and synthesize and see see what we how we should come together. But yeah, we've seen this a very disappointing situation for me, which others probably are not seeing. Whereby, for instance, Mamaku will call the other person, can you come to me so that I will give you the position? I'm just giving an example because I haven't taken from him calling others to say, can you come and join me? For me, which is very, very arrogant. Okay, I I like the way he's doing things. He has always been very patiently waiting for this and that and everything falling place. That is how leadership is supposed to be.

SPEAKER_12 1:36:11

Because whenever you're calling Annas and say, Can you think come and check that one come and join me?

SPEAKER_11 1:36:15

I will I'll give you the running position. As if you have already won the election. Now we are you are extending an audible branch to others. How do you behave like that as an opposition?

SPEAKER_12 1:36:25

Thank you. Thank you, my brother. Let's take calls. Um, there are so many calls. Thank you. We got your point. Hello, caller. Please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution. Good evening.

SPEAKER_16 1:36:42

Oh, evening, Mr. President Makebi Zulu. Beginning. Yo, Bible, Kotiamori Joshua, Bamakebi say, You don't do Joshua. If an alarm Ba lungu, inoba to shit about shapuba lungu beka. Bama kebi baisa ufwati. Bodiaba lungu ya luba. Bama kebi ba dima. Baya. Bamwamba do fwa tamo kuri na to shakashi come chalo chabambi. Ukuya suntu, Iamkufuya mutuasangaku two mountain kuyata kuri president. Naba senda, baba you senda. Kabi divashi, it wanma kabi. Fuaba la baila spokesperson you have sangwakita. Baya private. Wish a kwana for mina zambia for it for mina zambia. Put ya tama cham samwena. Pakamakab the eight hours of my teen hours. Work it up. Who might send that weight by papa. Walatunia. Fula. Yeah, my colleges the bala immunica. Badia. Balataba finger paper, taba fula. She didn't be ashes. Mama can go to what temp zambia. If I should be uh the muni fishing damage foontawila, the balancing for mona. Ababa pairing. Ban faperoam. Balan d'accord. Bafueland sure myself and that it's evidence. Sure, I sure wouldn't.

SPEAKER_12 1:39:48

Thank you, my thank you. Yeah. And O caller, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and your last caller for this evening.

SPEAKER_29 1:40:11

They folks that challenge Mamakebizulu. Mamakebizulu, Naribe Ishiva. Now Blan Mundu Vide. They are good friends. Awa ishiva in Kondelanda. From 2021 up to 2025. Subsidiary office here PFI wamake bizulu. Wa make bizulu a lesangwana wabrani munduvi mwesimo. Ava these are friends. So wamake bi nangwablan mundulemule mfuwa. Tapali ya impika in da vei kalamba, io mwinda swe mwabiru kwika la pan shima mfuana. Pantu avantu e kuyama opposition y politiko party aenki. Kuma wantu wale landa twwama kebi nawablan mundu vireve kali pamo wumfuani. Elon na uku mfuana. Mfueni etu de sale misosha, etu kampingwale misosha, etu nawantu wale landa, awama cheichi, ifumu, ifikole umfueni. Kabili, manu e ni. Iti sosa chipa mano. Chingbechu na la niakuwa makebi. Iwinggi, ifumu shonaika, nawantu ba chinggirire. Bonsemwa mundurire, awavantuwa mi chingiriri, nawamakebantuwa mi chinggiriri, mwefintu umfueni, fimbitiwe fimafta, yakusuwa, pandufia wama politics, pantu twali kwatama kampu, uliu sale mlawatu yunga join no winin kawapapesa, u yuba makebinggawayo kwin kawapesa, wamundu ngawa nkabapesa. Palasi, instead of discussing ifintufia we and tanchi, kuwa wakwa tiao tu yaku, abana watawa tu yaku pose to rolesha. Rolesha ni mazambia neshu ba lila.

SPEAKER_12 1:42:24

Neshuwa. Thank you, my brother, thank you, my brother. This is now finally my last call. No more calls. Hello, alo cola. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from, and we bring in Honorable Makebizulu to answer.

SPEAKER_10 1:42:38

Hello?

SPEAKER_12 1:42:38

Yes, Cola.

SPEAKER_10 1:42:41

Uh, you're speaking to Caroline from East London, South Africa.

SPEAKER_12 1:42:45

Yes, my dear sister.

SPEAKER_10 1:42:47

Yes, uh, my karashani win palme is one mumba endita ndita. Awe naika wino. Aw, in and default president wesuwa make zulu, imue ni mwemwasa umundu na wwale landa kuwa mona tiku yuni leader a mashuale wumfia. Ule mwa no nefia le no pole sam tela wisdom. Tulinaimate zulu to kamisa bo the bonse ofamukaya le sa akaba naimwe. A ban tu ba balubule ni mweba mlubula zamja ni muewituba mate bizulu. Therefor, we are going to stand as women and support you to make sure that if a kwema nakashwema ishibomu tumamamuana ni kwebebu, ishiba to we kasun gaba na kwenuebu. Therefore, if we all the women they will stand fame and support you because i mweba make muka mukalugula vena zambia. So if we in in a nami supporter, no kwebati imwe, ni mue umekalu mukalulavena zambia. Avantu wonse babole se pali imu ebamake zulu. Now pusha mkwaibamon.

SPEAKER_12 1:44:02

Thank you, thank you. Now I can be forgiven. Tandiwa Keti Singoma says I can be there can't be any last colour without her. Okay, Tandiwa Keti Singoma, you are excused before we bring in honorable make. Please make your contributions quickly.

SPEAKER_25 1:44:18

Okay, thank you so much. Um I just want to thank uh President Makebizulu for the effort that uh he has put in uh um to ensure that there's uh unity with the opposition and the talks which are happening. Um fix any window. We are not dealing Avanto, aba temi timasha avant to while no watcher, we are praying for you that God will strengthen you, God will give you more wisdom and see how best you can liberate our country from the hands of the dictator. Then, lastly, even as you become president of Zambia, if you feel Namwika Lava president, idea state house, Ida community house wait as well. There is no way he can have such a house as a former head of state when you, as a president, will be staying in a house which the Zambians will give you. Kungwa zi house because you are a law-abiding citizen and you will be a law-abiding president. Nobody allowed him to do what he has done to that community house. Therefore, okay, my dear sister.

SPEAKER_12 1:46:37

Now you are talking about um Brian Mundubili. And you are saying you are also speaking to other political leaders. There are persistent questions here. What happens if these talks fail? What will you do? In together with the other questions that you have to call us. I'm so sorry. Uh, maybe we can take the cause after Honorable Makebizulu has gone. You and I can discuss what we do on social media. But let's allow for Honorable Makebizulu to answer to these questions and make his last remarks.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:12

Thank you very much, Mahamwamba, for for that question. And uh which came from the others. I wish to thank you most sincerely. And uh, firstly, if I'm to address your question, I will tell you that if at all this failure to come together on the part of the opposition, I can guarantee you that it will not be because of us. Because time and again, we are willing to work with all. And uh the fact that we are talking to this does not mean that we've closed the door. We've not closed the doors uh citizens' face, uh Zambia must prosper, or indeed FTD and uh uh Don't say Alliance, we no door is closed because of why and if you are and abena Zambia Utira, it's in Pamo, Mampa N Pamo, Mustachin Tushimo, Ichinga Tungkulola, Abena Zambia. And that's what we're looking to do. And it is for that reason that we said if can you share Ukumfia PF, how are we going to express ourselves? If we're tulela and resolute party, we're expressing ourselves through resolute party as a true patriotic, the mouthpiece has been taken away. The way in which we've been expressing ourselves now, resolute party as a vehicle that we're going to use. Nasimbo eleven chola, and to have to um chola, emulinchito, database database, all opportunities are coming out of this bank. And improvement in the agriculture sector are in this bag. Uh improvement in the mining sector is in this bag, improvement in terms of uh energy. If we're not quatra, uktungula, uh, from the tyrannical rule, or indeed the misrule of the UPND. That's what we we are saying. So, Gamle Fua Sugar, Omoedumine, Gamle Fa Hto, Omoedi, Philosoph, Mamchola, Echo Mmungichola, Wetata, Chola Wemai, or Echola Wemana. Today, as a symbol that we're going to use to express ourselves. To say we're not coming with selfish ambition. In this bag, there is unity, in this bag, there's constitutionalism, in this bag, there's the rule of law, in this bag, there's the respect for human rights, and we will take them out. Whatever you want, we have in this Amisak or in this uh in this bag uh to aleta or to lelandapo. Because we want to be able to express ourselves to the Zambians in the things that they do on a day-to-day basis. So all these things to do with education, access to education, access to good health, access to uh having a good economy, improving our agricultural sector, to have as a way that we're going to express ourselves. So Caroline Manda Amanda Fiumalanda, uh, I agree with you. We need um your support. We need every Zambian in this in this cause. We are not uh saying that uh uh not to re kaukuba chapamo to ashako baambi. We're saying let's go together, let's build a united Zambia together. That's why we're saying a bag of hope uh for a nation's future. And this idea of hope is something that we must never lose as a country. The day that we lose hope is the day that we'll die as a nation. And here we are presenting a bag of hope to the Zambian people. And uh you said work with the structure. We believe that the biggest opposition is the Zambian people. Number Ama Zambians uh UPND, Tetuma Sendela registration certificate. Ama Zambians tawa kwata registration certificate. Now the voter's card. You can take away the uh the registration certificate of any political party, you can make rules of any pol uh of anything that disqualifies or makes uh it difficult for the opposition to thrive, but you will not take away that voter's card uh that show that's that uh that shows the power of every Zambian citizen to make a decision. And this that they want is for the betterment of Zambia. Now, if we're not we Perecha Uktila, ah we tuala bombila abena Zambia, tuala tua i peresha uktila, nga malanda tuampana chapa, mampana chapa. And that's the reason that we are talking to to each other, and we're saying that we are even willing to lay down our ambitions. If that is what the Zambian people want, if that is what is going to save the best interests of uh Avena Zambia, nga echala uh save Avena Zambia. If you echo to a lachta echo chin, and that is exactly that we uh we we are committing ourselves to do. And we appreciate the good work that you have been doing as a diaspora. Speaking out for the voiceless, speaking out for those voices that that have been made to be timid, that have been frustrated. We thank you so much for the good work. And we hope that you can hype up those voices so that uh Zambians can regain that voice again and be able to speak for themselves, even from home, as you are doing for us from that side. And I can promise you that there's light at the end of the tunnel. When the UPND tells you that there's light at the end of the tunnel, they mean there's a trend that's on coming. But for us, we're telling you that we're light at the end of the tunnel to mean that we are going to get out of this situation in no time. Because on the other side, what we see is opportunities for all. What we see on the other side is where you are able to live and come back into your country. I don't believe these days, Nayakoya Port, Barrenchamrea Kwisa, Mkesari Ladi, how many days are you spending where you are going? I have the right to go where I want to go, spend however long I want to take and come back to my own country without being questioned. But now it's like uh it's it's it's it's forbidden to leave your country. You need someone's permission to leave your country. It shouldn't be like that. We need to reassert ourselves and gain back those uh particular uh particular freedoms that we lost. But Mayoba Mumbipiri, thank you very much for your encouraging words and thank you for being uh uh uh uh uh support system uh for the PF and the voice of reason in times that uh may be had. And obviously, you have taught us very well to continue engaging everybody uh for purposes of ensuring that uh we have a united opposition. Happy Mother's Day to you and the other mothers around the country. And we know that uh you'll continue giving us uh direction and correcting us where we go wrong. My brother uh Dennis Nyangwe and uh my colleague who chose to be anonymous, uh Alex, Immanuel, but Shalla, all those that called in, you are all talking about the idea that Zambia must be emancipated. There is no one that I've heard that agrees or indeed is of the view that Arabari Pobade to take a feel. Ah we are all agreed that we need a change. But it's not just about having a change, it's about having a change with a plan. And our plan is to ensure that we're able to lower the cost of living for every Zambian. We are able to give equal opportunities to all Zambians, we are able to ensure that our natural resources work for uh the Zambians, we're able to see that our agricultural sector works best and pleases uh in the best interest of the farmer. We need to put that farmer first. We need to serve farmer in terms of agriculture because agriculture alone is capable of being the biggest employer in our country. We need to harness all the dividends that we can harness from agriculture. We need to mechanize our farming system. And when we look at our economy, we need to move from being an import-based country to being an export-based country. And as we export, are we adding value to our exports? Those are the things that we're saying we we are getting out of this bag. Ichola, the bag of hope. Those are the things that are in this bag of hope that we are presenting to the Zambians. We want a Zambia that knows that when a leader speaks, they speak nothing but the truth. So out of this bag needs to come out truth. So that when we say, yo, KCM, Ia, not my rot, yo, shtaakabuelele, or yo, naivela, yo, we are pleased. If you Zambians need a truthful leader. And uh the current regime has proven that they can be trusted. They get they renege on anything that they've ever said in the uh to us. They they create an environment that does not allow the normal Zambians to flourish. Zambians should be allowed to be rich. Zambians should be allowed to make their money without being questioned uh too much or as to where they got their money, because you never question them when they are poor. So give them business, give them legitimate businesses, of course. And uh, we know that Zambians are hardworking and they're capable of raising resources. Just give them those opportunities. Don't have a uh a database where no one knows that there's a database that exists, and suddenly you show up and say, Twari kwata database, tu are become a machine. I know I became a machine. Now mtuulete kwa machina mutubi keko mumwinam database. Now for tule kwa takwa my opportunities. No Zambians knew about that until we saw that recruitment. And you claim you got that from the database. We doubt if at all that database does exist. We say give opportunities to northerners, westerners, southerners, uh, easterners from all the country, give them these opportunities. Take uh development to the people, give uh health care to the people, ambide to give opportunities for Zambians to be able to access good health. Number it's scrambling down. Abantu can't access uh good health. We want to ensure that when when when we come and open this bag of hope, we're able to give uh uh medical aid to to the Zambians. We are able to make sure that uh uh social uh the social safety net that we're going to put across is going to take of uh care of each and every one uh of the Zambians. Where are we going to come from? We have sufficient resources to raise this money from. And uh we we have to close all those gaps. Okwa tuve Americans at Vale Mibira mwena Zambia. I meni loleshe ni F Tika. Napaku vota mukale Lolesha Pantu Avanaba me vi dasana. If you are tueved ambassadwa America. No mbanga aveni by saisamunganda watwe mibi batu ebana uktuwa twaali mi pedefi, ababadisendanaba mebiya. We should listen to to those voices of reason. Na ifunat mono uktira e chishin kabale tu ibila. Pantu insto, awaris send into are those that are related or or close to the party. How can you go and appoint one Mrs. Ed Masoshi, Alexhta campaign muluansha, defow kuba MP, Leruatiyo, Nuevo Commissioner ku ku electoral commission of Zambia? Does that make sense? Does that give you the impression that the interest is to serve the interest of the Zambians or at least to ensure that we have a credible election? Zambians must be awake and be able to challenge all those decisions that are being made by this government. That's why we need the judiciary. We need reforms in the civil service. We need reforms in the in the in the police. We need reforms uh in the investigative agencies of this country. We need reforms in the governance structure. We need a president who will say, uh-uh, I am a car, shelea fuya, because this is capable of making me a dictator. Let us distribute these powers to institutions of governance that are able to carry out their jobs independently. Not took, but they can't report. Gavashta report minister at yo, you investigate. Gawashta report to someone who is going to come from the opposition at our own. We shouldn't do that. And going forward, we need to stop these politics of vengeance. We need to ensure that our leaders enjoy a good life. The narration by our good lady as regards what happened to Balungu is something that makes sad reading. And uh it's something that should make every Zambian weep every night because you can't go in that trajectory where you mistreat someone in their lifetime, you mistreat them in their death, you even follow them to the motoring, cut them up, and with remorse whatsoever, with no consideration as to the grief that you are causing to the family. We should not be headed in that direction. We should have that human heart, human spirit to be able to do the right thing. Not only do the right thing for for the country, even for your own conscience. You must be able to do uh uh to do the right thing. And uh, of course, there are quite a number of things that have been raised which we need to be addressing. We need to be talking about the policies that we're going to implement. And uh I'm I'm praying, uh Ambassador, that uh very soon after we we we we file nominations, we'll be rolling out our manifesto and we'll have a discussion around the manifesto and be able to tell the people of Zambia, it's all I feel finish it quite much. What is it that we are we are presenting? What is this that we're calling hope in this uh bag of hope that we're presenting to the Zambian people? If you want uh leadership with morality, you can't be able to do it, that's what we chola we tata, each or away mama, because we know that that is easy for you to say you own accessories in your bag that are going to help improve your life or that make your life even better. Uh that's that is uh about it that I can respond to the issues that have been raised. But uh you're right, as regards the issue of the structures and uh the Zambian people, we need to work together. All the PF structures are intact, and we are working both with the uh uh the structures within PF and those within the Pamosi Alliance. And I wish to take this opportunity to thank the leaders in the Pamosi Alliance from different opposition parties for saying, listen, we need to come together, we need to build a better Zambia, and uh that is exactly what we have committed ourselves to doing. So we are really grateful, and indeed, Bachala, some more opposition, but that's why Tulela and Shania Nokula and Shania Pali no Instaktida Nishila and Shaw Twingabombia make we save Zambia from the misery that we're experiencing right now. We have this opportunity, let's make use of it. Beyond this, we'll all be failures. But Zambians are resolute and they've got decided because what we want is a good government that looks at the interests of the Zambians, uh, lowers the cost of living, uh, improves and gives opportunities to Zambians and many other things that we have promised to deliver.

SPEAKER_12 2:03:13

I would like to commend the teacher who's teaching you Bemba, Yo Bae Shako. Wonderful, wonderful. Thank you. I'd like to thank Honorable Maker Bizuru for you know gracing us on this occasion and for explaining various issues. Wish you well in your endeavors with the opposition. Zambians are yearning for the opposition, ladies and gentlemen. I know I cut you, and there were so many calls. I'll just open the phone lines in the next 10 minutes just to hear you, but to release Honorable Makebizulu and the team that is on the ground. But when I come back, just after the next two minutes, uh, we will take your calls because this program is about your phone calls, and we don't want to deny you that opportunity. So pick your call and call. Thank you, thank you to Honorable Makebizulu. M Kwai Mai.

SPEAKER_22 2:05:38

But Makateway, somebody safety no gas, Zulu the Sale Babala. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_12 2:06:01

Thank you.

SPEAKER_30 2:06:12

Thank you so much, uh, Honorable Member. Uh, this is Donosco Italy.

SPEAKER_12 2:06:18

Father Donosco, please make your contribution.

SPEAKER_30 2:06:21

Yes, thank you so much. I appreciate for the evening um um discussion with um uh president maker. It's always a pleasure to listen to a person who is God fearing. And um, I think I've heard uh his openness for a dialogue and discussion. Um uh but uh but I hope he has to be extremely careful, even if you are going to discussion, there should be some uh sort of basics um or points on which uh the dialogue can be conducted, otherwise um it might not yield positive results. So the openness is welcome because um actually uh owing you one server, no summary shaker, come take a mono ben se vanga, shaimwishing, but shaka winobin. So um, regardless of all what we are seeing, everyone we are seeing what is happening in uh parliament and uh near moti, which is really disappointing. I thought we are going to have now the speaker was a woman, and we were expecting something beautiful from her, but um I think I would not hide the disappointment. I've been highly disappointed by the way the speaker of the National Assembly is conducting the business um uh programs in the parliament. Now, could uh could be honorable um uh two things I wanted to say. Um one, um, if at all he has thought of uh going to visit the young man Kaswan de Mwenda and to find out where this young man is. Why do I set this point? This point is also linked to the second one. The second point is what I always appreciate, what Makebizul has already done Bamwamba. Make Bizulu is um one of the few people, I think is the only one in his um um position who stayed with the Walungu um and protected Valungu was on the side of uh 60 Republican president. Now, in in um in Greek, there is a word which we use parakle uh paraklaim. Paraklaim is from the Greek word paraklitos. Paraklitos, sorry to use these words, is like Jesus Christ when he was going back into heaven, he told his disciples and the whole world, I won't leave you orphans, but I will leave you my Holy Spirit. Now that Holy Spirit, he promised to us in Greek they would say palakrine or palakritos. Palakritos, so it means the Holy Spirit which is on your behalf or which is on your side. Now, I was looking at Makebizur, he was on the side of uh um Ishiel in suffering, in this sickness, under persecution, and I look at Make Bizu, I say how fortunate this gentleman is. Doesn't know how fortunate he is. The mission as undertook to be close to Ediga Chagalungu is a noble mission. So now, if Makebi was near ECL, it was just like the spirit, very close to ECL. And ECL now, we are about to bury him. We hope we can bury him very soon, regardless of the people who are who might have taken some of the parts which belongs to him, regardless of that. But I am appealing to Macabizou. Can you do the same thing to the young man that's on the menda?

SPEAKER_12 2:10:56

Thank you, thank you, Father. Thank you, thank you so much. Hello, Cola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution. Make your contributions, thank you.

SPEAKER_24 2:11:12

Yes, um, uh, my contribution. I just want to encourage uh Mr. President Mamakembi Zulu to put his trust in God, and um, God is going to guide him. And also, I want to encourage the people of Zambia to please let us go support Mamakempe Zulu. You know, uh Mamakempe Zulu is a person who always called for unity and it started long time. Unfortunately, some people they don't want to listen. And even before he died, he used to unite all opposition leaders. So, my my my thought was if they can be united and choose one person who can stand and defeat him, because if all of They are not going to be united. It means we are going to be in a serious problem. As you can see, what is happening right now? People, they are in a serious problem. And if they are not going to take this matter seriously, they are going to put a lot of Zambian people in a serious problem. So please listen when people they are telling you. We are not saying that we are not supporting these other opposition leaders. We are in support with them. But what we want right now, it's all about getting our democracy back because we don't have democracy. Some people they don't believe, but democracy is not there. So please, that was my contribution. Thank you very much, Mr. President. Well spoken and God be with you always. Thank you.

SPEAKER_12 2:12:43

Thank you. We are taking the calls for you. We are trying to speak. It's time to speak quickly. And I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:24

Let them find one leader or at least let them agree so that we just have um one leader to be a special purpose vehicle, which the Zambian voter can uh go for. Okay? That's the best they would do. To ask that the voter will choose from the 26 is too much work for the voter. The voter can actually do that. We can just pick one out of the 26 and settle for one. But then the votes will still be split. We know that uh all of them want to become president and lead. A democracy requires all that. But when you're managing a crisis like the nation that is in, let them find one person that the voters can settle for. We run with them and uh we we move forward as a nation. You know, the nation is at crossroads at the moment. Things are not okay. Okay, so they should show that level of agency, they should show that level of uh unity, they should show that level of trust among each other. If at all they can't trust each other now, what what what what what confidence do we have that if we pick one, they'll be able to trust the Zambians and run government? They need to unite.

SPEAKER_12 2:17:43

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:17:46

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_12 2:17:49

Alocola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution. Shfunda, please make your contribution.

SPEAKER_07 2:18:02

Thank you so much. Uh, first of all, I just want to uh uh say thank you for the time that you have spent just uh sharing uh this on this program all this time, sir. May the Lord bless you. And uh secondly, I just want to say thanks for the president for showing up to just give clarity on on the way forward. Um well, my my contribution this evening is very clear that our God has come through for basically Zambia, and I pray that every person that is listening would be able to actually see. Um why am I saying so? But because the the government has made so many mistakes lately from the postmortem of Balungu, from the ambassador himself exposing the the the theft of the in the country, from uh UPND naming uh trying to name the market after uh H H from changing the topic, his name and putting it to Mazoka. So there has been a number of mistakes that the Lord Himself is reviewing so that people can see. So my advice is please amplify these mistakes, broadcast them, make sure that they are in public domain because remember, people forget so easily. So don't let them forget the load shedding of four years that has been there. Let there be adverts, let people make adverts and things to remind the people of what the UPND has done. So let these things be magnified, present for them in a magnifying glass what they have done. So this is my contribution, Mr. Mwamba, this evening.

SPEAKER_12 2:20:00

Thank you very much. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution. Mama T, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_15 2:20:21

Thank you so much. Uh, good evening, my president, Mr. Makebizulu. Mamakebi Ine, therefore, I feel me kose my pitamo uh you know pakulu pitamo. If you see name pitamo. So it's in the focumati if we banned background or poturiva, but to the four, to the four a vibrant reader you see for leader like you lead sa Lubula Avantuba Mzambia. If you show to a chula party five years a year or to take a baka in the each other, to the fire moon too, walkaru chalo uku conka ma foondea chalo, constitution ukwipe. In the name of wanting numbers. Ah we can't say so Bamaki nga paluanti nga mamati Nari Pela Ukubati Nara shita campaign, Uku Michita campaign. Bakwebati, August to come name uku uku winama elections. So kosene tata, to re mi pepera, to reforte in August to K Safia. Bombeni na ban tobalipa groundi unite shallow. Zambia popo to fiki eh, Zambia has been divided like never before. And then to the people out there, I want to tell you to say I am a light mole monaya. It is a kayak on guys the family, but into force or ongo soca. It is a footy canota ma foot to amenta owner party five years, one to fameta pitam. Yangana tiangana, won a tona. Tant is that vinto volongosoka footband to pan ja poenti guidizani, put it is easter barret. Gatis is a guidizana pathetino gasty. Mavuto as a piti leader, I mean about Zakuzana Tia itinerata free education. Free education at Vitan. If Vitan Vametu one up.

SPEAKER_12 2:23:05

But my dear sister, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_15 2:23:14

So tent is a puke mu. President Wameno Make Pizuru, 20 Perekustetaus Aperatongo Solere Vintu. Awera Titari Paretis in Mafutu and Meti Pitamo. But make Zuru Mona Gonavakas on the Muenda Uku.

SPEAKER_12 2:23:36

Thank you very much. I think I seem I seem to have one of our senior leaders, Honorable Chimbakambudi. Honorable Chimbakambuidi, is that you, sir?

SPEAKER_05 2:23:47

Yes, yes, sir. Thank you very much, Ambassador Emmanuel Mamba. And thank you very much to the listeners. Thank you, sir. I just want to say one thing that the problem that we have in Zambia, we are not truthful. The problem that we have in Zambia is trafokum yangavantumatui. And it is us the Zambians, it is actually you, the Zambians, who are making leaders not to unite and who are making leaders think they've already made it. I have followed the Ambassador Mwambazi programs. When there was uh Mr. Membe here, we're saying you are the one who's going to make it. Come 13th, we are going to vote for you. Tem President Ali Kalaba, same thing. Ah, when Nimweb Kalaba, come 13th, Nimweb. Tem KBF, same stories. Today we have uh Mate Bizolo. And I want to appeal to you leaders. When those munduwile, everybody, n mwoke, nwewle tulula. You are God given. You Zambians, stop playing with politics when those in government are playing Mungalato. It is time that Zambians start telling people the truth. You can't be. You and you, you become president, let this one become uh become uh running. But if you're going to be telling everybody who comes on this program, we was here. We are missing these people. Some of us wanted to be uh president, but one of the confusion, everybody has got to ego, they all think Navas Kakari and being supported by Zambia. You are misleading these leaders, and at the end of the day, what is it? Can we stop this and before there's a window between now and not before finding of uh nomination? Can we be truthful? Zambia is so big. These issues of being on social media is not a deciding factor. The voters are in the peripherals, the voters are in the rural areas. Known from my experience with President Michael Saka, we used to win elections in the urban areas. We never used to go in the rural areas until we realize that why are we losing elections? Because of you people. That's why I said all the educated people are cowards and misleading people. Because when you come on this, you make people think they've already achieved their already state house. Stop it. What we need to do right now is to go in the rural areas, go on all the community radios, let the people in the rural areas see the mistakes of this government. Talking on Imanu, talking on radio physics, talking on life will not help you, will not help us. Those who want to be president, can you leave your comfort zones? Go in the rural areas, go there and talk to the people, tell them the mistakes of this government, tell them that being given one by three person block block, being given a police station, will not improve your living standards, your living standards. What we need to fight is the outpost of rubber. Now, you people, you are quite so honestly, what's anywhere, what anywhere, what you are the ones who are even messing up. These people believing uh I can't be uh deputy to this one because the people have already said it is me. This one comes, you say the same things I feel sorry for you.

SPEAKER_12 2:27:48

Yeah, before you go, let me take this uh opportunity that you are here. You are one of our senior leaders in our country, and like you are saying, every leader that has come here has uh pledged that they will work together with others, but unity has been elusive to we haven't seen the unity, and probably you've also taken opportunity to speak to them in your capacity as a senior leader of our country. Um, what would be your word to these opposition leaders and what do we need to do?

SPEAKER_05 2:28:22

People may not know that when I came out of prison, I called almost all the leaders ask them who I didn't call to try and call for unity and bring people together. But each all of them have got an ego, they just want to be president. They've come there to say, no, I'm prepared to work to cooperate with others, we are prepared to work together. Have you ever seen anybody who has said, no, me, I'm even prepared to work with this particular person. For instance, me, I'm prepared to work with Muslim Mundwile and my brother Mundwile Moffari that I can be running it. Have you ever heard somebody say me, I'm prepared to work with Makebi, Makebi, I'm ready to be. They want loop service to appear to the people of Zambia as if they are committed to the unity. They are not behind them, they've got their supporters who mislead them. And the whole thing is about positions. Now, if he's not president, what am I going to be? There's still time that people can unite. Unite in truth and in integrity. Even as individuals, we must weigh ourselves. Really, am I better than that person? Am I able to garner the votes throughout the country? Even if people are saying they are supporting me? Will I be able to gain uh uh uh uh votes in Shangombo? Will I be able to get uh uh votes in in Poracoso? Am I be able to get the votes in in Chilubi? Do a source for introspection on your own and you find the answers. So, Mwena Zambia, start for now, start suggesting that this is the one who should be the uh the the flag bearer, this should be the running met. Not to claim to what's every same level, no, you can be, you are the God chosen, we are praying for you. Come on, stop it and tell these leaders to be truthful about unity. Why is it that there's nobody who is saying, me, I'm ready to be running met or me, I'm ready to withdraw, so that this person can lead us. But they always want to tell you, we are ready to unite, I'm ready to engage others, and what you do behind closed doors is something different. You can't have 29 presidential 26 presidential candidates. We are all saying on the 10th I'll be president, on the 13th I'll be president. Tien mkashara mung. There are many positions in government, there are many constituencies now. There are two 26. Why can some of you decide to go in the constituencies? Where yourself am I worth to be voted by 26 constituencies? Or I can only be voted in one constituency. But the problem, like I've said, is you Zambiansumatui is not good. I thank you.

SPEAKER_12 2:31:34

Thank you very much. I was privileged to uh Honorable Shimbakamwidi just made an impromptu when I was about to close. And thank you, Honorable Shimbakamwidi, for those wise words to uh the presidential candidates. Um uh colour, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from. Now the phone is ringing. I guess people want to to to to contribute. Alo colour, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from. Thank you very much. Thank you, thank you. Hello, Cola, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution. Hello, yes, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_16 2:33:06

Um, I'm Kabemba, I'm calling from Lusaka.

SPEAKER_12 2:33:09

Kabemba, make your contributions.

SPEAKER_16 2:33:12

Yes, uh, I've heard what uh Rachin Bagamburi has said. Uh I feel it's also not being truthful because when um there was that convention, the the no-name uh convention where Macembi made the winner, he himself would have started with Bagulinda, no glanda to my check, fire. Then what he's saying, he's just sweeping uh around the bushes, not hitting the nail on his head. Why didn't he call out to say a youthful leader? Mundubire boy now could ever with the door fire. But he's but I become bad trying to like turn out. Of uh MZ Date. You should sit down with us a few fellow leaders. That's where fire by the Kubamovikana uh uh want a useful leader. So Bakambu knows what people want. Not if I want to go to the market, yes, we'll be praying for him. So even if we should know, we should just tell Bakam Bayshi tell Bakamu, Via Navakalava, Viaba Nabu Savucanda took a want to follow.

SPEAKER_12 2:34:45

Okay, Muyoko, please let's not insult our leaders. We can speak strongly, but let's not insult our leaders. Thank you. Hello, colour. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_28 2:35:13

I requa election, yeah, I was never before the unit. Uh, so to remain, weri, butungira maquet zuru, awa pita. Of the vestibamo, or varia cunsi. Festiva kucharo quebata maket Zuru.

SPEAKER_12 2:36:28

Thank you, Am Konkonge. Thank you. The phone is buzzing everywhere. I guess it's uh because of the remarks made by Honorable Chimba. People want to react to them. Let's quickly make your contribution such we can close quickly. Hello, caller, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_03 2:36:47

I think I'll remain anonymous.

SPEAKER_12 2:36:49

Anonymous, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_03 2:36:52

Yes, sir. I just uh wanted to pose some kind of a question. Maybe you can help us understand. Let's say uh uh Honorable Makebizulu and Honorable Brian Mondibile decide to run on one ticket. One of them is the in a flag bearer, and the other one is the running mate. And let's say two weeks down the line after the nomination, everything is done properly, it's accepted. But two weeks down the line, one of them is arrested for maybe the Munya page, or they're arrested for some comments they made on a phone call somewhere, and there's evidence and things not running away. And the other person who's arrested, they are they are thrown into jail and so on and so forth. Maybe the the government comes up with this non-day label thing. Okay, we're talking about HHE, who can steal a body and drag it around to Hannes Bay. So you probably can pull off something like that. So let's say it happens. Uh what will happen to the running mates or the the flag bearer who remains alone? Won't that ticket be lost? So, as we think about that question, I would suggest that unity in the opposition is not just about becoming the president and having other people follow you. Unity can actually just be getting all your followers to support this other person. You don't have to be on the ticket, or you don't have to be a flag bearer. You can unite for the sake of the country, it's not for the sake of your ambitions that you want to 21 to pursue this, so I should be there. No, you need it's for the sake of the country, not personal ambition. So maybe Ambassador can help answer that question.

SPEAKER_12 2:38:24

Thank you very much. Thank you. Alo Cola, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution. But nameless, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_15 2:38:36

Yeah, so my voice is a little bit housing. I just want to respond to um wili. I hope you you are there. All I can say, Member, I think the program is what you have. I want to ask you a question. Because we have said that you zap here, we are disleading us. We are sleeping. You are the opposition, you are disleading examples. If we are just individuals, if you come and tell us that is leading us.

SPEAKER_12 2:40:22

Thank you very much. Thank now the phones are buzzing everywhere, but let's get as many as quickly. Around please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_08 2:40:31

Ambassador Mwamba Sinyangani back again.

SPEAKER_12 2:40:34

Mr. Snap, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_08 2:40:36

We we respect our elders, and uh, our elders also should understand to say sometimes you need to have the guts. Walande Fishinka. You see, Ambassador Mwamba, I've followed you ever since you started EMV. And you are a person that is passionate for Zambia. And if I wish more Zambians were going to be like you. So for me, Bachimbakamwili, when he came here, he didn't give us a solution to the problem that we have, but he wanted to attack the current form of people that are behind the current uh incoming president of Zambia, Makebizulu. And that is where the problem we are having with our leaders are. If you look at the situation, because when the PF went for that convention and they elected Makebi Zulu, the same people have kept quiet. And I know why he called, because there's one important call out said, where is the stand for Bachishimba Kamwili and Diva given Lwinda? And then you gave him the chance to tell us where he's standing. But what he has done, he has just to show us, he has showed to us to say why we're in this confusion because certain people don't want to step back and offer that advice to the incoming leadership. I submit. Thank you, Ambassador Mamba.

SPEAKER_12 2:41:55

Thank you very much. Hello, Cola, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contributions quickly. Yes, Didi, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_16 2:42:10

But I could take a program, you know. Oh if I could program. Who does that? Instead, take a punch, the candy to one bassy. I'm thinking about it.

SPEAKER_12 2:44:57

Thank you, my sister. Let me I'm trying to get as many calls as possible. Thank you. Your point is very clear. Thank you. And maybe maybe it's time that Honorable Chimba came to the program. I'll speak to him after this program. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and who you're calling us from.

SPEAKER_17 2:45:12

Yes, good evening, Ambassador.

SPEAKER_12 2:45:14

Good evening.

SPEAKER_17 2:45:16

My name is Mrs. Anonmas from the AI Kingdom.

SPEAKER_12 2:45:19

Yes, Anonmas.

SPEAKER_17 2:45:21

Yes, Ambassador. Uh, I know you have so many phone calls coming in. I wanted to just say I think uh thank uh uh Honorable Makem Zulu, the president elect for PF Pamoze Alliance, who's going to be a front uh I mean a flag bearer for the uh resolution party. And I think we are all aware of what why we found ourselves here and like everybody that says and the model the the the the callers are stated for have also been prompted to call because of the work that can be accepted for. We all looked up to what can we do. We said you to accept it and say this is all the process we accept being important and you give good advice by the process. We accepted the data after no particle. We are all aware of where we find ourselves or where we are to do. If you're listening, if you're not listening, if I ever say down with the window, who are the active business, who left the PS we have to buy the act of this process where we are today. And say that yes, the whole convention and what was agreed. The way we came out to the ambassador, it's like to come and tell us the cabin to say, it's okay, and all that. And like the other lady said, we followed you, Ambassador. You've taken us through step by step. Remember when you used to bring these different presidential candidates on your platform, we would call, ask them questions, and we eventually ended up to where even Makeup came out also one of the best uh uh I think candidates. Remember, you had the three categories where we had the uh the presentation, the president callava, and we make. But then when we look at the overall, when so I know we we didn't come to the end of that. Nakebi Zulu came out uh the the the the number one more people who they wanted. Yes, right now he may say it's the on the platform of you that we chose the Nakebu, which is uh media or social media. But remember, uh Trump won his elections because of the social media TikTok. Maybe Bakamini is not aware of that, but I want to remind him to say Trump won elections because of the TikTok. So if you have a pleasure, yes, there are different um um uh uh I mean uh voters found in different platforms. There are those on the ground which we accept and agree to say his guidance is good, we'll look into that. But to come and just describe his brother, I actually thought he was going to say, Lamamba, I'm happy, my kebab has come, he has given me whatever status is uh uh statement he has given. Yes, I've not spoken since that no party convention. As a brother, I'm going to be supporting him like Ramaba Mumbiv said, as a person who should be giving us guidance of where we should go, not to come and discard his own brother like that. They are the ones who are actually confusing us voters, not us voters, if we are voters.

SPEAKER_12 2:49:05

No, I can see honorable honorable chimbakamburi scoring. Let me see if I can get him. Uh let me let me first let me get the score. Alocola, be quick because I want to get honorable chimbakamburi. I see we are scoring again. Alo caller.

SPEAKER_21 2:49:21

Thank you, uh Rooney.

SPEAKER_12 2:49:25

Make your contributions quickly so that I can rush and get Honorable Kamburi because I see we're scoring.

SPEAKER_21 2:49:31

All right, thank you. Uh, you know, nine book to contribute by the neighborhoods of Kamburi. Uh if after one election, yeah, what we expected to see about in the Pamu Bonsi. Um but tight papers, quiet. So tight soon with you about to share what is wood. But I'll phone back to Navakamu, you got to be a phone cobatu. I would love to work with you. Now given window phone.

SPEAKER_12 2:50:22

Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Um yeah, Honorable Shimbagambuidi came on the program and uh he made some remarks, and they've stared the new honestness, and I'm failing to even close the program. But Honorable Kambuidi is back on the program. Maybe we use the opportunity in case he was misunderstood to clarify.

SPEAKER_05 2:50:50

That is the problem with Zambians. In this case, the eight million Zambians. I never disparaged anybody. I never said what Makebi said was rubbish or anything. All I was saying that it is time that Zambians became truthful to the leaders by advising correctly. I have listened to your program, Ambassador Mwamba. I can even ask you a question. Is there any leader that has come there where the people have said no, what you are telling us is not correct and you are not the right leader? All the people that have come there, people have said you are the right leader, will support you, will support you. That's one point I raised. Secondly, I said the country is bigger than urban areas and is bigger than social media. The actual voters are in the rural areas. Let those who want to be president now take this opportunity to go on the rural area. This time we've got uh community radio stations and explain to the people what they want to do for the people and also explain the mistakes of this government. Somebody said Trump won by social media. Incorrect. All the social media in the UK, all the main media houses were saying Kamara Harris was ahead of Trump. What happened? Trump won. So don't mislead the people and please pay attention when people talk and give you advice. Me, I'm only giving you advice. And I don't want to dwell in the issues of what happened during the no party uh convention. Because if I say people mistake me and say I'm decampaigning certain people, I would rather keep quiet about it and leave it the way it is. Because if I talk about what happened during that no party convention, well, I don't know where it will end. I love my young brother Makebizul, I have nothing against him, but let's not get there to state why some of us have kept quiet about the no party, because we don't want to bring uh questions over the integrity of that election. So we'd rather just keep quiet and watch, and whoever is going to emerge uh victorious, we shall support it. So if people really want us to go into details and tell them what happened, and people must ask themselves why is it that all the people that participated have gone quiet? Why is it that all the people that have participated, alang and womtenge, there is nothing wrong with my young brother Makebi Zulu. I don't hate him, he's my young brother, even now. We talk. I'm talking about unity and being truthful as Zambians. Because tell me, Bamwamba, nanwaysapoabant correct. What you are saying is correct, what you are saying is correct. If you endeavor kum, young to umatwi. It's our endowment. Immediately you start telling people the truth. You wake out the truth with your land that is not workable. You wear with your land, if you know, feel workable. But once I'm level that everything that you are saying, if you are lambda feel right, very right, once very right, very right, we are not helping the other people who may not be able to differentiate sense from nonsense to make an informed decision that is going to help this country. And I think that is very good advice that I've given. And if my advice has not been taken well, I withdraw. And thank you very much.

SPEAKER_12 2:55:39

No, you don't withdraw. It's your opinion on people.

SPEAKER_05 2:55:51

I was insulted. There's a tribalist, it's a tribalist. There are some people say I'm with a prophet. Even now, I will speak to the truth and say. I did not disparage I did not disparate it as quite a very well excellent to tell people the truth. For the sake of impressions. Good night.

SPEAKER_12 2:56:22

Thank you very much. And I'm still extending an invitation to you, Honorable Shimbakambuili. You've been uh pledged to come here two, three times, but you haven't come. An extension, an extended invitation still remains. We want to wakwale some. I know all my phones are now buzzing because now you want a new debate around uh what Honorable Shimbakambuili has said. But I can offer my opinion over the three key issues that he has raised, and I can offer my opinion. He has offered his opinion, and here is my opinion. Let me start with the uh people that have come on this program and how you receive them, welcome them. Some even tell them that they should be president. There are two factors there. Number one, when, for example, I invite Sebastian Copland, there are people that love Sebastian Copland. And when they see an advert, they will tune in. And when I open the phone lines, they are likely going to call and say uh Sebastian Coplandi must be president. If I bring Dr. Fred Membe, similar. If I bring Harikalawa, if I bring Makebizur, if I bring even Shimba Kamwidi, there will be people that will tune in specifically because they respond and love those leaders. That is why out of 26 people have interviewed here, I conducted an opinion and three people came top. President Ichirema, President Harikarawa, and President Makebizul among the 26 that have uh interviewed. So they formed an opinion looking at the 26 that have been here. On social media, as a campaigner, I've always advised. And I gave an example in 2014 where the opposition newspapers, the post and um and uh what was the other newspaper? The post, I can't remember the other paper, and whether it was the National Mirror and another, were not for Edgar Lungo. And uh the state media, ZMBC Times, Daily Mail, were being led by the acting president, uh Dr. Guy Scott, who didn't particularly like Edgar Lungo. So we were closed out of the media space. You remember that's when my page even became became popular because I just used to use it for personal things. So in 2014, I migrated all communications for Edgar Lungo onto my page. We also formed his own personal page, he didn't have any Facebook page, and um we formed a new patriotic front page. Those are the measures we did. So we used social media to reach out to you. There were uh key radio stations that that we reached out to. I remember HFM and QFM who would come and carry out our activities live, but for massive pictures which you saw in 2014, which were pictures that were taken by Salim Henry and Chela Tukuta. You know, you would Chela Tukuta would move in my car to those rallies and we took those pictures. You saw the pictures were being posted on my page, okay? So I can vouch for social media that social media has great influence, and I saw it in 2014 elections. Let me come back to 2021 elections. President Ichreema faced a similar circumstance where he wasn't particularly present in the mainstream media Times Daily, ZNBC, and most of the radio stations. If there's anyone who used social media to his advantage and recognizing that young people use social media, it was president. In fact, many people would call him a Facebook president because social media and Facebook propelled him to that presidency. In this election 2026, I can tell you that the difference between background and social media, I can tell you that as a strategist and as an electoral expert and as a social media native, I've been on social media since 1997 when I opened my Facebook page. I can tell you that Paramavat background, rural areas, urban areas, they've been merged together. And here is evidence. Do you know the number of phones that are in Zambia? 24 million. How many Zambians are there? Zambians are around 20, 21 million, but the number of phones are 24 million, number of devices that exceed 27 million, that is iPads, phones, and computers. What is another propeller to the bridge between the urban rural areas, background and social media? Mobile money. Because nearly all of you have looked for a phone to give your mother, your father, your uncle that phone so that you can send them some small money. Mobile money has helped in the penetration of um of the rural areas. And most of those mobile devices, even if they do not have smartphones, they are not really smartphones, they are basically now the way a chip phone, even a 300 quadra phone, can access basic social media. And remember, there's what is called Facebook Lite, which is provided free of charge by both MTN and Airtel, where uh they may not download videos, they might not download pictures, but they may download uh texts and limited pictures. So the internet penetration used to be somewhere around 10, 14, 17 percent. It has exceeded to over 71 percent. So Mkalamboandi, Honorable Shibakam Wiland, I'm inviting you to come to this program. I'm going to speak to you. Those are matters you and I can discuss. Best I like, I know you love evidence. So I can give you Zikta reports, I can give you internet penetration reports, I can give you uh service providers' reports that can demonstrate that it would be folly to assume that the ground now is different from social media. I can begin to ask where are you calling me from? You hear that someone is calling me from Shangombo, from Kaputa, from Mansa, from Lundazi, from Solozi, from Winilunga. Why? Because the internet penetration has been extensive. I bemoan that the internet is extremely poor in rural areas. Most of them, the towers are still at 2G. But you also should remember that PF installed over 1,200 uh uh uh tower stations where at least every school and every chiefdom now can be reached. What will just be the difficulties? Can I reach them by Zamtel or ATEL or MTN? But the towers, government also helped in bridging the gap. Anyway, it's a story for another day. We want to wakalize some weapon to land at you. Uh nech pelenkurana cho chila chila na kain. Solekeni chila to usa. So let me take rest and God bless you. We're hosting Makebizulu, and I'm glad that Honorable Chimbakamwini made that phone call and stirred the pot for your debate. We can pick up the conversation maybe tomorrow on Monday. God bless you, and we will see you.