BANNING XAVIER CHUNGU, THREATS AGAINST DEMOCRACY

LIVE NOW;WE DISCUUS THE CANCELLATION LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY PRESIDENT XAVIER CHUNGU AND THE THREATS AGAINST FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS

Transcript

SPEAKER_35 1:02

We were speaking earlier, sir. You're talking about how you've actually been working close with the government the past few years, but your name hasn't been out there the way it was out there in the 90s. For the young ones, the Madama 2000s, you may not know the name Savior Trungo, but for those of us who in the 90s followed politics very closely, this is a name that was a household name. You followed politics closely in the 90s? Yes, I did. For civics and social studies, we had two. And Savior Trumbo was a name that was uh I think became even more popular in the early 2000s after the MMD. Um after FTJ left power in uh 2001. Ladies and gentlemen, it's good today. How are you doing, sir? Very well, thank you. Thank you so much. Like remember every face that you made.

SPEAKER_05 1:55

Somewhat um I've grown up to to remember a lot of things, and particularly about faces. Yeah. Um now that we're growing a little old, um, maybe we're having difficulties to remember uh the words or the names, but it's very difficult for me to forget what I've seen before.

SPEAKER_04 2:19

You know what's so interesting? Speaking about what you've just said, you know it's impossible for you to dream about somebody you've never seen. And it's like a random thing. Because your dreams speak from memory, right? Yeah. And your brain can manufacture and make up a face. So you've most likely seen that person in the supermarket, in traffic, your brain captures that image, files it, and those are the extras that you see in a dream.

SPEAKER_31 2:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:45

So anyway, so so so so with with that memory, is it is it was it part of the job, or was that just who you were?

SPEAKER_05 2:55

Um yes, uh uh I was born with um an elephant's memory with some capacity to to remember things, but when you get into some jobs, uh one of the trainings they give you is that uh you should remember the names of people, you should remember the faces of people, you should remember where you passed yesterday, uh, and also it helps you uh, like in my job, my former job, it helps you get through some little difficulties in case of the problem.

SPEAKER_35 3:32

Um, he's talking about his job, and for those who, like I mentioned earlier, I'm a two thousands who may not know the name Saviour Chungu. Mr. Chungu was the head director general of the Cyber Security Intelligence Service. Yes, the equivalent of uh CIA. Is that a chushu?

SPEAKER_05 3:48

Yeah, it's the equivalent of CIA uh Scotland Yard, right? It's a combination of CIA, FBI, and all the other institutions that we're gonna talk about the American system. In here, it is a combination of all those one as uh a system of intelligence. In the British system, which we adopted, it's both for in the what system? The British. British system, yeah. Right. We this is about MI5, MI6 coming together, and to some extent, even a certain component of the policing system that exists in the British um system today, which today for us is basically the police.

SPEAKER_04 4:27

This is gonna be a fun episode for a number of reasons. Kalinga, I would want to know more about you specifically. Yep, I wanna know about the role, the operations, the operation, the James Bond things of because the spying when I hear your job. I think of little pens with cameras in them. You notice me staring at this pen when I'm sitting down. Uh no, listen, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:55

Um, this is when we need to educate each other, especially communities in these countries like Zambia. Uh spying is a component of intelligence. Uh spying is an activity uh that is against another institution. Basically, you're talking about going out to other countries or to other institutions to check on them, learn about them. Check on them, yes, learn about them. But the system of intelligence in the general is about getting to have sufficient information from the people, uh, including, as you are saying, the spying, so that you as a country using your intelligence system can easily formulate that helps you to formulate a policy. Whether you're going to be looking at cost of living, whether you're going to start looking at uh the complaints from the people about insecurity, uh, whether you're going to look about the threats to your boundaries, country. This is a combination, that's what we call intelligence, huh? So spying is just a little component of intelligence.

SPEAKER_35 6:09

So of all your spy jobs, what was the most memorable thing that you've actually left the country to spy on other countries for the sake of your country for?

SPEAKER_05 6:18

I think my best um memorable time is when I was uh the director general intelligence. It gave me an opportunity to help the country uh appreciate. You know, this is a new government that has come into power, and probably they came in with ideas uh to arrest this one, to to put this one in prison, uh, to stop this, to remove that institution. So I was given a chance to run the institution, and I took advantage to make it clear to the new government that the changes they had in their political planning, uh, we're not the ones we're going to use uh to govern the people after changing from one party state to a multi-party system. So it was a challenge for me to start telling the new government they needed to accept people, so there was going to be a change of attitude, and changing attitudes of the people is very complex. Okay, I also needed to change the practicality of the intelligence in this country because uh historically those were there, I'm not sure about the two friends, but uh there used to be fears in homestead and communities, and people never spoke freely uh because they feared this system called the special branch. So having come from this background, uh was a practical officer, I lived with people, I enjoyed listening to what the people's concerns were. This was my best time to change the cons to change, you know, to accommodate the concerns of the public, and this is what I thought was going to help the government start to govern the country uh without causing uh fears or insecurities among the people of Zambia. So I went into changing the attitude of the system of intelligence in the country, and I made sure that it accommodated itself within the population, within the public. How did what sorry?

SPEAKER_35 8:36

I'm just trying to explain how we got to 1991 because a lot of websites actually cite you as one of the people who was very instrumental in changing this country from a one-party state to a multi-party democratic state. What was your role? How did you actually yeah, how did you make this happen? Because your name really pops up a lot when we're moving from one party to multi-party.

SPEAKER_05 9:01

Um, I was not practically involved with the movement for multi-party democracy. Okay, I was not a politician and actor at that moment, but I have been a student of politics for a long time, beginning from the times of the unique management. I was involved in a lot of things. I helped organize certain disciplines in the in the unique system. And when the time came when people expressed their wish for change, um, my biggest interest was to learn from the people which way they were driving uh this situation. Were they really serious to ask uh Dr. Kawanda to leave the office? And I proved that was almost like across the country.

SPEAKER_13 9:51

Uh as an officer, I took it to report correctly so that happy uh uh Africa Day, as we call it, but how a happy Africa Freedom Day, a day set up to remember that Africa was in shackles from slavery and colonialism, and now it was free. But what in what has emerged quickly across Africa is that we seem to have replaced our colonizers and our slave masters with our own colonizers and slave masters, wearing our own skin, speaking our own languages and coming from our own families who are oppressing our people, who are enslaving our people, giving them slave wages, making them unemployed and providing, while they steal billions of dollars and staff it abroad. So is Africa Freedom Day happy, happy to people that are not free anymore. In some cases, but this is the circumstances we find ourselves in, and we will overcome today's discussions is that for the first time the former ruling parties are not on the ballot. Unique, they are tactic, they've ensured that the presidential candidate who's a president, Trevor Mwamba, is not anywhere near the ballot. Unique is not on the ballot. MMD, remember they used Never Swumba to change it. The MMD members have protested, they've said the changes done at um regional societies are illegal. He himself, Never Swumba has gone into a park like Chabinga, where he takes a PF, it is in his pocket, then he stands on um uh on new P and D. Similarly, Never Swumba has not featured anyone anywhere. So the MMD is not on the ballot. Then the PF, you know the challenges of the PF. Again, they are not on the ballot. President Hagainde Chemai is determined that he is going to make new history where these parties die is giving, taking away the lifeline because election is a lifeline to renew yourself. He has taken that away. And then he has stopped. He has stopped FD. He has stopped the most part of the company in the election. That is already the second political party. And the third is not going to win. We are seen. Let me just take this call and I'll come back to you. Thank you very much. I just have to attend to some matters. A lot of people call me. Sometimes the calls are private, sometimes they are public. But when they are calling me insistently, I fear that maybe my volume is not okay, or maybe there's something that um I need to do. And um uh that's why please call only when I have opened the phone line. So that's what we are talking about. The people that have been banned. You need MMD PF for the first time, not on the program. And um uh I started with an audio done by Z Podcast. They have not given it to me. I need to exonerate them, don't go after Z Podcast. I found um that interview that has been distributed. I'm going to bring all the 14 candidates here, if they are willing to come and cover them, uh, and we know how to handle. So I started with Xavier Chung, who's liberal political, who's liberal party president, uh, who's been threatened, he's been cancelled, he gave two interviews, one to Z Podcast and the other one to Millennium TV with my young brother Anton McQuita, and the state banned those things. We saw uh our brother Webster Marido deny that he has nothing to do with the cancellation, but yet it was IBA that called for the footage. It was IBA that came to collect the footage from both Z podcast and Millennium. So, what is Webster Marido talking about? And the shock of all of it is Webster Marido built his name as a freedom, as uh an advocate for freedom for the for the media. And to see where the clothes of an oppressor, many of us can't believe it. So thank you. EMB will broadcast for you. Joseph Valefisa, Kuala Fileta, Pabwe, and um um uh there are various. I'm also very excited that there are various podcasts that have been made. I saw Biflow as a podcast. I talked about news diggers, which is dealing mostly with official um officials from government or quasi government institutions, um uh uh that podcast. There are many podcasts coming up, and I was excited to see one podcast from Augustin Nkoka, the US-based journalist, is also set up a sports um uh uh podcast, and he's you know, he's a feary, feary uh person of accountability that wants accountability in sports. Just listen to what Augustin Nkoka is doing. And after this program, um we are going to play after we finish this program and the phone calls, we'll leave Xavier Chungu's interview running. He is going to come on this platform, he's a presidential candidate, is allowed to. And um uh there are many presidents. Jakob Zuma was head of the intelligence uh for the ANC. Uh you know Putin, you know, uh uh Russia's president is from the the intelligence, he was head of the intelligence. You know George Bush, the father to George Bush Jr. George Bush senior George H.W. uh Bush headed the intelligence here in the US and became president. There's nothing sinister about it. Even when Mr. Chungu comes here, he's going to discuss why he wants to lead this country, why he set up a political party, he's going to discuss the the proposed solution he has for our country as an opposition leader. He's not going to come here and discuss operations of the intelligence. Who does that? I've never brought, for example, when Makebizulu comes here, he doesn't come to explain the law, he comes as a political leader. When Mundwile comes here, my my my brother, citizen first president, you know, he nearly became a priest, he was a priesthood for eight years. He doesn't come here and explain the role of the priest. What our background does is merely to inform our opinions about the issues of our country. So Zebia Chungu has incisive uh views, informed by his former job. That's all it can do. Even if we bring this President Hakainde H Lema here for a program, we are not going to discuss his role as an auditor at uh Grand Thornton. How did he do it? What no? He comes on the program because he has solutions to the country. So everything they are doing about um Ezekiel is totally unfair. He's a presidential candidate, and you can't cancel a presidential candidate. He has a right to speak, he has a right to uh to explain to us why he thinks he could be a leader, an alternative to President Hakaine H Lemu. And we should see if he really truly has uh a solution. You can't stop such a man. Why? No one comes to discuss their previous roles. Their previous roles merely inform your worldview, your perspective of whether you are a good leader or not. It doesn't in any way uh stop you. Uh one just wait. You I'll take your calls after I have uh invited the calls. So let's listen to the new podcast by by uh Augustin. Let's look at it by Augustine is uh very, very Focused on issues regarding sports. You know, he was very instrumental, a strong voice against uh bringing uh Kamanga down, and yeah, he's totally dissatisfied with Keith Mwemba. He's so shocked that a young man like Keith Mwemba is engaged in tribalism. Because two mm nobody fear tribalism fear, but the kind of tribalism that Keith Mwemba is engaged in, and Augustine is providing uh uh uh uh uh accountability there. Also the theft and corruption, the match fixing that is going on in that area. I mentioned this so that you have an area of people to watch, so that your opinion is totally informed.

SPEAKER_11 22:46

Look at uh the deceptive way you were handling the the annual general meeting. There are claims that there was a vote of no confidence. Some people were plotting a vote of no confidence. Who was plotting a vote of no confidence against you? If we wanted to do it, like we will do it now. Pass a vote of no confidence in your leadership. We can do it. Okay, we can do it. Because you are not inspiring confidence in Zambian football. We are worried, we are concerned, we are the direction, what we did. I owe the Zambian people an apology for supporting a candidate like you. Even when I was warned by colleagues that this one is a danger to Zambian football, I owe them an apology. When I've said that you have got no direction, you are a disaster. You can't make decisions. But Zamian football will not be left to ruin in your hands. We supported you believing that you're going to be a man who's accountable. You are accusing wrong people of giving me information. You're accusing wrong people of leaking information from footballers. Leave Tsangapuri out of your rubbish, leave Tsengapuri out of your nonsense, leave Tsangapuri out of your incompetence. It was not his fault that I floated his name as general secretary, it was my fault. I feel bad that I floated his name. He had already won an election. Why should you scandalize him? Why should you scandalize him? You are a lawyer who can't read the constitution. You cannot read the constitution, you cannot even interpret your own law. Come on, man. You think buying people is love, you think buying people is loyalty. Corruption is not loyalty. Don't bring and breed of corruption to football. If you are going to continue with your corruption, if you are going to continue with your corruption, I'll report you to FIFA. If you are going to continue with your magic fixing, I'll report you to FIFA. Okay? And Luca Mando was almost nailing you for much fixing. Okay? There is a dunning report about you on match fixing. Be careful, Bana. Be careful. Do not ask for a fight with some of us. Do not ask for a fight. We fear death and not defeat. I'm warning you. I'm saying Zambian football does not belong to you. It does not belong to a region, it belongs to all of us. You're not the only one who funded the removal of Andrew Kamanga. We all funded the removal of Andro Kamanga. Some of us did not get money from anyone. We raised money for ourselves. You got money from different people. We got money from our own sweat. To fund the removal of Androcamanga. Do not destroy Zambian football with corruption. Go to the tribalism. You appoint a tonga. You again appoint another donga. What kind of nonsense is that? Look at how many tongues are football houses. Look at how many you've fired since you came. And look at how many you've maintained. Is that Zambian football? No, no, no, no. That's not what we're Zambian football belongs to every Zamian, every child in Caputa, every child in Shangombo, every child in Chaguma, every child in Isoka, every child in Nakonde. Zambian football belongs to them. Zambian football does not belong to you, it doesn't belong to you alone. It doesn't belong to your region. You're appointing Tongas only. Why? Why are you appointing Tongas only? We didn't support you. We didn't vote for you to be appointing your fellow relatives into into positions at football house. Can you desist doing that? Zamian football belongs to Lundas, it belongs to Lumbas, it belongs to members, it belongs to chambers, it belongs to monies. Can you stop Tonga appointment at football house?

SPEAKER_13 28:21

Thank you. You can watch that on um Augustine Mukoka. He has um uh a podcast called Final Wis One. There's something happening at Father House is trying to bring attention to all of you, and you can follow him. Uh, I noticed in the comments that you were saying, echo, echo, echo. Just tell me if the echo has disappeared and if the volume is far better. Please tell me if the echo has disappeared, if the volume is okay. We want to have crisp volume. The investment done in equipment must show it, shouldn't be takataka broadcast. So just tell me in the comments if the volume is far better than it was before I came out. Um yeah, just just tell me quickly if uh the volume is okay. I want to check if the volume is okay so that we proceed. People are saying there is echo, there is echo. Just let me know if the volume is much better and share the broadcast. Today we are discussing the threats against uh uh uh free and fair elections. You can see they've already cancelled a presidential candidate. He gave two interviews, and both interviews have been banned by the state. And they're trying to use the excuses of sentiment that uh Xavier Chungu was um was former director general and therefore he can't come on. He will speak, he's a presidential candidate, he must speak, and he's not the first one. And when did Xavier Chungu leave the office? 25 years ago. Even the official secrets acts leave secrets up to 25 years. So he's past the threshold of 25 years. And I don't think that you'll be he'll be naive to come to the people of Zambia to discuss the work of the intelligence. He's so narrow in the perspective of our country. He's a presidential candidate. He's going to discuss uh what he proposes will be a good solution to the country. His former role as director general of the intelligence merely informs his opinion. That's all our background does. For me, as a former diplomat, I can speak very well on foreign policy and what Zambia needs to do. As a journalist, I can, you've seen what I'm doing with my podcast. We can use our trainings, our skills, and our experiences to fashion and influence the country in a certain way. But that's all it can do. Our background, whether it's education, whether it's work, whether it's experience, can only inform a cause, especially for a politician. And Xavier Chungun be the first former uh uh uh uh director general of intelligence or head of intelligence who joins politics. There are many of them. Pokagame was the head of intelligence. He actually was the director general of the intelligence in Uganda, if you do not remember. You know, Putin, George Bush, Jacob Zuma, and many others. So uh the the the fear by the intelligence is totally, totally unfounded. They've banned political parties. Seven political parties are not participating in these elections. Among them, the three key former ruling parties have been knocked out. You need MMD and Patriotic Front. And they've banned. Can you imagine what they did to Sean Tembo and Augustine Chandra Kato? Unless you've come to collect tithe, you don't belong here. How cruel can you be? How you you you even do it with mockery that your political party is um is is a church organization. And when pushed to the corner, you say no, the changes were done at an internet cafe in town, because this is where the IP address is taking us to. That in itself then invalidates the changes. Because how can someone sitting at an internet cafe in town uh make changes to official records held and in the custody of government and under the Ministry of Home Affairs? How can that be? That in itself, when they found that the records were changed at an internet cafe from town, that is dealt with as hacking a criminal offense for registrar societies. They've accepted the changes that were done from an internet cafe in town. What amangalo? Tepala when they illegally recruited 4,000 policemen, you push them to the war. We have a database. Come on, come on. Those are the matters we are discussing. We'll be airing the full interview of uh Xavier Chungu, and we hope he will come himself.

SPEAKER_04 33:20

But it's very difficult for me to forget what I've seen before. You know what's so interesting, speaking of what you've just said. Um you know it's impossible for you to dream about somebody you've never seen. Right? Yeah. And your brain can manufacture and make up a face. Most likely seeing the person in the supermarket, in traffic, your brain captures that image of houses, and those are the objects that you see in a dream.

SPEAKER_31 33:51

No.

SPEAKER_04 33:52

So with with that memory, is it is it was it part of the job, or was that just who you were?

SPEAKER_05 34:01

Um yes, uh uh I was born with um elephant memory, with some capacity to remember things, but when you get into some jobs, uh one of the trainings they give you is that uh you should remember the names of people, you should remember the faces of people, you should remember when you passed yesterday, uh, and also it helped you uh like in my job, my former job, it helps you get through some little difficulties in case of the problem.

SPEAKER_35 34:38

Um, he's talking about his job, and for those who like I mentioned in the 2000s who may not know the name Sabia Chungu. Mr. Tungu was the head director general of the Zambia Security Intelligence Service, the equivalent of uh uh judge, right?

SPEAKER_05 34:59

It's a combination of all the other institutions that you want to talk about, the American system. It is a combination of followers one as uh system of intelligence. In the British system which we adopted, it's both for the what system? The British British system. Yeah, right. We this is about MI5, MI6 coming together, and to some extent, even a certain component of the policing system that exists in the British um system today, which today for us is the best calling the police.

SPEAKER_04 35:34

This is gonna be a fun episode for a number of reasons. Colleague, I would want to know more about you specifically. Yep, I don't want to know about the role, the operations, the operation James Bond things of because of the definition. I when I hear your job, I think of little pens with cameras in them. You know what is playing the food? Uh-uh. Uh no, listen, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:02

Um this is when we need to educate each other, especially communities in these countries like Zambia. Uh spying is a component of intelligence. Uh spying is an activity uh that is against another institution. Basically, we're talking about going out to other countries or to other institutions to check on them, learn about them, check on them, yes, learn about them. But the system of intelligence in the general is about getting to have sufficient information from the people, uh, including as you were saying, Spying, so that you as a country using your intelligence system can easily formulate that helps to look to formulate the policy. Whether you're going to be looking at cost of living, whether you're going to start looking at uh the complaints from the people about insecurity, uh, whether you're going to look about the threat to your boundaries, the country. This is a communication that's what we call intelligence, huh? So spying is just a little component of intelligence.

SPEAKER_35 37:16

Of all your spy jobs, what was the most memorable thing that you've actually left the country to spy on other countries for the sake of your country for?

SPEAKER_05 37:25

I think my best um memorable time is when I was uh the director general of intelligence. It gave me an opportunity to help the country. Uh thank you very much.

SPEAKER_13 37:39

Thank you very much. Um, we are discussing those four key issues. One, they banned uh former ruling parties, they are not among uh for the first time in the last sixty years. The the last time this happened was in 1973 when they banned UPP uh PP and ANC in 1973 when we reverted when we we became a one-party state. That's the last time it for the 17 years Bakawunda Vale Mina Nechule. But following the uh multi-party democracy in 1991, various political parties have always participated in elections. And but for the first time, the former ruling party, and all this is attributable, attributable to President Hakainde Hilema because he's the one that has been engineering with Levingoma all these issues, and um you cannot in any way uh stop participation of political parties among the people that have been banned, uh, and totally unfairly so, is that uh is that of Sean Tembo and Chandakatotobe? That ticket should be reinstated because it was not a fault of Sean Tembo, not that he didn't file any returns or that he was up to date. Their system was allegedly hacked by someone sitting at an internet cafe. So, how is that a problem of Sean Tembo and Chandakatototobe? That ticket must be reinstated. The changes that were made to the records are illegal. These are documents that were in government custody. So reinstate them on the ballot. Why? Because they had targeted Brian Munduwile. They thought he would use, first they tinkered with FDD, and then they realized he gets along with Sean Tembo. And Sean Tembo, even when they were in Tonse, was the first one to uh uh uh uh recommend and endorse Brian Munduwile. So maybe they will use his political party. And with those those uncertainities, intelligence Taiwanba, if they had correct intelligence, they would have known that Brian Mundwile had a special purpose vehicle. But intelligence, yes, we are before. Kaiwa dipanga parallel intelligence house. So now we are intelligence, why kalafi, but it's a few. And so they had no idea. They begin to speculate, working out of speculations and look at the embarrassment. So you ban FDD and you ban Sean Tembo's political party, all the fears that Bran Mundwile would file on it. And you are you had so much inadequate information as as state outs. You had no idea that Bran had his own special purpose vehicle. Come on. What country are we running, really? What country and how many decisions are being made like that from inadequate or unavailable information, mere but speculations. So my appeal is that the ticket of Chandra Gatotowe and Augustine and Sean Tembo must be reinstated, they must be allowed to file for one simple reason. The changes that were made to the records are not even their own. If you have PF Kumwe to your mcoat, you need Wadi Muk by MMG, you can find excuses. But if there is any dustard act, utter criminal act is what was done to Sean Tembo's political party. And government has a duty, I think, to come clean and just allow them on the ballot what they've done to Sean Tembo and uh and Chandaka is totally unacceptable. And now they're trying to cancel, censor, banal uh party president, savia chung, savia Franklin Chungu. Come on. We are a democracy. We profess to be a democracy. Even when we know you're not running free and fair elections, at least you can pretend that you are running free and fair elections. I'll be opening the phone lines. Um someone says, Mamba, read the last uh the 14. Okay, I'll read the 14 that you've so far successfully filed in their nominations and were accepted by ECZ. We are waiting for that seven-day period of um uh of confirmation if there is any petition or anything. After that, ECZ on the 30th will announce the final list. Um, so let me play something so that we I look for that list. I've compiled it of the 14, I read it out to you. Oh, I'm told the volume is now very clear. Thank you very much. That's the purpose of uh live broadcast. Some things can go wrong, but it's the feedback you give us quickly that we go and correct the matter. I'll be opening the phone lines, but I've two duties to do. IBA uh Director General Webster Malido, who have already expressed um disappointment and sadness for a nice young, professional young man and things that he's been doing. Remember all his statements about the late President Edgar Chagolungu? He praised a guy that went to purport that uh President, you know, the guy gave an interview to Crown TV, and he purported that President uh Edgar Lungu was alive or he was killed by drug dealers, or but it was a terrible interview, extremely offensive. Webster wrote a letter of congratulations to Crown TV that the program was professional and uh come on, that program should not have aired. That young man belongs to prison with the allegations he was making against a late president, defaming uh a person who has died, making false, dangerous allegations against a former president. Webster Marido wrote a letter congratulating uh uh uh uh Crown TV for that. And you've seen subsequent uh uh he's always offside. And this is a very distinguished gentleman, other than that, you know, um uh he worked at the post as an editor. He headed the a freedom, a press freedom committee. And he was a face of press freedom in Zambia, fighting for freedoms in Zambia. He's given an opportunity and he does reverse, destroys his own career just in a few months. So today he held another press conference, he's again threatening that we shouldn't hold political opinions, we shouldn't uh conduct opinion polls of who will win the presidency, we shouldn't speculate. Come on, Webster, come on. How do how do countries run political, I mean, uh uh elections? Who stops opinions? Our people know who they will vote for. So you you can't ban all these things. You you can't be this oppressive. And listen to him. Let me listen to Webster here.

SPEAKER_08 47:17

Agenda that was shared in terms of uh this morning's media engagement. We are here today to officially announce uh the election uh coverage guidelines uh that um have been issued to all broadcast stations uh in Zambia. So to start with, um I wanted to start by saying that we, as the independent broadcasting authority, IBA, have issued election coverage guidelines to promote fair, balanced, accurate, and responsible broadcasting ahead of the 2026 general elections, which are scheduled for August this year. These guidelines have been developed to provide practical direction to broadcasters in the coverage of elections and election-related matters. This is to ensure that we continue to strengthen professionalism, fairness, and ethical conduct during the electoral process. Further, the guidelines provide greater clarity on the responsibilities of broadcasters during the electoral period, and they also seek to strengthen compliance within broadcasting with broadcasting standards. The election coverage guidelines cover the following key areas. Number one, fair and balanced election reporting to ensure equitable and impartial coverage of all political parties and candidates. Number two, equitable allocation of airtime requiring broadcast stations to divide available advertising time on an equitable basis to ensure fair access for political parties and candidates during campaigns. Number three, the conduct of political interviews and debates to promote fairness, professionalism, and impartiality by broadcasters. Number four, broadcasting of opinion polls to ensure disclosure of sources, sponsors, sample sizes and other relevant information that go with the political opinion polls. Number five, coverage of polling day, including the prohibition of campaign interviews for political parties or independent candidates, and the prediction of election results on polling day. Number six, the announcement of election results based only on verified and officially confirmed information. And lastly, number seven, accomplice handling procedures requiring broadcasting stations to political interviews and debates to promote fairness, professionalism, and impartiality by broadcasters. Number four, broadcasting of opinion polls to ensure disclosure of sources, sponsors, sample sizes and other relevant information that go with political opinion polls. Number five, coverage of polling day, including the prohibition of campaign interviews for political parties or independent candidates, and the prediction of election results on polling day. Number six, the announcement of election results based only on verified and officially confirmed information.

SPEAKER_13 51:39

So he's doing two things, two very key things. There will be no PVT because he's saying only results that are issued by ECZ should be published. Come on. PVT allowed to, you are allowed to pronounce. These are just uh parallel voter tabulation. They give you an indication of who's leading and who's where. And they also act as a vote protection mechanism in the event that you want to change results. Because the results issued at the polling station, and my elections in Mozambia, Nipa polling station, and uh agents are allowed to sign and take a picture of that. In fact, the law says you put a picture outside the wall when you you finish the results, and PVTs are based on that. Of course, we know the official records is by ECZ. So he's banning media from publishing parallel voter tabulated results and is banning opinion pose essentially by the guidelines that he set up. And I hope that the media will take Webster Marido and IBA to court because most of the things he's saying there are not even constitutional. I don't know where he's drawn the guidelines from. Do not allow him to uh uh to sanitize the theft of the of elections. He's saying they want to promote transparency. He's allowing to promote transparency by stifling voices, by ah, come on. It's extremely, extremely offensive. And I'm not sure. I'm very offended because this was a face of press freedom. And he's given an opportunity. I think he's keen to deliver to each lemon and abuse IBA, the independent broadcasting authority, the amendment to ZMBC Act, and the freedom of information, access to information. These were laws to transform our country into a democratic state, not into a further oppressive state. No. So what Web Samarido need is doing has to be called out. And I hope that the media associations will take him to court. The pronouncements he's making are totally illegal and not founded in law. Many of the things that have been done, IBA, I mean uh Bill 7, you know, is illegal, the Electro Process Act, you know, the Gathering Bills Act, all these things are illegal. And here, because you have community radio stations in every district, so IBA is going to be a very strong voice to stifle the voice of our candidates, the voice of our people. IBA is going to be used to threaten licenses of institutions. Like we saw, where the Millennium TV are these two gentlemen who were petitioning the results, I mean the election of President Hakainde Ichilema. They said his mandate has expired. Or they came heavy. All they did is carry an interview of someone who was claiming that he's a founder member of the UPND. What treason was that? The guy is a legitimate member of the UPND. He comes out and says their mandate has expired. He did nothing wrong. You came very heavy-handed on Millennium TV. Same with the interview by Sevier Chungu. And now here you are issuing guidelines that there should be no PVT. You are issuing guidelines that there should be no opinion pose because you're saying there should be disclosures to who? For what? Who does that? An opinion is a mere opinion. I can air my opinion. You have your opinion. And my opinion doesn't become fact. So uh uh Webster Marido is out of line and he has to be called for what he's doing. Whatever he's doing is outside the law and he must be called out. The lines are open. Oh, let me read. You said I read the the candidate that have successfully filed. Uh, President Haka Inde Ichleam under UPND. There was speculation that uh our Fiashua never smumba brown envelope, what inokwa running mate. Uh Ichlema has been doing that. Uh I remember Mao Sampa said, we mun to you. I did Twitter, we were five running mates. There was GBM, there was Kanishaus Banda, there was Felix Mtati, there was Mao Sampa. Was that why she wrote my envelopes? And on that day we didn't know who was going to be a running mate. For Ichilema, that's his game. So whenever Swumbao come to the game. WKM Talena Lumango is a running mate. Citizen First, uh, Honorable Harikalaba, who's leading the Orange Alliance um uh pact, is as fouled in with Moses Mawere as one of the constituent members of the Orange Alliance as running mate. We have Brian Mundwile under the National Reconciliation Party for Unity and Prosperity. Brian Mundwile is leading Tonse Alliance, which has come together with PF Pamosi Alliance, and the PF Pamosi Alliance leader, um Makebizulu, is a running mate. We have uh Professor Daniel Chibalepule. This was surprised because he's a member of uh the Tonse Alliance under CDP has found, and he has filed the running mate. Is Bet Mushala, former permanent secretary and son, to the famous Mushala that you read about. Uh but the son is a good son, he has a very nice story, even about his early days with his father, and he's a banker, professional banker, and he's been an administrator. So Beth Mushala is a running mate to uh Daniel Chuwalepule. Akim Antonin Jovu, the young man from DU, uh, had Miriam Banda as running mate. Ritual Siamnen, a former defense minister and a new focus party, as uh Nicholas Banda as running mate. Xavier Franklin Chungu, the one we've been discussing today, the running mate, is Gerald Dingiswayo Zulu. Reverend Dr. Given Katuta, uh our independent candidate and only woman in this race, as John Yurenda as running mate. Dr. Brian Mushimba is in an alliance, is running a political party called OOP Organization of Political Parties, OOP. And he has picked Andyford Maele, one of the members, a member alliance, um, as is running mate. Andyford Banda has been running as a presidential candidate in 2026 and 2021. It's good for him to subordinate his interests here, and he's given his dear brother, Dr. Bran Mishimba, as running mate. Kelvin Fuwebaria from Zambia Must Prosper is gone in as Miunakatolo. The two are lawyers like Bran Mundwile and Makebizulu. Mio Nakatolo is uh uh the running mate to Kelvin Waria. We have Howard Kunda, Zawapa, Zambia Wake U Party, and uh he has a young lady, Chipo Miova, as the running mate, Dr. Fred Membe, who's leading the People's Pact, and is president of the Socialist Party with the running mate, Dorica Banda, Dr. Richard Silumbe, leadership uh forum, and uh Dr. Richard Silumbe has got Kamwenesha, Kamuenesha Kaela as running mate. Then we have given chancer from uh the MME, the movement for economic uh emancipation, and as the running mate, Harrison Che with the guy that came in uh uh in in a worker's suit, workers suit overalls, overalls as we call them, like you see them in the EFF. They are red, but here Harrison Che was wearing um the blue one. PPU Z you remember they were cancelled, and we'll be opening the phone lines now. You see the topics we are discussing. Let me hear from you.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:21

Of political interviews and debates to promote fairness, professionalism, and impartiality by broadcasters. Number four, broadcasting of opinion polls to ensure disclosure of sources, sponsors, sample sizes, and other relevant information uh that go with the there.

SPEAKER_13 1:00:47

When he says disclosure of sources, one of the sacred duties of a journalist is we never disclose the source if the source wishes to remain anonymous. So what Web Samarido is doing there is to ban opinion polls, because no person will come to give their opinion, that they will not vote for Hichilema, they will vote for B. And they then their opinion and their details should be disclosed. No one then will offer such an opinion. So that that particular rule that uh Webster Marido is is reading, is ensuring that there will be no opinion poor. I can tell you one of the sacred duties for any journalist who even go to prison is that we can never disclose our sources. If our sources said, don't disclose my name, but I'll give you information. It's one of the sacred duties of a journalist. But Webster Marido, who himself is a very senior journalist in our country, wants you to disclose when an opinion poll is done, you should file to IBA and disclose the sources of those that gave that opinion. Come on. Not even Kawunda under one participate used to do that.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:58

Uh political opinion polls. Number five, coverage of political interviews and debates to promote fairness, professionalism, and impartiality by broadcasters. Number four, broadcasting of opinion polls to ensure disclosure of sources, sponsors, sample sizes, and other relevant information that go with the political opinion polls. Number five, coverage of polling day, including the prohibition of campaign interviews for political parties or independent candidates, and the prediction of election results.

SPEAKER_13 1:02:51

I think uh Webster needs a special program. Thank you, Movantwa Kwale. Salesko, uh, my first caller. Uh, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and give us your contribution.

SPEAKER_19 1:03:05

Thank you. My name is Uncle Jay.

SPEAKER_13 1:03:08

The famous Uncle Jay, Uncle Jay, our only uncle on the program. Make your contribution, my brother.

SPEAKER_19 1:03:13

Thank you, the uncle of the country. Um it's become very clear that um, you know, UPN is desperate. This government has actually smelled um they are smelling defeat because everything obtaining on the ground is indicating to that fact that this ago, whether they like it or not. So these kind of intimidations using the institutions intimidate the people, it will not work. People are already deciding opinion polls work for them. They have opinion polls that nobody stops them from doing opinion police. It's an opinion that people have to give, and you should never, never cut people from doing such things. So it's good, but in this era, you cannot prevent Facebook from doing so. So the more they do that, the more people are actually going to do that because we know that this is affecting them, it is showing their weakness, it has shown that this this year it is their period. So this what we're trying to do will not work for Sapiens. Sandy has every time they've decided, they always prepare. But this year we decided we do not want dictator, we do not want a government that does not care for the people. We do not want a government that is carrying people necessarily for no reason. A government that is taking the rights of people away. We do not want people to decide what people do, they will not stop using the point. I think thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_13 1:05:08

The line is open, please go.

SPEAKER_21 1:05:18

Thank you very much, my own.

SPEAKER_13 1:05:20

Yes, you are.

SPEAKER_21 1:06:00

Mercy himself like that. People more special civil servants must understand that UPN Dichikumiko Michamku. UPND is simply a shell of itself. You can see how they are slaughtering each other, how they are beating each other. The party is rotting from inside. So what we are saying is that elections like you write observed are determined on a polling station. Now you have agents who signs the results, who comes and signs. And it is required by law that that post is posted outside. That is what we rely on to conduct voter tabulation. We are appealing to Thomson President Blanimundu, the Saviour, the ballet of this country. And of course, Makebizolo. We are relying on you to ensure that you put up a proper system. Insuman formulate a proper think tank. You have great blames there. I can see that you are surrounded with the crazy the critical man Zimba. You have only pulled the first one. So what we are saying is that in humanity at every polling station, there are two polling agents. Because this man is desperate. This man believes in micromanaging everything. Right now, he's not paying attention to anything. Even these statements that are coming from IBM. It could be him who has written that and given him to go and read. That is how he works. We have a person who has taken the president's so personal. Zambia shouldn't have reached it at this stage. The man feels that he must be able to manage everything. It is him who must decide everything. That's why people are saying UPND is a chaotic organization. Because see, they make decisions, he flashes all the decisions, he puts his own people. So what we are saying is that the onus now is on us, the people, to ensure that the vote is protected, and the onus is also on the this vehicle. We are appealing to all Zambians, all the donors to the insumanity. This project is supported to the youth. This project of Branimundubire must be supported to the health by all. All the people in the diaspora there, all the people in the diaspora, we are appealing to you to say, please. God has given us direction. God has given us a savior. Let's ensure that we support this project.

SPEAKER_13 1:09:19

Thank you, my brother.

SPEAKER_21 1:09:21

My brother, I'll be calling back.

SPEAKER_13 1:09:23

Thank you.

SPEAKER_21 1:09:23

I'll be calling back.

SPEAKER_13 1:09:24

Hello, colour. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution. Uh oh. Just a minute, just a minute. Let me yeah. Hello, caller. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:52

Good evening, Ambassador Imaguamwamba. My name is Jabo Tangwe Twajiriinga.

SPEAKER_13 1:09:57

Ah, my dear brother, how are you?

SPEAKER_06 1:09:59

Um, I'm not fine with the new uh with what has happened uh today uh regarding the IBA.

SPEAKER_13 1:10:08

Make your contribution.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:10

My contribution is this. The IBA, I always saw this coming. If you remember, Ambassador, in 2023, when uh the conversation podcast had just uh launched your podcast, the IBA at some point, I remember very well, because I too had a podcast, but it wasn't related to politics. We were once told that we may need to have we may need to register our podcasts to the IBA. They pulled the from there. Then uh last year they introduced us the journalism deal, if you remember. And uh I uh uh um media uh uh institutions denied, so now they bring us this. But here is the situation. You know, every uh the every ingredient of a dictator requires that the people should not have opinions, the people should not be able to speak, and they shouldn't also be able to receive information from independent uh media houses. What our Webster has done today is very unconstitutional, it's not backed by any law. And I will say this, I'll borrow a quote, I don't remember where I read it, that says when leaders create stupid rules, it is up to the people to decide whether they should follow those stupid rules. So, IOMA rules, what the IBA and the UPND are trying to do is they want to single source. We should only have one source of information, and that's a place where they can be able to control the narrative, and everybody should feed into that. They don't want independent media houses because they understand that if you allow the independents, they may tell a different story. And when they tell a different story, it won't be from the narrative, or it will uh it will it will uh steer uh stray away from the narrative that they wish to create. Otherwise, Ambassador, in AIM calling on all the media institutions to actually press charges and take the IBA to court after all by Webster, that list he had is a sham. It's not backed by the law. But the UPND have no regards for the law. I I don't um I don't think they even respect our constitution or anything of that nature. I believe we shouldn't follow this. How can they be now telling me it's a crime for me to have an opinion or to uh post an opinion online where people can actually vote if my opinion is right or wrong? That is not okay. And we, the Zambian people, would be very silly for us to follow those stupid laws these people are bringing. In fact, it's not even a law, it's a it's it's a rigid rule that uh is just basically exposing the UPND of their dictatorial tendencies. Otherwise, that's my submission, ambassador.

SPEAKER_13 1:13:00

Thank you, my dear brother. Thank you, thank you, my my brother. Thank you. That was Chabota. Hello, Cola, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution. Hello? Oh, just a minute, just a minute, my brother. Where my headsets, I think uh I need to allocala, please tell tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_17 1:13:35

Okay, due to the nature of uh me, you could but um yeah, I think we'll keep it quiet.

SPEAKER_13 1:13:45

Okay, and one must make your contribution.

SPEAKER_17 1:13:48

Yes, you know you know you uh you can this level back up. You know, yeah, but discuss something wrong, you know. Again, one more my brother to the and I don't know how we're going to do it, but one way or another we shall achieve, and I'm sure I'm some people now is one is a medium second second.

SPEAKER_13 1:14:30

Thank you, my brother. Thank you.

SPEAKER_17 1:14:31

Yes, that was hero. You know where is this country going to? No, we are here.

SPEAKER_30 1:14:47

Thank you.

SPEAKER_13 1:14:48

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_22 1:15:03

Good evening, Ambassador. Hello, Mamkong, my bonben, you know, it's time to have to land your name. But by a U PNG, I shouldn't have marriage. So I think I'm sure what we're doing. Why do you want to save that too? Protection, my mom, but I want to show my ballot program protection. But any more.

SPEAKER_13 1:17:48

Thank you very much. Um konge. Yeah, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_18 1:18:27

But I'll be to I'll I'll try to be spiritual. I'll go back to the Bible where she remembers very well the time of Moses when he was born. The king had given a directive that every male child should be should be killed. But it so happened that the same king, Moses was raised in his house, his daughter raised a child. This is when the will of God um takes charge, no matter what man can do, is to find a way. That does not mean we should be comfortable as uh people that align ourselves or support the opposition. I'm just saying is that hey, God is so supreme than anyone else. So, what is this? This is what man, this is what this man is doing right now to give this directive or that he um uh people should not bring the opinion. Ambassador, your platform today plays a very big role. If you remember not long ago, there was a polls which were happening every Wednesday and then and Friday, if I'm not mistaken. There the bone of Makebizuru, the bone of Mundubi, the bone of Aranga uh Kalaba, all those names were aligned. And if you look at the order, things happened and people disputed those polls. They said, hey, who's maked, who's Brian, who's Kalaba? And today we can still see the trail that indeed those polls were genuine. And we shall use the international platform such as this one to speak to to make sure that people should align because this platform of yours has testified that indeed you say the opinions which are coming through this platform were genuine. And we shall open too many international gateways to speak to these issues. We can keep his ideal, and we shall keep our platform such as this one. But that does not mean we should not condemn those things. You have already mentioned that it's a serious crime. Today's more today's situation we're able to keep the track of whoever is doing these things. But you can clearly tell that even the finding in of all those 14 that were successful found in, they are not safe as we speak. Because if they can ban Masaya on what ground, they still go back and try to talk. Anytime soon will be hearing, look at what they did to that man who they call they they declared the bankrupt. In my view, that was a play by the state to say, look, we can ban this person, we can do everything because the next day you're apologizing. What was you apologizing? Anyway, so we can tell that even him reminds you that he's uh is playing with him is in is a government project. But let's work together, let's make sure that even those Kalaba Kalaba is not safe as we speak. Everyone is not safe. So let's put our hands together to conquer this uh this this monster. Thank you.

SPEAKER_13 1:21:22

Thank you very much. You can call. We are discussing the issues that have been listed on the um on the flyer. There, the lines are open. Um I am just shocked by the directives, the so-called guidelines by IBA and Mr. Webster Malido. The the guidelines are extremely oppressive and outside the constitution. Let's hear your views.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:48

Sponsors, sample sizes, and other relevant information that go with the uh political uh opinion polls. Number five, coverage of polling day, including the prohibition of campaign interviews for political parties or independent candidates, and the prediction of election results on polling day. Number six, the announcement of election results based only on verified and officially confirmed information. And lastly, number seven, complaints handling procedures requiring broadcasting stations to respond to election-related complaints within two days, while the IPA is expected to conclude investigations within four days and issue appropriate directives where necessary. These guidelines apply to all broadcast stations in Zambia and are aligned with the Electoral Process Act number thirty five of twenty sixteen, particularly the electoral code of conducting relating to the duties of the media during elections. By ensuring that citizens receive accurate and balanced information needed to make informed electoral.

SPEAKER_13 1:24:23

We are also encouraging you to come to this platform and um we want you to make your contribution, then we'll play that video. Some aspects of it because there's nothing sensitive. All he said is that President Hakayende must go. He must be retired. We need to have a former president. That is uh uh that is that's that's the most sensitive thing he said. Like Sishua Sishua stated that there's nothing sensitive about this. So we are all surprised by that interview, and I hope that he will come on this forum. Thank you very much. Uh the line is cut. Please go, please go again, please go. Today we are discussing three major issues: the banning of political parties, and about seven have been affected so far. Uh, we want you to contribute for the first time. Former political former ruling parties are not on the ballot. You need MMD and PF. Alo Cola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:53

Uh, this is Precious Inongium Beata from Livingstone.

SPEAKER_13 1:25:56

Precious, give us your contribution.

unknown 1:26:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:01

Uh first and foremost, I want to talk about what happened. Uh, what happened yesterday? If every consent citizen should condemn that, because yesterday it was the African Freedom Day, and it was a day of everyone who had the right to visit their beloved ones. They are in prison. Even the those matters, they've got the right also to be visited. You see, but then this government blocked the our president won't do it, and also the vice president already doesn't want there. So the fact that they're starting to show that we don't have human rights in this country. We don't have freedom in this country. So our dividends on behalf of the president, or you are dependent on the freedom, the way it's the freedom. We don't have any freedom, banning to this people of banning people. All this thing is the time to let it, but present what kind of is the data. I don't know if you people if you need that. The third party is going to be a few. How would you do what getting zero? But because in terms of Baron, there were democrats, all those people, they were found in the balance. Did you see the room of broken demons? So why are you broken them to arrest the criminals who are discussing? And you are busy lying to the people. They were criminals. They were what? They were criminals, Mr. President. We see all those instruments of power that you had. How come you failed to send me? My father was not a criminal. But you sent me in prison. That's innocent child. That's very master child. You failed to have mess on them. So why should you have messed on the criminals? Why are you giving immunity to criminals? So, Amwamba, please, I beg you in God's name, let all Zambian people they should stand and fight for what is right. What Vakanychema is doing is not right. He's making our lives miserable. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_13 1:29:15

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, my dear sister from Livingstone. Allo Cola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution. Wonderful.

SPEAKER_15 1:29:55

Then when we are the leader, takwe tensoni, takwe te wisdom. The challenge we have got in this country, and the all of us we Zambians, the 20 million plus, we have allowed Mr. Haga Hinde Ichirema to lie to the Zambian people and the chemicali. Pantupabini. When Saul was committed a lot of wrong thing, Ali fortuala each and be sacrifice. But the David Na Lufianya Ale ishiva teachi na Lufianya chinge. There's a difference between hypocrites and sinner. So that's why hypocrites. The problem we have in this country, to assuming a leader who is a hypocrite, is not a sinner. Because Alaf Mulangabe, Alaf Munangwatchi no more. Nama Zambian, Mula Nduakwe, of small things. The issue, brother Ambassador Mwamba, you are bringing on your platform. They are very critical, which is simoning the conscious of the Zambian people. Very important. That's one. Number two, uyo munumendo webista. Namwamuna, Iamuna watu muntu obekete. Aleste wimbi fila mkamwini. Because if you are an election mwamba, it's a competition of idea. Nale, it's like you are going to play football. You cannot start dictating. If you other teams is still prepared, in politics is not like that. Politics is a competition of ideas. So wow, Mista. I don't folks tell a great ma opposition. Fill prepared. My opposition. Ah, we have zandia and wonga fifty watch. Dollar Matusale, Dollar Arapona. Awantu mgara ste finish. Ama IT, four years along the line, there was no electricity. Finger F Habe Pawan. No male. I don't stale great amount opposition. As long as no anything, which is in if you are and they're not backed by the law. But opposition. We won't fuela. We choy program we have UPND. We still is an agenda for UPND. He wants to intimidate Ama independent broadcast or independent radio station. If your mwamba, I'm a politicsanga kwantikuchen, baga to chenawa UPND. As you have said, uku starting election, it's not on the voting day. It's the process. They want to make sure to ukukanyama process. Opinion poetio opinion points. Even independent radio station to do okay and pila in the lama of life. If you have Magwisa, that's what it tends to FO. I am Nikabu fine way. It's opposition versus Upiendu. Upiend a Zambia. Chimbi. No manuba mame chunapapa. Tribolism ya was one sided. Awawesu, Awa Southern Province, Western, North Western, Gavalan de Fia Pamutundu. We na t tribolism. Tribolism ya was in bloko. Ni tribolism ya msangoshan. Alawane um tembo. Uleme na konse konse. Awa nanga barusya nya munganda. Iwengwa mufiashi, ufio wa konde mavana, wonse, weda mwana obe, wwana omu nove, nana rusya nya mkonde. Numba wana kuwa na wobeva chingida, nanguwa rusenye. Keti chibombe. The last thing ambassadar wants to talk about it. Etu awanta veshi. Ba you pi and wakwata schim. Yea kušta ama candidate. Awa it falling ku southern province, northwestern and western. Now tendalama walambo kustama candidate. Apape no arambo kumama candidate, bambo kusta withdraw, they are candidate mma constituences, or chair person and the mayor, nama counselors. So if intu ifi tule lomba, kumfu m shitatu, baritunga, palamoundi chifu tunga of western province Barosland, palamound chief mpezeni of, palamount chiefu kalonga galawundi of chwa people, palamoundi chief chitimukulu, we imwevenya ka inde patule chalo, alefuya ekwa fuma, taku tafule kwa womu muntui mini neko, alefuya abantuwaya no pos, takwa we chalochu walanifto. Ale patule mitundu. Ifufwena zambian, twaaliu pana kale twa lifialava na mumitundu. Emo twa te mwale sale mitundu. Umutundu twa ishiwe. Wina Zambia. Ifiale stayafuendalama, amboksta bla ma yumasparing candidate, bamboksta withido, ale patru mutundu. Tulefu mutundu. Nangunaivi namdu dwa imina u kasama. Nana kuatama polisa asuma, abantuwa fila musalava ntungulush, nangu ni lia, twa iminina kuwa kula u kuri kwose, as long as is a zambian people should elect him. If you are for kuchtoy muntu te muntu musuma muntu munkarwe. Ima wenfu mwimwe. Imeni mustenis topo. Ba chifufu mwana chingwala. Wachifu monze wuchi pepo. Uumu tuala tu patu munandua gridness. He wants to lose the country as a boardroom. Bamuamboyumuntute muntu musuma. I submit.

SPEAKER_13 1:37:37

Thank you very much. Hello, call up. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from.

unknown 1:37:42

Hello, Bamba.

SPEAKER_13 1:37:51

Hello?

unknown 1:37:52

Hello, Mama.

SPEAKER_13 1:37:53

Yes, we can hear you, Mama. We can hear you, Mama.

SPEAKER_36 1:37:58

Oh, can I tell necklook tight win on a power for me power, Mamba?

SPEAKER_13 1:38:03

Thank you.

unknown 1:38:03

Ah, by OPNG.

SPEAKER_36 1:38:37

When it's about H. Well, it's my child. But you can't. What do you gonna be able to? So my feet. But the collapse, I said, no, we saw my company. Fish my diaple. I mean to patana. Shakwisa. But it's like Bodisim. Baconia Sweddy, but she bagged. Malaysata Malachi Definitely.

SPEAKER_13 1:40:37

Thank you, Mario. Thank you very much. Thank you. Alakola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_32 1:41:26

Greetings to you, Ambassador. I hope Muabumbas will know.

SPEAKER_13 1:41:29

And some quite more bumben.

SPEAKER_32 1:41:45

A segment of the Zambian diaspora here. You know, honesty. But I feel also a bit disappointed because uh uh the senior government of Kisha's government, UPN, you have been working for the government governments have got a lot of experience. No, it doesn't work like this. Uh separation of powers and the civil service must be separated from uh shine and guns that happen in the political world. Because the UP and D Ambassador Tabakwa don't change it for civil service. Tabakwa Tanok is to differentiate quite maybe 20 years. I am a politically exposed uh appointments. Yeah, what it's taken. So in an bokalana can have tribal, honesty, we have to be truthful. Because kumwesu, take a UPND uh candidates constituency level, a mayoral level, or siyama ward shanship. But you kuria uguumu abuwe nakure sawden. But in shame file any other political party, mutu I mean, strategic positions we have an umba. And so now they shati chipani shicha iminaku kurakuba nesu, ichakovati te UPN Votela. But kumesukuno, tela. It's okay, but in gachakovati fidestio of a minister of education, former minister of education, uh Dr. Siakarima, I think never former member of parliament for Chiru. Kurakonek Chunda Gonaika. And I walkama disparaging disparaging remarks about who are poverty of the mind, and he wasn't reprimanded or rebuked by the powers that be. But Nishurakum is a support. I I feel very disappointed. Because uh, as senior government officials ambassador, I'm sure Naimu are issue. Rural Zambia, yeah, but if you northern province, western, good to underfip a central province, we have southern province, a difference. You can't even say at your better. Maybe Glock Southern province, Kuraguzan Basic Riverside, Map Pastoralists. But the Sane Ombeakuna. If example, crop farming here, crop farming if rice to the stapa no. We have to respect each other. But unite Avantu. Whether Avantuba private sector for the government. But Mwabantu are meant to be servants. Mm-hmm government, uh, teacher's nephew shall. He was a teacher by profession, then in my ranks rime up to uh head teacher, then he became a member of parliament. That man, after Bachelor retired, he was even doing my business because he made enough money from working as a teacher, as a head teacher, then member of parliament. That if a teaching page for me, please. But this time, my influencers and they make money, times have changed. But if you feel UPND, you know, ambassador.

SPEAKER_13 1:46:09

Thank you, my brother. Thank you. Thank you, Amabo from Italy. Um, hello, colour. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution. Hello, Cola. Hello, hello, yes, colour. Good evening.

SPEAKER_19 1:46:29

Okay, um, honorable uh Madam Mamba. This is the Nosca. I'm also calling from Italy. This is so crazy. Mabu is uh my my president here in the Italian community, uh in the Zambia community in Italy. So it's so strange that Mabu. Anyway, Mam Mamba, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity. Uh, what I would like to say is one, I would like to say something on Sevier Chungu, and that case that you have already pre-portrayed on your program, and I would like to say something on the IBN um uh president Katushi.

SPEAKER_13 1:47:17

Web Star Malido is a director general. Okay, Webster Malido is a director general.

SPEAKER_19 1:47:25

Webster, yes, my webster two things that I would like to call contribute on uh my webster one, and I would like to contribute as well on the other issue. So um on my webster, uh Zambian people, because now I don't have stopped talking to the UPND. I'm now speaking. My intention is to speak to the Zambian people, um and so um and uh I am uh taking advantage of the liberties and the freedoms that the country Italy gives me to speak uh freely. So now so on um the elections, first of all, on the elections, uh Webster reminded me of what happened to ECZ when by ECZ they say they wanted to change some norms or some regulations so that ECZ can have authority to disqualify or confirm the validity of a candidate. I remember there was a discussion in the past when they are saying, but um you as ECZ, are you not contradicting with what the laws of the Zambian constitution states? Because the laws also state what is supposed to be done insofar as uh the um who qualifies to become a candidate or not. So why do you you why does the ECZ want to have authority to disqualify or confirm the candidature of an individual? I remember very well by Madame Zelome. I think she found it very difficult to give an answer. Okay, colleagues, we are all Zambians, we love our country, Zambia. I love my country very much, and just as Father Chende was saying this morning, we love our country, and that's why we speak. That's why I've come on this platform, Mamma. To the Zambian people. Transparency entails to allow journalists or private media to check their checks and balances, so to say. That is transparency. So now, if you are another kind of an IBM Secretary General, they are not going to allow we object. I personally I object. I object because transparency means allow the people by another kind of IBM. Allow the people, allow more people, even private media, to transmit them the information. Allow them to do this. I voted for her kind of chilema in 2021. I'm not ashamed of saying this. I am just disappointed that I voted for Hakanichilema.

SPEAKER_11 1:51:15

And this thing.

SPEAKER_19 1:51:32

Yes. So we want to okay, we want us a long way. I just want to bring him back to the history. Gary Combo is the one who caught the whole country. But it is that you respect the G twenty. We have different figures as compared to the figures that you have. So that Takwaka, what Garin Kombo did by that time, it's not fair. And I think the Zambian people should not succumb to this thing. We need to bananik allow the people. Okay, I'm going to give you an example. What happens here in Europe? What happens is this when the elections are going through, when they are counting Luapula, I'm giving as an example, Luapula. Then they say we are now in Luapula. We are giving out the results. When the results are given, they are being given to the whole country, immediately they are being presented. So Luapula is given. The way you are doing now, I don't trust the UPND. So just for this reason, the fact that I don't trust it. If you are stambala mwewa, with that woman, that's why I don't trust. Then what happens? At the end, we had that it's only stambala mwewa. We went through. So, any example, na paya fe example, with this example, think about the presidential elections in 2026 August. For this reason, what has happened to Kuba Stambala Mwewa and we na Zambia? Now I mummy by UPND, UPND Mwebanes. You are not our enemies. Me myself, I'm not an enemy of UPND. You guys, you know me. I helped some of your candidates. I helped some of your counselors. I helped some of the candidates. Number I move by UPND. Allow accountability. So IBM Barry, Internet, results. It should be contemporary.

SPEAKER_13 1:55:01

Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thank you.

unknown 1:55:05

Thank you. Very much.

SPEAKER_13 1:55:07

Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from, and uh let's see your contribution.

SPEAKER_16 1:55:13

Good evening, uh Ambassador.

SPEAKER_13 1:55:15

Good evening. Thank you. Tell us your name.

SPEAKER_16 1:55:19

Yes, this is David Moyon. We're in Western Province.

SPEAKER_13 1:55:23

Yes, my dear brother. Please make your contribution, David.

SPEAKER_16 1:55:27

My contribution is very short. This is a wake-up call. The democracy we fought for in 1990, 1991 is hanging on a fourth trade of court of war. So it will depend on all the all those who played to put their hooks to bring back our democracy, which we fought for so our multi-party system. It's not the democracy or the multi-party system we all went. So it's to it's for you, uh Ambassador Mamba, to talk about because it seems over the past five years we've lost the vision of what type of multi-partism, what type of multi-partism we're going to talk about. Maybe the one ones don't understand what multipartism is all about. But the democracy, multipartism we are now experiencing is deep. That should reiterate you. That should give them just a sleepless night.

unknown 1:56:44

Thank you.

SPEAKER_13 1:56:44

Thank you very much, David Senior from Mongo. Um, allocola, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from. Yeah, okay, I think it's on. Hello, caller, please tell us your name and where you are calling calling us from.

unknown 1:57:00

Hello.

SPEAKER_13 1:57:01

Hello.

SPEAKER_09 1:57:03

Hello, good uh evening, ambassador.

SPEAKER_13 1:57:05

Good evening.

SPEAKER_09 1:57:08

Oh okay. Uh this is MK6.

SPEAKER_13 1:57:11

Yes, MK6. Make your contribution.

SPEAKER_09 1:57:14

Okay, I'm calling you just within Zambia.

SPEAKER_13 1:57:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 1:57:22

Yeah. Uh I'm just surprised because I just came in. That's the thing I need to know. And uh I've done my research, a bit of some research in uh West in South, sorry, and Luapula, and as well as uh part of Central Province. Um it's so appalling. I don't know if maybe it's me or everybody else. I need some callers also to confirm. This year doesn't look like it's an election year. Are the people scared to campaign or what is going on? You can move like 100 or 200 kilometers, you won't find anyone or anywhere vehicles doing campaigns. Are the people so scared that they can't even go for campaigns? Or people are just tired to say we just go and vote. So I just need someone to confess once and common every day, especially Muslims when you go southern province, the once you were scared. Is that the real reality of every district and province in the country? So I just want to note that the second Ribamwamba, I've observed something on the SEC page. I don't know if you have seen it also, and this is one thing that I've been talking about that we need to depoliticize institutions, it's scary. You cannot have a whole SEC even advertising to say we'll be running uh uh uh documentaries on the recoveries made on corruption, you know, that is to sack the people, yeah.

SPEAKER_13 1:59:23

They want to inflame opinions, they want to inflame opinions against political opponents.

SPEAKER_09 1:59:29

You cannot do that during that period. During this period, you cannot. And are they going to show us what the European day has stolen? Because we have the fake reports. Are they going to show us? Why has this government turned every institution into politics?

SPEAKER_13 1:59:47

They appointed two cadres there, my my the director general and the the the board chairperson. Remember even the the outgoing American ambassador said, How do you appoint corrupt people, suspected corrupt people? Um uh uh to to such you know to such a sensible institution.

SPEAKER_09 2:00:08

And you know one thing, you know one thing I've observed, you know, when you have done a crime, or bam and this is our pastun so you've stopped redish in the pot. Now you are scared to come out of the house because someone saw you, you know. You you will be remaining, you will remain in the room for the rest of the day, and this is what the UPN are trying to do. They are scared that if they lose power, what they said to their friends is what is going to happen to them. But let's assure them, let's tell these people to say we are not fighting you so that you will be prosecuted. No, all we want is to put a rightful leaders in the in the in those places that you are occupying. You have troubled the people, you have suffered this nation for too long. Four years seems like it's for ten years. So they are fighting because they think that they from losing power they will immediately go to prisons. But no, uh, I think me have a lot to say. I think let me call you on the sidelines so we make a date.

SPEAKER_13 2:01:25

Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, MK. I'll call you. Thank you for your insightful and for those good questions. There's a caller waiting here. Hello, caller. Please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_07 2:02:15

So what is important? Because he started quite.

SPEAKER_13 2:02:25

Thank you, my brother. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_07 2:02:39

This is the time old for Twice Kara once a pinchy, no colouring a fear, uh, because I've been to fear because the advice.

SPEAKER_13 2:02:52

Thank you very much. Allo Cola, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from.

SPEAKER_23 2:02:57

Thank you, Ambassador Mwamba. Uh, senior Daniel on the line.

SPEAKER_13 2:03:01

Thank you, Daniel. Please make your contribution.

SPEAKER_23 2:03:04

Do you know that God sent you where you are for a reason and a purpose? And the reason and the purpose is now been revealed. You see, what if you were in Zambia, we wouldn't be even having this kind of problems. So Awa these guys are dictators and they are failed. They have nothing to offer to the Zambian people. And they want us to believe to say, Oh, it's well, but Awa Mwamba, just you alone, just being on that podcast is enough. That's what we need. God bless you, Ambassador Mwamba, and everything and every person that is listening as a Zambian. Let us remove this government out of power. Thank you.

SPEAKER_13 2:03:40

Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you're according to and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_12 2:03:52

Hello, Ambassador Mwabombashan.

SPEAKER_13 2:03:54

Yes, tuabombamnisha.

SPEAKER_12 2:03:58

Mamakendra according Lusaka. Met his nkala branji, but it is in Kara tiziy or pachape. Awanaka Bakutini is achita branji. Nizapwenzkai branjina se nizapu. From the way it goes since 2021. Nikuseve Zachabezina Piafundize Mukamwachabemka Mukamasi Nasilepo. A Pamanji Vamina Funuchita kutiwa chite branji. Bambasa Dalobachite branjina branji s wasatiofia. Andi Sivati Zwakuti Murungusa Kondula E Mungunuamfaliensi. But Bamina Machitawe Mungusa Kondula Mambassad. Andi Murungwa in Nanjidayaki. Mungwazazu Avamefizachiti, Kabe Vaganza Tikapina, Bagashitavasu wasapesha wa opposition. Soaza Pesha, Kutibe Kalekuna freedom. Mailova end wa present watu brandwina MZJ Utiba African freedom utivanu ba indekuba univantua baunekova andukuchawa, minibari munde puchawa che nkali dwe. Eh? Corruption yamanchita nyingat. Gonzalo Janakaba batwandwana chem seka, eh, afuna godiata, to afuna chani ku kamba vindu Zambidi. Isama Zambians Baba Ambassador Katinanka la Panji. Wanduana Gwamanyamuka. Manja mung Zambia Mwanji dipuka tio tiopa mantu sanamabose. Bamba ambassad mantuwam manya muka venang wama nyam kasemba dana minimach the behavior governassiya na kutia kutia. But ya pava fula matichite kuti mungavti kapena kapelate ah we kunam kutiana tina prelapaka manjit kapu atitika presepuze kuti nam chiffat and manji. Ni mundu vire namake ambassad musepu inam. Nama mc. Thank you very ambassador. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_13 2:06:07

Thank you. Alo cola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_24 2:06:16

Uh uh Mr. Sinkara.

unknown 2:06:20

Mr.

SPEAKER_13 2:06:20

Sinkara, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_24 2:06:24

Uh yes, my contribution is that you know there is one thing I've just noticed uh I don't know. Um you see inside the movie the one thing I've noticed is that the uh police officers don't try to say that they can that they can't do nothing. I don't know why it's like thank you, my brother.

SPEAKER_13 2:06:50

Thank you. Someone says uh the the the the police officers in southern province can't challenge the cards. Hello, caller, please. Tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_20 2:07:04

Yeah, no, uh, we can't even mention the names issues. No, we just want to support your program uh and the what is happening on the ground, and for sure, uh by UPND and his team, together with his boss, uh Zambian, we decided to give them uh a chance of five years. Um, what I can say is the leadership uh and uh to be a servant is very different thing. Uh HH we decided to put him on that on that chair to be the servant of Zambia. Now it seems like he has come a leader whereby he wants to take everything in his hand. Everything in z in his hand, and he's taking Zambia like he. Uh, what I can say is uh umuntu waku bomba takwa woku bomba five years, wakubomba, ala bomba, na muri na muri one year, nangumuri e nangumuri three month, utiawomba, kuringa fienama resources, na kwata. So wakaramba ishire mukubomba. Bai ishrire mkutapa. So mukuta bokova tapa, mm mm nafram kairi naba tapa. So ukuding gana nfio beke ma zambian. Go in church. Ngana randa I shak church because myself I am a I'm a believer and I I know what is happening in mu church. Whereby mu church now number are for send the Bible by kupike. Uti that Christian, they won't have any voice to say. And for sure, even right now, I'm a Christians. They are fearing even to say to talk anything. But our country is taking. So, number two are kwaci. What now but we can sum this is our country, and we need to enjoy our work. We need to enjoy our freedom. So, Nangri Nemo Shrif to the Romba Kopida and Mita Angiri, Avenaimwe. I was expiring rootanyamaku. Now I decided Okubomba coined to him at Mbone. Make sure that our present, our ZDM, Naba Mundiokkira Di Wan Sevengire mu Vengireku Pru to one. So we are praying, and for sure the Sala Tangri.

SPEAKER_13 2:10:30

Thank you very much. Please tell us your name and where you are calling us from.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:44

Yes, in the Caroline, East London, South Africa.

SPEAKER_13 2:10:49

Caroline from East London, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:53

Yes. I just want to say something, Kuma Zambi. Kutina Landa.

SPEAKER_13 2:10:59

Mkwai, you can proceed your life.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_13 2:11:23

I can hear you, please continue. Yes, we can.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:27

Yes. Zambia e Kulu. H Hifaumo. Ola na nabantuwa ngina banfu mamamo. Now foko kumwa wokouma garin combo. Abantuna monat at is not a good leader. So if we to fill it to fit to a funya po m wen so. Moko mopusana ota to the fan it's easy. One mama leaders when you co to finger to a shut in the valle in the valle land that. We need to know that new need, not that you need to be a unit voice abandon to the sepamous taking if we take.

SPEAKER_13 2:12:21

Wonderful, thank you very much. Thank you. Um, colour, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_34 2:12:31

Good evening, Ambassador. Good evening so much. Um I'll remain anonymous. I'm calling from Southern Province.

SPEAKER_13 2:12:38

Anonymous from Southern Province, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_34 2:12:43

Ambassador, I am ashamed, I am embarrassed, and I feel guilty for voting for this man. Some of us really pushed and voted for this man, thinking that he will really bring change and help unite this nation. But truly, this man is a weapon fashioned against this nation. It is shameful and embarrassing to see the things that these people keep on doing. They are not here to build a nation. They are here to destroy it. And I can guarantee you, even people in Southern Province are fatigued. They are embarrassed. It's just that people cannot talk. People are afraid of talking. This year, in this year's election, Southern Province, I can guarantee you, even in the rural areas, they will there will be high votes because of the behavior of the UPND. At this point where we are, we should realize that the democracy of Zambia is at stake. Let's forget about even issues of the economy. If we still want to have a country left that we can call home, dear Zambians, I beg of you, let us save our country. Zimbabwe started like this, and it's at a point of no return. Zambia is a peaceful country. If there's one thing that you can do, is please let us retain the democracy that we've enjoyed for over these years. They told us, Ambassador, they warned us. We thought they didn't just like this man. Today we are seeing that truly what they were saying is what this man has become. And we haven't seen anything yet. Given the chance that this man goes in another five years, we'll surely regret. Thank you so much. That was my contribution.

SPEAKER_13 2:14:54

Thank you, my brother. Thank you for that candid explanation and contribution. Thank you very much. Alo Cola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_14 2:15:05

Thank you, Amwamba. Muabombe. I just wanted to comment on two or three issues so that we give chance to other people.

SPEAKER_13 2:15:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_14 2:15:21

I think a lot of a lot of us Zambians are disappointed with our kateka viswab. If you remember our kateka vismo position, a lot of that us Zambians believe that he's going to be a champion of democracy. He's going to strengthen institutional governance, separation of power, freedom of speech, the things everybody complain. But if you take most of those things today, a lot of things are going in the opposite direction. And this idea of doing things, I don't know whether we are going to be running politics in our country based on lies. Where you have no shame to say things today, tomorrow you can still stand tall and still repeat the same things, and you don't see anything wrong in such kind of politics. It is making most of the Zambians want to vote because they will be thinking like, oh, politicians. What is happening in some important country? Because they are not assured of safety to express their right to vote. And this is a time when we expect the president to come out strong and condemn that kind of behavior. Because then we are going to have people just going unopposed. People can't campaign. Then how are we going to? It's like we're wasting money to hold elections when people can't vote freely. Why are we having these elections? Can we have the independence of people expressing their rights to vote for the leaders of their choice? Independence candidates have always been there. What has happened today that people can't be allowed to have independent candidates standing? It shouldn't be like that. We trusted our boss so much that 0-3 were on the queue to vote, but I think I think we are disappointed. We can do better. Thank you, Mr. Mwamba.

SPEAKER_13 2:17:37

Thank you very much. Thank you. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_10 2:17:47

Anonymous, Mr. Mwamba. Good evening.

SPEAKER_13 2:17:50

Anonymous, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_10 2:18:28

At the end of the day, when he's counter-attacked, he makes justifications with a lot of courage. Papodium with his head high. What kind of a leader do we have? Honestly. Then by statement, Mazambians. Independent uta ka imiri womchipani chao, vambakumenya. When he's the one who engineered, who told the people. That's not the only thing. But president, after Wantu Tarila, how can such a thing happen honestly? We've never witnessed that. But President Wanani Wanango teachita promise. I'm going to look at that. Up to today, since you wabanza tungatuanako report, Kuchoka Kuriba President, or action what he took. Up to now, nothing has happened. Bantu Bamulungu, I am a pronouncement. Just for example, many times from the web uh IBM. If we are lazy, no action will be taken. I'm telling you, this shall be reinforced. And UPND Valibes, they are going to reinforce this. How many times, Mamwamba Pamene Mwenzo Tisoka? Pani P7. You started calling for the opposition. Please unite. If it means to rise against it, rise, nothing happened. Yo Bill 7 in a bit. 74 bills, yanapit. Every pronouncement, Yamenewa Pangaba Yopendi. Today we are hearing President is going to stand even in 2031, 2036. I'm telling you, all these issues, they are being discussed down there. If as long as we're not taking any action, they shall be in power, they shall be reinforced. Please, let's find my means to defend the vote. Already we beamed to ka vote of a polling station. You should not stay there. You should move out of the polling station. Wa Ivanangele Sabaka Bokola. They are going to reinforce Yonsa Murreva Fatayo. If of as long as we are not taking any action, it's opposition. To tell you the truth, Mr. Mwamba, that in kuvota rotina votalero, one to Tinga win is opposition ma votes. But now look at the systems. The way he has planted Wantua mma institutions. This is that's where we are worried, some of us. We cannot even win the elections as long as we are not defending the pro the votes.

unknown 2:21:57

Thank you, Mr. Muamba.

SPEAKER_13 2:21:59

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_35 2:22:07

What nine? Is it ninety seven-98, Captain Solo? That attempted call. What were you?

SPEAKER_05 2:22:12

What what will happen from your angle on that day? This issue in 1998 has been assumed or created as an attempted call. I would like to put this record straight. That was a rebellion against the commander of the army at the time. And you do not approach that to a call. That was a rebellion that was in the army. And uh let's change the record. There was no that call attempt against the political leadership in this country. It was something that was boiling within the army, especially um around the army commander they had. Whatever it was, um that was not a coup. That was uh a military battle. Why did they label it a couple? Because you know, uh teach each other in this country. We shouldn't be misplacing facts. You know, when you hear of something in this country, oh Kabuala, oh, it's a coup allocola.

SPEAKER_13 2:23:21

Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_33 2:23:25

Thank you so much, Ambassador Man. You are actually talking to Gilbert Chfiri. I'm calling you from Kaputa.

SPEAKER_13 2:23:34

Mr. Chfira from Kaputa, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_33 2:23:38

Yes, yes. I think I just want to say uh over the issue of the adoption uh of UPD. If you look at the way things were done by the secretariat, uh you wonder whether this country can be ruled in a normal way. If we can have a country like this, the confusion can come in a political party which is actually ruling the country. What of managing the resources of this country? We have the situation whereby, I'm just citing an example in one of the districts, uh nearby district in summer, where one candidate uh was actually given an adoption certificate and he was actually heading for my nomination. Before he could even reach to a place where they were actually doing my nomination, another adoption was issued to another person. By the time this other group will reach that side, they have already given somebody an adoption. It was totally confused in every corner. Now, if you can have such kind of people learning this country, honestly, you expect this country to be to be to be actually learned by people with the vision or people with the ideas. So these are some of the things which we are actually getting worried. Some of us, if you make a decision, a central committee make a decision to say this particular individual has been adopted. And for the first time in the history of this country, these are the people who have actually applied PNUP in various constituencies. Because the decision of the IST organ is final. Now we are feeling how do you issue a certificate to three or four individuals when that certificate is being signed by the president and the secretary general? How do you issue three certificates to one? So is the president telling me to say my constituency is Mozambique for him to actually issue it more than three certificates with one particular constituent? As I'm speaking right now, a nearby constituency called in Sama district, the person who was given an adoption certificate. They organized another person within a twinkle naimi certificate. It's totally confusing. Can you allow such kind of people? Look, now if you can allow such kind of people who could take a child beyond this year, so it is my appeal to say let's just work a hard. Otherwise, beyond 2026. I don't think the judiciary will go completely. To bring back Madame Mut Speak of National Assembly. What kind of institution is it going to be?

SPEAKER_13 2:28:33

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_15 2:28:44

I've come back again. There's something you just want to discuss, which is very serious.

SPEAKER_13 2:28:50

Make your contribution, my brother.

SPEAKER_15 2:28:53

Yes. Uh, Ambassador, I just want to talk about the aspiring candidates from the opposition. Name the eyelids from season first, uh, socialist party, uh, resolution, and all other political party or the ponse and the pomose. When you stand the in opposition, there will be a starving. So trefwa mmukwate kwa ama principle. Mozambia, we are the leading country in democracy in the Sadiq region and the Komesa and even part of Africa. So let's principle. Umle politics, takuli.500,000 sta withdraw. Two more opposition, more sacrifice. Across the board, whether you are from this political part up to independent. Number two ways, I conclude. Takwa Muzambia Munuwala Ndro we waitua sa inapali certificating secretary general na president. No mbawa mwamba uu PND. Tuma sanguina wantuna wa kwatama certificate ywa tatu. So, uwa peli a rama certificate yatatu uwevi nani. No mbawe na Zambia Shuwa mwa. Mwewe na Zambia starting from north to east. West Shuwa to South. Na mwwaata president. Ule esta dribo awantu wa kung political party. Afro k salabantu, awa kwewa twala imina asta create confusion. E muntu umoshua mwe na Zambia. Mwlefokwimina kutawe president. Mwewe na Zambia tuafu kama ton ton kanyeni po. Ama structures from the constraincy district up to province. Baasta recommendi Ama Kandi Toba Le Fire. Baasta Baasta isshu ma certificati, Yavidi o Yavatatu. The confusion ya msawashan. If a reader is failing to collect the problems in his own house, a kwani shasha nukutungulule sha low. Ala ala munasha nibali shonsevo. Kuta wana wonse umutembo reminu kosequonse. Kuta shani, mwena zamja isukeni le sanami pekanyami pele chambaso. A mulang alanga. Aleta icha shtike muistea yachipingo ya babylon. Mumane confusion a shtika mio pieni because in tungushiva gwata wwate chichinka. Ya wwata shutun tunggu flu. Ya ya ilange ine. You cannot give three or four. Mwanani fest I'll give an example mwamba on elusaka mea wonkashana. Efoba mu chili. Bamu peasatamusta krieti. Elo sta abdakti na wapolisa watu ka wata. Ukuleta chilechi ichi pulachi mwa saim muewa, chamusta fili, chamusta file nomination. It's fui chavishawe. In tungulushi ifata ma principal, ifwa kwata wwe te china twasale. It's toala iminapo. Not the festikam zandi alawale to seca. Pandu file munega fas some social media wewati uku kwali confusion. Uku kwali confusion. E mutusha mindekushias. I just wanted to talk about Ima Kandetawa iminamo opposition. More opposition. Inda lama sh no no limita kwa kawe. But imini neni ni kuti mpusu shavena zambia. Not to gustisha best rightu. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_13 2:33:50

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, as we as we come to the Clause of the program had said we spent some time to listen to the program by Xavier Chungu, the one that has been banned and cancelled, and we've spoken very strongly that um the both IBA have no right to cancel his program. He's a presidential candidate. He has a right to his role as director general is merely informs his leadership as a leader of uh uh a political party. That's what it does. President Taka Indechem always says, as an economist, as an economist, why? Because his work as an economist and you know uh consultant for Grant Thornton informed his opinion as president of how he can run. Director General of Intelligence has certain insights in his role as former director general, and he's not disclosing any secrets, he's building on his mayor uh experience to then propose solutions to the country. You cannot ban him. And like I stated, we are for the first time political parties, ruling political parties not on the ballot. President Hakainde Hilema is determined to obliterate them. There is no unit for the first time, there is no MMD for the first time, there is no patriotic front on that ballot paper, and four other political parties have been banned in very suspicious circumstances. And we called for the reinstatement on the ballot, especially of the case of um Chandakatotouwe and Sean Tembo. The changes that have been made are illegal. The records that are at resorts that belong to government, you cannot have someone sitting at a at an internet cafe in town to make changes to the records uh at a government institution. Imagine if I can sit from here and change the records of your farm, of your house, and issue titles to myself. Will that be valid? How secure are government records? So the case of Sean Tembo and Chandaka Totobe, I think, is extremely exceptional. And ECZ and the government have a fundamental obligation to reinstate Chandaka Totobe and Sean Tembo on the ballot. Uh, so listen to um uh Xavier Chungua, give you a snippet of about 25 minutes for you to listen to this interview. They've banned. Uh let's go.

SPEAKER_05 2:36:43

Wait to hear what happened and things will be described properly. You know, you've heard of people saying accused of treason, accused of espionage, accused of corruption. These are not things that you should be using under normal circumstances. There are crimes which have been committed, but there's a language for those crimes. If it's corruption, maybe. But if one is interacting with people and you accuse them of sabotage, I mean at all, you know, you know what I mean. So basically to say the least, that was not a coup, a political coup. That was uh uh a rebellion against the command at the time. And it should be regarded as such. Anyone wants to debate this item with me on a different platform, I'm very ready to give them the facts. Because you would. Because I'm Director General. And so I was flying from I left the country about just three days before. I went in for a family function. My young sister was getting married in England. And when I was flying back, it was a Monday, and you passed through Harare to come into Lusaka. British air was staff in Zimbabwe. They came to the aircraft. I was the only one they picked, and uh said, Mr. Chungo, let's go to uh what's the hotel there in Zimbabwe? Make all yeah. Uh the British government has booked you a hotel and you are going to stay there. Uh when the aircraft is going back to England to pick you so that you you stay in Europe, in England. I asked my lady, said, uh, what is it? She says, No, uh, there's a coup in Zambia. And I said, Okay, okay. Is there any way that I can use your phone? He said, Yes. So we got into the airport terminal from the aircraft. Nobody came out of the aircraft. And I went into some shop, they gave me the telephone, and I tried to call the president. And my president answered and I said, What's this? Then he says, Ah, no, no, no, no, Digi. It was a little problem with your friend. But uh, where are you? But where are you? And I said, I'm in a hurry. Uh then I asked the president, is it possible, Mr. President, that you can send me your pilot with that small aircraft, the King Air 200. Uh, so he can pick me quickly come. So we sort the matters together. So, oh, no problem. And the pilot was told to to come and pick me. But the process was taken, the clearance of the airspace and what have you. You only arrived about 16 hours from Osaka. From what time? What time? From about uh 9:30, 10 o'clock. So by that time, the information I started getting through this and that was that there was actually nothing. And the fact that I spoke to my president, it means there was no coup. Yes. And he explained to me what had happened. And then the British air was saying, don't tell people on the aircraft. I said, look, I may not, but I'll try and talk to those in the first class. There was Muana Mwamboa, my late speaker. Amusa. Amusa Mwana Mwambua. There was uh Samuel Musonda from National Commercial Bank. Uh there were quite a few others. It's on the same flight that we had by Roger Chongwe. He was in the business class. And for whatever reason, I think Barojia Chong suffered from his own imaginations. He asked the British house to remove his bags because it was going back. And it was frantic. That the entire aircraft now realized there's a problem here. Roger Chung was all over the uproar and moving around the British stuff. And when he enters the aircraft to try and pick his uh bags and so forth, he was, he couldn't even look to this side where the first class was. He was so scared and started telling people that the one who wants to kill me is in the aircraft. He labeled me as uh somebody who's trying to uh kill him. I was absolutely in my own uh world. I was I was I had no idea what he was talking about. Up to today, I don't know what role he played in that institution, in that incident. Some people said he was the one who organized them and what have you. I want to believe these are just propaganda statements to try and justify that that was a coup against the political system. He is just a coward. He had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with it. If we have to talk deep about what happened, of course, not this platform, uh it can actually feel you like, oh, shame, what a shame. So that's what happened about the coup. It wasn't a coup.

SPEAKER_35 2:41:30

In line with that as well, and you being the director general of the intelligence services in Zambia, there was something that was secret in this country for so many years until one day we have an announcement on the TV, on the main news, sorry. Tunnels have been discovered under TV. Well, same thing. Yeah. Tunnels have been discovered under state houses. Why were those things made public? Aren't those supposed to be safeguards for a president in terms of trouble?

SPEAKER_05 2:41:55

I'm sorry about it. It's uh it's a pity that these these things, like I'm saying, us Zambians, we must begin to be patriotic. We must begin to be ourselves. We must begin to respect our country. You know, we must be we must be begin to be together and consult among ourselves. There's not one country in this world that doesn't got security systems for its presidency. No. Uh and I'm sorry that uh overzealousness was quite uh uh loud and uh among the the new uh ministers in the cabinet of uh the movement for more party democracy. Uh what they did and uh the names are here, some of them. It's a pity. They this just there was just no need for them to. And today they regret, I'm sure, wherever they are, even the late ones, I know they regret that they ever talked about such a thing. Uh I am told in uh in the White House tunnels have just been extended exponentially. That uh it's beyond, I don't know. These things do happen. You have to protect your presidents. Where we're coming from, historically, um that institution is a sovereign institution of the country. If you can capture the president, you have won the war. So you need to protect that institution to the youth. Um sorry about uh the disclosures, but it happened. Where was it? Why was it a big deal? It was a tunnel. I think they can explain, but in as far as I'm concerned, it was.

SPEAKER_04 2:43:32

I'm asking Kalenga because he's the civilian here. Why was it a big deal?

SPEAKER_35 2:43:36

Yeah, why was it a big deal? Um that's what I'm trying to understand. Who exposed the tunnels? Why were they exposed? You were director general, and I'm sure even while you were director general, there was a general feeling that you had a hand in.

SPEAKER_04 2:43:53

Why was it a big deal? Those things must be secrets, the state secrets. No, no. It is to be expected, Baba. Yes, of who? Of a president and where they live, to do what? To have tunnels, escape roots.

SPEAKER_35 2:44:07

Yeah, no, that's the that's not a problem. The problem is why were they exposed? Who did that? It's not about overzealousness.

SPEAKER_05 2:44:14

Yeah, and uh, I think um to the MMD uh new leadership, it was the way of exposing Kaunda. Uh it's the way of trying to show Kaunda that it was just such a dangerous man. Um anyway, it was shot dead quickly, and they all regretted they ever did that. What was shot dead? What was shot? Uh the channels. They are they they they they reconciled the system and they stopped talking about it. And uh tunnels. They were all reprimanded. I'm not sure. Um look, um you have restrictions as to which extent you should go, uh despite being uh uh the director general of intelligence. You don't you don't just uh endeavor into state houses for the presidency. I've got my own offices as the director general. But however, you take stock, and uh I did do tech stock, and I think that institution was perfect. To tell you the least, it even survived or helped our liberation movement leaders so well. The tunnels. Yes, yes, yes. But it is you need a lot of resources, huh? You need a lot of money, you need a lot of everything, you need a lot of technology. And for the Zamian Intelligence Service, there's never been a budgetary line for intelligence operations. No. Open track. It's only about infrastructure development, it's about education funds, it's about uh uh building other things, school and so forth. So intelligence operation basically requires a lot of resources for cash in that circumstance. The days where we're coming from, basically this was limited much to cash than technology. But even then, when we started uh adopting to technology, you needed a lot of money because you had to buy the state of the art and use it properly. So in the time of my tenure, the 10 years, um I handled first my budget line for the office with a repute. And almost like every other year, the Auditor General took the matter to as a showcase to all other ministries and institutions on how to run the budget. Um when they came to say the operational, I mean they came to say they have stolen money, Chiluvand. There was absolutely uh not an element of truth in that because uh there was no money that we could have stolen. The budget was clear. And um the thing that you see I'm trying to talk about is that to operate an intelligence institution, you need a certain cash. Yeah. And this cash has to be organized with uh uh ingenuity. You organize the cash and you put it in a a vote, which now will be servicing the private operational activities of the intelligence. Why was it cash? Because it's always cash that you use. Okay, so it cannot be you cannot be accused of having stolen anything from there. No way. Because you don't have the sufficiency to start stealing millions out of there, the intelligence will collapse. You fail to operate. And um I operated the intelligence to the best of my ability. And at that time it was, it has left the record that hitherto that was the best period of our intelligence system in the country. And if that is what they accuse me of corruption, uh, let it be. Because I had to be I had to corrupt the people who gave us the information. I had to corrupt the friends that uh you call us uh cooperators from foreign countries. I had to buy this, I have to to pay for uh everyone who contributed information to them. You pay for every information, even among us yourselves, as you asked me a question, probably there's one or two that is uh getting paid from the system just to know you you're organized. And you're paid. There was a conviction, right? There was no conviction. But you spent months in prison. There was no conviction. But what happened was uh because they wanted to break me down and uh squeam what they expected that could scream deliberately, but they knew there was nothing. Uh they accused me of stealing 26 motor vehicles. 26 motor vehicles and these 26 motor vehicles were seated in state house. When the court asked for these vehicles, we we took court to state house, and these vehicles were in state house, 26 of them. And the keys were with state house. Not in your yard. No, the keys were not in your kitchen. No, not even at my official residence. Um, so that was the fallacy about those uh cases, those accusations. Now, to just to tell you something that might just start uh that case afresh. You know that uh M nam MMD um privatized uh ZCCM. Yes. Yes. Some of the friendly countries would have loved to keep ZCCM as one unit. But I think the MMD distributed and uh Ruancha was bought by somewhere else, and Changa was bought by somewhere else, and the privatization agency, yeah. Yes, yes. And that's what uh created what uh you are now talking about as a corruption case. Um they recruited some people within our systems and within our government, and they financed the task force to make sure that Chiluba was accused of theft. Yes. So the accusation was uh frivolous, as they would say in law. It was uh fake, completely fake. Uh there was no theft of any coin by Dr. Chiluba. As far as I'm concerned, Chiluba was a very innocent uh president. He never interfered in um the means of finance operations, he never interfered with my operations. In fact, I guided him. As a president, when you receive a present, please do not receive it with your hand. Give them this number or bank account and let them put that money in that bank account. So when you need it, uh it will be given to you. There's just nothing in our laws which restrict the president from receiving prayer presents, huh? Genuine presence. Not uh when you give them this, then they pay you this. But genuine presence. Qui proco. Yeah, no, no, no, not a quid pro colour. No, that's what I'm saying. That's what you did. Yeah, uh I told him because at some point, these people come and humiliate you. And they'll come out and say, but we gave you some money for school, and you are saying we want to give you more now. We want the drugs now to go through. So that was going to corrupt my president. So I asked that whoever gives you the money, that account called Zamtro, which was pronounced in the task force, is an account that is authorized to pick gifts from anybody. That is under the intelligence treaties globally. Uh there are countries, uh, foreign countries who have got their own accounts here. You know, there are those who have got element, intelligence elements here. Uh I know that some of the big countries in this country, they don't even keep money in the banks, they keep money in Aversax, huh? Yes, operations. So it's not about stealing any money. It was about committing a crime against those who were interested in Zim as a as a unit. And because it was he was the president and uh he had the intelligence, they assumed that the intelligence was the institution which gave him the advice uh not to to sell that entity to one institution. Um at this point, I I really just want to admit that I was not part of the privatization team. They had experts at mining, at uh privatization. Uh we were interesting uh to know how they were going about it, but we had no say in it. It was a political issue. Um so uh I came to be because I was his director general and I was that's why I was accused of uh corruption. And yet you fled. Before I fled, I had to wait to be uh convicted, and which I was not. There was no case for them to convict me for. And the thing that led me uh flee, uh, if you want to put it this way, is because I have finished the trials. Uh I finished the trial six months in prison on fake cases, uh and then I I'm out, I'm acquitted. I stay at home for five days, ten days. They take me for interviews at the police station, Woodlands Police Station, and then they arrest, detain me. And the next Monday I'm in prison again for another six months. Six months again. That is 34 months. The current government, would you? I've already been consulting the whole current government. I've been trying to help this and that. Okay. And I've done my part. I've done my part, and uh, whatever's gone wrong is not my uh problem. Uh we can understand, it's uh the system of administration that has been uh which has decided to break them in many pieces. So but Zambia tomorrow, that institution is a whole different institution. It is a whole different institution. Hold on, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:54:26

I don't know if you're hearing what he's saying. It's going to be the best institution. And I'll take my next question. You say Zambia tomorrow.

SPEAKER_05 2:54:34

Yes, what do you mean? I mean after elections, there'll be a new system here, and we can easily help to recreate. By new system, you mean a different government. Different government. So we can help recreate the institution. It's the second time that you've said this.

SPEAKER_04 2:54:46

You said very certain time. That's my next question.

SPEAKER_05 2:54:48

I was talking about AI. You know what? Okay. It's going to be the third time, it's going to be the hundredth time. One of the reasons why we should all come in to join politics is to help reorganize our institutions to better levels. For one, the intelligence system has been stuck for a while since the last ten, those ten years. And I've not seen any improvement from where I left it. Except for some distractions. 26 years ago. Yes. And what I have to offer to this country is a system that should disappear from here, but constantly with everybody. So that you are secure wherever you are, so that we can protect our country at all costs, and so that we can make use of our wealth uh properly. Because this institution should be a key factor in almost everything that we should be doing if we're if we are to make a new Zambia.

SPEAKER_35 2:55:47

We've got to go. Stephen Chung is the name. Coming to my question here. Stephen Chug is a name that has been well, not really in the public eye, if you know what I mean. But then 2026, three months before the election. Is it AI that was seeing that's coming up saying that she won't stand for president? That's you, the real you.

SPEAKER_05 2:56:08

Why not? You're running for president? Why not? Yes, why now? First thing is there's always a time for everything. The second thing is don't be surprised. Just ask the question. You didn't hear about this. What happened? I've been working on this project for many years, trying to help other people. And I can see that I've been seeing that they're all falling short. I've helped the presidents that have been in office to try and change uh the behavior of institutions in our country to benefit the people. I've seen that everything has been falling on deaf ears. Uh the last one is where I now see my president running the country alone. And that is very dangerous because tomorrow we won't have anybody in office. This country will be run by one person if we leave it to the way it is. What we want to do now is to join everybody and uh allow for the president to to rest, and together we change the country so that uh the people will be secure. The people can make decisions, the people can manage their constitution, uh, the people can have what they deserve. Um I want to work with everybody so that we have a country that is protected, that is secure. Um I want to work with my friends and everybody so that uh our wealth is managed by ourselves, the Zamians. We we we sell our our wealth, we get the money and build our country together.

SPEAKER_04 2:57:57

This changes the dynamic of this whole thing. Why don't you lead with this? So, bruh. So what what makes you the best candidate to carry that out?

SPEAKER_05 2:58:08

Yeah, because of what I'm saying and because of the mission I have for the country. First, I'm not going to segregate. Be you MMD, UPND, UNIP, and everybody. Our can our company called or party called the Liberal Democrats Party, is called open doors. What we want to do is to ensure that the wrong one doesn't come in after our president. So we have to join in and broker the deal. We're going to be like uh them the moderator, you know what I mean. Uh we're going to be the like the the the common denominator. So whoever comes in, we are going to work with them. So that we create a new institution, so we change the discipline of this country. We begin to respect our people, we begin to value ourselves, we begin to appreciate what we have. We are rich people. Your resource, the young generation in this country is so well enlightened. And uh we have a beautiful country. We can say we are landlocked and for good reasons, and we are also strategically uh located. We have to explore those uh situations. We are landlocked, so we must control, we must manage our country seriously. Uh strategically located because now we can get money from we can make a lot of money from the countries around us. They have to use our country to crisscross their world, crisscross their minerals. You know, we're such a gifted country. So we have to protect this and we have to work together as a people. We must love each other, we must embrace each other, uh, we must appreciate and value ourselves, that we own the wealth. And this wealth we have to protect, we have to um uh exchange with the people of God capital so that we can build our infrastructure, uh, we can build our uh uh new education system, we can develop uh new uh health delivery system, we have to have uh very robust uh agro industry. Uh together with beautiful value addition facilities, we make money, we we produce a lot, and we become a rich country, not just potentially but uh practically.

SPEAKER_35 3:00:38

But to show up pretty much out of the blue three months before the election, it feels more like you're positioning yourself for something else other than presidency this election. Why does it feel that way? Almost as if you know. And you know, like in instances when we just show up right before the election, you almost know that you might not win this election. You know what I mean? Right. Right. That's what I'm saying. It feels almost as if you're positioning yourself for something like what?

SPEAKER_05 3:01:04

Let me take something. Um I appreciate what you wanted to say. Yeah. There's no time, it's too short. There's never too short a time in politics. Okay. It's the message, it's the intention, and you're not coming from nowhere. People know you as Zeve Chung for a long time. When you say people, who do you mean? The population. Do they really? I don't know, but I believe so. If you're going to doubt that they don't know me, I think one month is good enough for me.