APPEARING ON DANE WATERS PROGRAM

LIVE NOW; I appeared on Dane Waters program and an update on the state of the nation

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Wake up to this morning news analysis show that provides facts, opinions, and reflections. On what the papers say, we frame key facts to provide a balanced perspective. Set the national agenda and focusing on cross-referencing newspaper coverage with primary data. Expert and special guests to offer an in-depth look at baby stories.

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On what the papers say, we frame key facts to provide a balanced perspective, set the national agenda and focusing on cross-referencing newspaper coverage with primary data. Expert and special guests to offer an in-depth look at baby stories.

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On what the papers say, we frame key facts to provide a balanced perspective, set the national agenda and focusing on cross-referencing newspaper coverage with primary data. Expert and special guests to offer an in-depth look at daily stories.

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Live on EMV, we talk about Manual Wonderfine.

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On what the papers say, we frame key facts to provide a balanced perspective, set the national agenda and focusing on cross-referencing newspaper coverage with primary data. Expert and special guests to offer an in-depth look at baby stories.

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On what the papers say, we frame key facts to provide a balanced perspective, set the national agenda and focusing on cross-referencing newspaper coverage with primary data. Expert and special guests to offer an in-depth look at daily stories.

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SPEAKER_11 6:30

Um I'll be on a program called Around the World with Dan Waters. Dan Waters is uh a weekly global affairs and news program, is hosted by renowned American policy specialist Dan Waters. So I'll be starting with that program. We'll come back to discuss the issues around Brian Munduvile and Makebizulu at uh Mukoveko Maximum Prison and the plans and plots that are there. Uh the lawyers were unable to see them, but we've had a few people that were allowed to see them and will give you uh a continuous update. Many many organizations have demanded for the release of Bran Munduil and Makebizulu that they should be released immediately. Uh the United Nations were the first one to call the charges bogus and um the process you know totally unnecessary, and government got offended because government wants us to believe that the charges are true. Government wants us to believe that there's foundation in those charges when they are purely malicious, political in nature, and designed to just punish political opponents, in this case, Bran Mundwili, who many now believe won that election. Looking at the results, looking at what they did, setting on the army, changing the results, inflating those numbers in the 32 constituencies and the manipulation that was done. There's a strong attempt to use the church organization's um uh report, um, the church observer mission's report to say, because there's a line that was implanted there that says even despite the manipulation and despite Tichirema being uh ECZ inflating his number, he won the elections anyway, maybe by 56% instead of 60%. Well, as soon as you tamper with the results, as soon as you staff the ballots, you've broken in uh in election observer process something called a chain of documents. That chain should never be broken. They broke the chain of custody of documents. As soon as you introduce new ballots, we don't know where they are from. As soon as you staff ballots, as soon as you inflate numbers, that entire election is uh uh uh uh is is invalid. So there's a great attempt to use the Church Observer Mission's report. There's a line there which they said, even if in these 32 constituencies, Ichilema's votes were highly inflated, some up to 40,000, 20,000. ECZ gave him those votes, they are saying he won the election anyway because he crossed a path of 50% plus one and he could have won around. No. As soon as you tamper with the results, the results become invalid. As soon as you break the custody of those documents, you break that chain where you introduce new ballots, where you manipulate fresh Gen 20, you that election is invalid. The process also to uh uh uh close the courts of law hasn't gone very well. The United Nations cited it, but it was a detailed report from uh from um from uh the Commonwealth that has demanded you know for various remedies immediately, including the release of Brian Mundwill and Makebizulu and others, including the issue of um including the issue of uh uh uh uh uh that the election petition election should be challenged. Then there's that story of the House of Representative uh you know who demanded that ECZ releases the poor results from polling stations because everyone is now aware that ECZ is in panic mode. It has sent officers to attempt to manipulate fresh results from polling station because everyone is demanding a my election in Zambia, they are at polling station. So then for there are those that want us in Zambia who are toying with government uh story, there are two two ideas that keep on coming up: due process and number two, move on. So for due process, they are saying, look, uh Makebi and Mundubile will have a day in their court, they will have a day in court, so let's allow the due process. How do you allow a due process to someone that wants him dead, to someone who wants him who sent assassins, to someone who keeps on trying to poison them while they are in prison? How do you even go for due process for someone who's determined to take them away and now they are in his custody, they are in his hands, and you are telling me due process? Come on, come on, move on, come on, you cannot move on with so many people hurt, so many people aggrieved, and with the atmosphere of fear. We can move on if there is justice. For example, what are you doing with the uh Geoffrey Jongo Ziele? What are you doing with him with all his impunity setting the army and for the first time in 64 years? We have an army standing in disrepute. Our armed uh uh defense and security forces are respected in our country. They are uh what would I say? It's sacrilegious to attack the army in Zambia. Our people love our army, they respect our army. You have Ziele, who has bastardized their name, they are standing in disrepute but of the action. Wa commando, who we call commando, our special forces, are such an elite unit. You rarely saw them. Sometimes it would take five years for you to see one. Now they are everywhere. But in my townships, everywhere. The role of the army is to protect us from the aggressor from outside the country. That's a role. Their role is in the borders. Unless internal security has broken down so much that you have insurrections, you have a broken down, then you can bring in the army in the country. And someone was saying, no, no, no, but they've always brought in the army during elections. Yes, you see them in townships. You don't see them at polling stations. The UN, the African Union Sadik bars completely. No soldier should be in the polling station, in the totaling center, in the talling center. They should be nowhere there. Even the video for Tonga, you see, although they behave very well, you see two commandos there escorting uh uh uh Roosevelt Tonga outside while civilians were beating him. And that cash sorry, let me not use that word. That cashmore boy who was hitting Roosevelt Tonga has never been arrested. So, for you calling for number one due process of the law, due process of the law works when justice reigns. You know that the justice system is correct, you know that the correction facilities will not allow poisoning and poison processes which we keep on rebuffing, we keep on hearing the plans that they are using. You can save due process if you know that your people are safe in the constitutional custody of the correction service. But you have all institutions working to eliminate Brian and Makebius. You have the army who sent in the special forces to kill them. Someone says, but they only shot him to Kafua. No, the only thing that saved Brian Munduwile, George Sanger, Bishop Trevor Mwamba, Patrick Mwanza in that bedroom is that it was Mrs. Munduwile and the three girls that those that were screaming, even an asylum, even a killer, they stopped in their tracks when you hear the screams of a woman, when you hear the screams of girls. That's what that's the only way. That's the only thing that stopped the bullets to go silent. But at that stage, they had already shot uh Mutotoya. So uh I'll be joining uh Denny Waters. Um in this program he explores major global events, geopolitical conflicts, and the fight for freedom and democracy across the world. Dan has interviewed various international experts, political figures, and journalists. And I'm privileged that Dan Waters found time to speak to me. Dan Waters has interviewed me. His podcast is um is called Around the World with Dan Waters and is a respected um policy analyst here in the United States. And he took time, he was in London, but he was very alarmed. He's very alarmed by the events in Zambia. He says, you know, we never heard about Zambia. Every time we heard about Zambia, it was a Victoria Falls or the Big Five or something nice, like there's been an election and there's been a change of government. We've never had these shenanigans. And they're not being reported by you, Emmanuel. We are watching them in international respected media. Bloomberg, Reuters, TRT, BBC, and American Networks here. And he says, no, come on, tell me what is happening in Zambia. And I'm I'm glad that I'm on this program that you should join. Um we will come back to review the newspapers and the events of the day. Let's join um let's join Dan Waters, who's uh uh US, you know, one of the leading American policy analysts. And he took time, he's in London, he took time to interview me. After this program, I will come back. I don't know if I'll have any team around me, but the program is for about about 45 minutes. But so let's watch Dan Waters as he covers the issues of Zambia and uh he had the privilege to be interviewed. So God bless you as you watch this program, share, share widely so that our people can see. We are coming back to answer all your questions. Oh, someone in this in the in the comments says, as you can see, I'm at a hotel room, I've moved to another state, um uh I'm I'm on an assignment, so I've left home, and uh my camera lighting may not be proper. And um, this is Shinch Sakurai in Ishwetech Sakura, but Shabunekafuino. So I've traveled to another state. This is at the hotel room, and um but we make do. If the volume is okay, if uh the video is okay, that's also okay. So share the broadcast as we watch Den Waters with me.

SPEAKER_12 18:13

It's always great to be here with each and every one of you. Um, what's going on around the world? I've talked about it numerous times on my show. Mother Nature. Mother Nature is not happy. I mean, when you looked at what happened in the city, which is just devastating, 50,000 is still missing. I mean, if you just look at the video, which is devastating. Philippines, they had uh over 50 things this year. Um watch, and um flooding is rampant. You saw what's happening in the Colorado River with flash floods and and five people killed in the Grand Canyon. Uh you look at you know uh Hawaii's being hit by you know the fourth hurricane this season. I mean, mother nature is unhappy. Global warming, Nina, whatever you want to call it. It's just the weather's changing. And I don't think politically people need to complain about it. It's the reality. So that's Mother Nature. What's happening on planet Earth with humans is that you know there's a uh huge upset in Germany, the AFD, the far-right party. Uh control. It's a big concern. We're gonna have a guest on our show um in the coming weeks to discuss that. Um, we just once again still continue to see what's happening uh with um Russia and Ukraine, and still we're trying to see what's happening in the Middle East. The world is a flux, the world's in a flutter. Um anyways, let's take a quick break from around the world in Dane Waters, and we'll be back uh with our first guest. Thank you.

SPEAKER_38 19:51

Some waiting to be told.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Do you think that the choice of just Americans have anything to do with Trump?

SPEAKER_23 19:59

I think we have a tendency to want everything to have something to do with Trump today. Real voices. So would you see there ever being a Palestinian state? Yes or no?

SPEAKER_42 20:07

I am not jumping up on that because of what kind of UTM Australia has done. Because these these are chicken countries when it comes to military might.

SPEAKER_38 20:16

Real people.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

And the rising sea level of food. So you choose. I think it's time to choose how you get the dynamics.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

So the fact that U.S. foreign policy has done some things that that frankly I'm not proud of in Iran.

SPEAKER_38 20:31

Each sharing what connects us all.

SPEAKER_34 20:33

There is no little light for women, and uh, education as clothes and bands for all women in Afghanistan.

SPEAKER_38 20:41

From London to Lagos, from Prague to Taipei, around the world with Danewaters brings together thinkers, dreamers, and doers. Conversations that cross borders, stories that bridge divides. Heard in over 60 countries, these stories travel farther than borders, inspiring hearts, sparking ideas, and reminding us how connected the world truly is. Don't miss Around the World with Dane Waters.

SPEAKER_12 21:14

Welcome back to Around the World with Dane Waters. I'm your host Dane Waters. It's always a great pleasure to be here with each and every one of you around the world. You know, right now I looked at our stats and we're now being listened to 102 countries, you know. I mean, some poor soul around the world listening to us all the time. So, you know, listen, let's just get to it. You know, there's a lot going on around the world. Uh, you know, we talk a lot about anti-authoritarianism and freedom and democracy on the show and bringing to light, you know, some of the atrocities and things that are happening. So we're very honored to have with us uh a guest from uh Zambia. So let me let me allow him to introduce himself and uh talk about his background a little bit. Welcome, Emmanuel, for being with us today.

SPEAKER_11 21:54

Thank you very much. I'm grateful and thank you uh again and wonderful work that you are doing. Around the world. I'm Emmanuel Mwamba. I've been a senior government official in Zambia. In the last eight years, before I joined politics, I was privileged to have been Zambia's ambassador, Zambia's High Commissioner to South Africa. I was again Zambia's ambassador to Ethiopia. I was again Zambia's permanent representative to the African Union and permanent representative to the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa until 2021, end of 2021. When I returned from diplomatic duties and came back in my country in Lusaka, I decided to join politics and I was actually among the presidential aspirants in our country. When the ruling party lost election, the party that was led by Edgar Chagualungu lost election, and there was a review of who should be our next leader. I was among the eight participants who had indicated that we wanted to be a leader of our party. I'm currently the official spokesperson for the opposition in Zambia, the Tonsei Pamozi Alliance, an alliance that featured the candidature of Brian Munduvile and Makebizolu. Brian Munduvile, as you know, was a leading candidate in the last election. Of course, it's purported to have been won by the incumbent president Hakainde Ichilema. That election remains disputed.

SPEAKER_12 23:37

Well, okay, so by the way, your bona fides is amazing and applaud. I applaud all those individuals that that you know do government service and try to spread the word of their host, their home country. So I applaud all your efforts. But let's go into let me just ask this blunt question. Do you think democracy is under attack in Zambia?

SPEAKER_11 23:56

Severely so. We have seen the last five years under President Hakainde Ichilema, who, by the way, dead, came under the banner of democracy, that uh it was going to restore democracy, was going to restore the rule of law. He had wide support in 2021, especially from young people. Um, Zambia was celebrated across Africa, especially that an opposition leader in President Hakainde H. Lem had won an election and power was actually given to him. That is a very rare uh occurrence in Africa that a member of the opposition can win election and then power is handed over to them by the, you know, by one who's incumbent and who's current head of state. That has only happened in a few countries like Ghana, ourselves, and uh one or two countries. But out of 55 countries in Africa, we we are highly respected. So to see the remarkable deterioration of standards of democracy in Zambia in the last five years has been very shocking. Then the president who won in 2021, President Hakainde Hichilema, went on a repressive path, an autocratic path. First, he enacted oppressive laws. He used cyber laws to weaponize them into uh uh laws that uh provided for repression of speech, repression of freedom of assembly, repression of any form of freedom. He used a law that should provide for cybercrimes and cybersecurity into a law for speech and speech offenses and related freedoms. He has passed other laws, including our constitution, where it was wholly amended without following the law, and when our constitutional court had guided how the constitutional court should how the constitution should be amended. He has passed an electoral role that literally, you know, uh uh closes space for accountability. Democracy in Zambia is under serious threat, then, especially when we discuss the nitty-gritty of this just past election.

SPEAKER_12 26:25

Well, that's the thing I want to point out. I mean, the thing I want the audience to understand is that this is not a what's interesting is I know the former, you know, the current president, I mean, he actually, you talk about him fighting for democracy. I mean, he actually uh well, I think he was arrested. I mean, you know, when he was running for president before, I mean, he's a guy who even I, you know, uh had heard of as a pro-democracy guy, wanting to really, you know, bring greater democracy and freedom to Africa. And you're spot on. I mean, Africa, as much as I love the continent, it's not known for its democracy and freedom and handover of power. So, but why do you think this happened to him? I mean, let's talk about specifically understanding the dynamics, and I also want to make it very clear. This isn't something that just happened for the election. As you talk about, uh, it is a it is it is a it's something that's been coming. And and the other thing I want to say, and please don't take offense to this, is that you know, there are a lot of parties in Africa when they lose the election, they automatically claim fraud with any proof of fraud. So I do want to come to that a little later and make it very clear to the audience that this is not just an opposition party saying, oh my god, it was stolen from me without any approve. There's a lot of examples as to exactly why this happened. So let's go back, number one, and ask you why what made him change? What why did he go from this guy that people thought was was about freedom and democracy to where he is now?

SPEAKER_11 27:40

In fact, then there was a lot of suspicion around him that he could not uphold democracy in the manner that he ran his own political party. Remember, his political party was in opposition for 23 years, and he had tried six times, and six times our people rejected him. We saw the traits of that he was inherently tribal in his approach of politics. He purged uh dissenting views. It's a party that he had taken over from um uh uh another statesman in our country called Anderson Mazoka. But when he took over the reins of the party, he purged senior leaders who were co-founders with um Anderson Mazooka. And he brought in what you would call yes boys, yes boys. He turned a party that was vibrant, democratic, that had appealed freedom of expression inside into an autocratic rule, unquestionable. He never even went to the general conference that should elect him as president for almost 15 years. So I think the people of Zambia saw the signs, and that's why they rejected him. But by 2021, the ruling party, the party I belonged to, the Patriotic Front, was battling a lot of issues. We had just come from the COVID era in 2020, 2021. Our economy was posting negative growth, the cost of living crisis was high, and the the ruling party then, the patriotic front, had been in power for 10 years, and it was deemed to have been arrogant. It allowed for political violence from its party cadres. The Zambians just rejected our party, and there was no alternative. He was the only man standing, and he had been in opposition for many years. So Zambians were escaping from a bad economy, a country experiencing serious cost of living crisis, a country that was heavily indebted, and they wanted a pathway. He had represented him himself as an economist, a businessman, and that he was Mr. Fixit. That was his uh uh campaign in 2021. He fit the bill. But lo and behold, as soon as he took over the power, he went for the ruling party, began to criminalize it, arrested as many people as possible on bogus charges of corruption. Yes, there could have been corruption, but he used corruption to round up as many of his competitors as possible. And nearly every opposition party leader was arrested in our country, especially on uh freedom of expression offenses. It was all of them were hate speeches. There were a few that were arrested and locked up for corruption, but essentially he began to weaponize law enforcement agencies and the fight, for example, against corruption to criminalize the opposition. And the statement began to come as early as 2022, 2023. The United States statement, you know, you know, the US usually does those annual reports and country reports on countries where they give support. Zambia uh has one of the biggest bilateral partners in the United States. For the last 20 years, they give our country grants, free money, up to $500 million a year. So the US is heavily invested in our country. And uh these are not loans like the loans we're getting from China. This is free. We grant to especially the health sector the support, you know, through PEPFA, the presidential initiative at a time when anti malaria, anti-malaria. Our country receives up to $500,000, $500 million a year. They flagged their country report. The State Department issued that annual report in 2023, that our government had quickly slid into authoritarianism, and that President Akainde H Lema didn't stop the issues that were being complained against by his predecessor, abuse of human rights, you know, restricting media and political space, violating rights and freedoms of our people, extrajudicial killings. So it was very damning. That was a first window. But many people gave him um like a honeymoon. They looked the other way. There was another report that came from the uh the IMF, the IMF of all people who were assessing us, and they had qualified President Akainde H Lima to get a loan of the $1.3 billion bailout loan. Even in their report, they expressed concern about the conflict in our country, that had uh the the the political tension in our country, and they cited even issues of human rights, that there were violations of human rights. And by 2024, now the reports were flaring, Amnesty International, you know, Human Rights Watch International, all these credible institutions, including the United Nations Human Rights Council, whose special rapporteur also issued a very big red flag against President Akainde Hilema that was violating human rights, he was repressing his political opponents and jailing them, conducting arbitrary arrest. He had uh as part of his advisory team a group called Brent Hurst Foundation, led by Dr. Greg Mills. They really did a job for him to clean up the mess, to seek a good publicity in various capitals in London, in France, in New York, Washington. He had good coverage. Then remember, he has the Tony Blair Foundation. The institute is at our state house as part of the advisory. They also engaged in good PR for him. So all these violations were must, but they became very, very clear towards the run-up to the elections. Because now the president was just doing things with impunity. He banned the largest opposition in our country, you know, banned a few candidates. And even the person that emerged as a leading presidential candidate, Brian Mundubile and his running mate Makebe, came from the odd party, but they didn't have time even to mobilize. They just used what we would call a special purpose vehicle to participate in the election, just any political party that was available for them to contest. But then it's an election results that are very telling. That the president literally lost this election. And we are just not singing like any opposition party. There are principles that the EU, SARDIC, and African Union follow. For example, there should be no military deployment into polling stations or near polling stations. This government, when the vote count started, and Brian Munuwile cleared was beginning to lead in most areas and appeared that would go for victory. The following day, we saw the military storm accounting centers, disrupt accounting centers, in many cases, confiscate what we'd call a Gen 20. The Gen 20 is a form, uh, audit form to track the votes, to track the counting at polling station, and when you take them to totaling centers, you track using a Gen 20 signed by both parties. The Army officials led the process to confiscate those forms and chase our monitors. And among monitors were the EU, SADIC, even our lawyers, the Law Association of Zambia, the church grouping that involved mother bodies, our church mother bodies, and other um ourselves as political parties were monitoring those elections. In major centers, we were chased from there. And resolved.

SPEAKER_12 36:36

So, yeah, we we talk about these these irregularities of polling. Once again, I mean, I'm just talking about the to the international audience because it's you're not the first political opposition party to claim this happened on election day, right? But but this is, I mean, so so these election monitoring groups from around the world, uh, have they issued their report to say that these irregularities occurred?

SPEAKER_11 37:00

Yes, then. So if you look at the EU observer mission report, it's very damning that government was using public resources. And when the vote counting started, they saw the disruption even from the military. And the Electoral Commission closed the counting for a period of 6 to 12 hours. And this closure of the polling of the counting related to violence that had occurred in you know at totling centers, again, the violence was occasioned by the ruling party, the UPND. Their thugs attacked isolated places in Lusaka and uh Kahwe. But the ECZ used this as an excuse to um to shut the counting. And when the counting resumed, President Akainde Hrema began to register unassailable lead. This has something to do with what happened, the interference, the breaking of the chain of custody of doc of documents and uh and ballots, because we saw now the introduction and staffing of ballots. So that tainted the election immediately. And the ruling parties in Africa have perfected the AC rigging. They will use the electoral commission body, the electoral management body is using to announce false results, and the you know, the rest of the world will say, but your election management body announced the result and declared him winner. So where is your problem? Because the electoral body is constitutional and it's independent. No, in our case, this body is not independent. It was staffed, it was stuffed with um uh party cuddles from the ruling party. We protested that the president must put in there the chairperson and the board and management that are independent, that are not affiliated to any political party. But he abused his powers and put his members, one of them is own personal lawyer, a gentleman called Zebianj Sinkala. I was part of the board of commissioners of the Electoral Commission of Zambia. So it was very clear that from 2021, with the culmination of these activities, then he had decided to steal this election because the culmination of all events using the military to storm our counting centers, using the electoral commission where he had packed it with his uh not independent people, but members of his political party. And it was the first time that we had the election management body run not by a chief justice, I mean by a Supreme Court Justice judge or constitutional court judge from 1991. That body has always been run by a judicial officer who's usually a high court judge or supreme court judge. It's the first time that we had a party cader, although qualified, although a lawyer, but it was a party cader and member of the UPND to head that. And then there were three others that were appointed again, openly so members of the UPND. And then we had uh uh the the management itself run by persons that were previously um previously uh uh uh disciplined for offenses relating to attempting to change election past election results to favor the UPND.

SPEAKER_12 40:43

So I don't want to have to give it, but this is it's you know it's amazing throughout Africa, and I'll say other parts of the world as well. I mean, you know, this is something also in Nigeria where you know the internet uh the the independent uh election commissions is not independent. I mean, one of the key key to any election is the the sovereignty and the independence of an electoral commission. And and listen, I'll be very clear. I I you know I I don't I don't have a dog in the fight, you know, who's who is the president of Zambia, but what I will say is that electorally, and what I've seen, is that there are serious concerns with this election. I mean, and once again, I want to say this. I have talked to many people throughout the world who claimed the election was stolen from them, and really it wasn't stolen from them, they're just sore losers. But in this case, I want to be very clear, this is not one of those examples. That this is a uh a methodic process over years about retaining power. And this is something that that the world needs to understand and needs to look at what happened in Zambia, because this is not an isolated case in Zambia, because what you see throughout Africa, as you were saying, is that I think it's uh was Zimbabwe or somewhere else where they're actually abolishing elections. I can't remember exactly where other other countries are abolishing elections. Uh so the democracy is is on the decline in Africa as a whole, uh, and Zambia is just uh sadly the latest chapter. What is the world community doing about this? What is the international community doing about this?

SPEAKER_11 42:05

Ben, so you like you've stated, this is no other uh cry baby story in Africa where the opposition always claims that election has been stolen. In this case, your your session and mass session is supported by these mission reports from SADIC, the regional body, from the African Union, you know, which gathers all Africans, uh African member states, and the European Union, and then there are independent bodies like uh Electoral Institute of Southern Africa, who also monitored elections, all of them have highlighted these gross irregularities that impacted on the outcome of this election. There has been condemnation against President Akainde Echilema, especially to the story that has gone viral, where when the leading candidate saw uh that there were concerns that there were going to be manipulation to the results, he held a press conference. They are accusing him that he declared himself president. No, he didn't. I think it was just alerting the country that look, looking at all the parallel vote tabulation that has taken place and looking at the reports that were uh occurring from you know countrywide, that he had won this election. The ruling party regarded that as a declaration of results by himself, that he had self-declared himself as president. And in the evening, while he was coming from a meeting with the Comesa African Union Joint Observer Mission, uh he was meeting them at one of our top hotels in Zambia, and his entourage of his officials and the security went to the residence. Just as they settled and were trying to have a cup of tea, the military with military vehicles, a tanker, brought down the gate, and there was a raid on it. His house that resulted in the killing of uh one of our former cabinet ministers, Mutotwe Kafwaya. Now, when they killed him and then they got the people that were there, 11 of them, for one reason or another, there was an international cry immediately because they had just come from uh a meeting with the you know these key dignitaries that had come to observe our elections. And when the word went round that there's been a military raid and shooting had taken place and maybe someone had died, there was so much pressure on the government. And we saw them within two hours release Brian Mundwill, the leading candidate. But they left the others. And Brian came to immediately to the media and he sought my, you know, I ran a podcast and immediately called, I was live on a program just reviewing events of the death, and narrated what had happened. That they had the military, the special unit of our army, the special forces had raided his house. There were over 100 of them. They had shot and feared for the life of one of his colleagues, former minister. It took five days for the party for government to accept that I was a military raid. It took five days for them to admit that they had killed our minister. That particular matter, you know, uh really, really marred our election. It was a pinnacle of all the irregularities going on. And we saw when the results were announced that uh Bran Mundwil and others were rounded up, locked up. He himself had sought shelter at the United Nations with his running mate. And there was uh a special envoy that was sent from the United Nations Secretary General to attempt to negotiate peace between them. But the UN failed, and the two were handed over to uh to the police, and they are currently at Mukoveko Maximum Prison, one of our oldest maximum prisons, and they've been charged with treason on allegation that they had set up a militia. Now, the allegation of a militia rises from uh from unfounded allegations. For one reason or another, they are hinging on the party. The party had sent uh in the last elections, let me just backtrack then. In the last uh in the last run to elections, Bran Moonwell and his campaign team, they kept on being raided. They got his security. You know, they kept on rounding up people around him and arresting them. Members of his secretariat that were to run what we call vote uh protection program and a parallel vote stabulation, they kept on rounding them up on the security. So for one reason or another, the someone from the secretariat said they needed to send three key people for training, for security training. So three boys were picked in June and sent to Russia for training for defensive driving at a civilian school and for V VIP protection at another civilian bodyguard school. That decision has haunted the party because now the current government is using that information that the sending of those three was to send to train people who should be members of a militia and are being held on those charges of treason on a very threadbare evidence. But it is again typical of a man that had decided that he was entitled to a second term at all cost, and he has locked up the person that is deemed to widely deemed to have won the election and has thrown him in prison, um uh uh citing treason charges. And then he has arrested nearly everyone around the party and Bran Moonville, up to 300 people are detained. And then the United Nations uh uh Human Rights Council has issued two major reports just in the last two weeks. The first one was by uh the body itself, which flagged off the misconduct of our government and uh that our government was violating human rights and was engaged in arbitrary arrest, and they were trying to influence the election in the negative side to support uh President Hakainde Ichilema. Just yesterday, a special rapporteur has issued another very strong uh statement. Uh Gina uh uh Romario has issued a very strong statement. She's a special rapporteur on you know rights, uh freedom of expression and freedom of assembly. Again, her statement is very damning against government. She has demanded for the immediate release of all those arrested, and she has defined the treason charges as concocted, and she has also stated that you know the charges are superior and they they should be released. But it goes to the repressive nature of our president. Our president has just gone all the way, he has thrown democracy outside the window. And for the first time, our country is being viewed in different light. Our country was known for rule of law, our country was known for respect to our law enforcement agencies, and due process, you know, like our courts of laws was always given respect because it truly was due process. But in Zambia now, you can't say there will be due process. Remember, just the other day, there's another matter that made international headline when the president closed all courts of laws to prevent his opponent from filing a legal challenge to his election. The courts were closed for over four days, although officially the courts were only closed for two days. Our constitution stipulates that if you are not happy with elections, you can file a petition and challenge the election results. And that's what we wanted to do as the opposition. We are civil, we're not going in the bush, we're not raise a rebellion, we are civil. We said, okay, the election is stolen, and we have wide-ranging evidence that this election is stolen. The presence of the military, the breaking of chain of custody of documents, the staffing of ballots, and the other irregularities that have been cited by all mission observer missions that were in our country. We said we have a legitimate case.

SPEAKER_12 50:50

Well, you do. Listen, I mean you've closed the courts. Well, let me ask you this question. Listen, I I I only wanted to have you for 25 minutes, but I have a lot more questions for you. Are you okay if you stay on for a few more minutes and we chat some more? Are you okay with that if we stay a little longer? Yes, Dan. I think let's let's handle the matters very thoroughly. So let me do this. I have I'm gonna take a quick break uh for the production. So I'm gonna say let's take a quick break from around the world with Dane Waters, and I will be back momentarily to continue this stimulating conversation. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_38 51:20

The world is full of stories, some hidden, some waiting to be told.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

Do you think that the choice of anything to do with it?

SPEAKER_23 51:30

I think we have a tendency to want everything to have something to do with today.

SPEAKER_38 52:19

Around the world with game waters brings together thinkers, dreamers, and doers. Conversations that cross borders, stories that bridge divides. Heard in over 60 countries, these stories travel farther than borders, inspiring hearts, sparking ideas, and reminding us how connected the world truly is. Don't miss Around the World with Dane Waters.

SPEAKER_12 52:52

Welcome back to Around the World with Dane Waters. Listen is a stimulating conversation with Emmanuel. Uh let's continue this conversation and hear more about the Christian Zambia. Thank you. So welcome back to Around the World with Dane Waters. You know, normally I would say we we our guests are like 20, 25 minutes, but I tell you, this conversation, there's a lot for the world to understand about what's going on in Zambia. And uh Emmanuel has agreed to graciously stay with us for a few more minutes and talk more about this. So, Emmanuel, listen, all the stuff you're talking about, wasn't it? I'm gonna be very clear to the audience. You know, I'm not a conspiracy guy. I you know I fight against you know people saying things that, you know, about claiming that they've been they've been, you know, the election stolen from them when it hasn't, but I I want to be very clear to the world. What's happening in Zambia is a perfect example of how an election is stolen and what's happening throughout Africa. So I'm gonna I'm gonna go away from Zambia for just a second, Emmanuel, because you you're a man of the world, you understand what's going on, and and I want to talk about the state of democracy throughout Africa as a whole. I mean, do you see this as a trend? We talk about it at the top of the show, but honestly, talk to me about is this a trend that we need to be concerned about throughout Africa?

SPEAKER_11 54:04

Yes, then we need to. There was a glorious period, you know, when in the 90s we began to abandon militarism in Africa, coup d'etat, one party state. Remember, the whole of Africa was either a military coup or uh military led or was led by one party states. There was no democracy. There was authoritarian. It was a period of what we call the big man. They were big statesmen, the Kaoundas, the Nereres, and no one bothered about issues of democracy and human rights. They were concerned about national development, and national development was a priority factor. Peace and security were a priority factor even to national development. Then came the 90s, glorious period where multi-party democracy was introduced across Africa. There was this wind of change, and young people in Africa celebrated that we're joining the rest of the civilized world in practicing democracy, in limiting the terms of our presidents, and in ensuring that uh there was rights and freedoms honored. Sadly, the last 10 years, we have seen a strong regression. We have backslid to the days of military coups. In fact, the African Union where I worked, we banned military coup. And if you conducted any change of government in an unconstitutional manner, we suspended you, we imposed sanctions, we would put even travel bans and we would attempt to isolate you as a member state. But look at the number of coup details that have just happened, especially in North Africa, in Niger, in Chad. There are few areas of democracy thriving, like Senegal and Ghana. Um the the second uh uh one is the cap to two terms. The presidents have become greedy, and you can see nearly every member state is attempting to remove that limit of the presidential term to two terms. Many are now extending from four years to seven years, or from five years to seven years, and they're removing the cap of um uh uh third term, a third term phenomena as immediately crept in in Africa. But these are the issues that have brought instability to Africa, that is threatening our peace and security, that is allowing for uh instability to creep in. But remember on the other side, with the geopolitics happening, for example, Africa is uh mineral resource rich, it's one of the wealthiest continents in the world. And sometimes the interest of America, of China, of Russia, France, UK is no longer about promoting democracy, but access to critical minerals. Like Zambia has copper, cobalt, lithium, manganese, and and and gold. And so the access to those to that wealth is has become a priority in their national interest, then the promotion of democracy, like it was, the promotion of human rights, has taken a backstage. So it's clearly a dark stage for Africa. And for example, an election has been brazenly stolen. There is supposed to be wide, wide, worldwide condemnation, and they silence why? In fact, states like the United States are given to send representatives to the inauguration of President Akainde H. Lema, who their own observer missions have said he has stolen an election. So the geopolitics around the world then has now put the issues of democracy, the issues of human rights, the issues of rights and freedoms of our people backstage. And they are now affronting their own economic interests as primary. So if this guy who has stolen an election looks like a candidate who would give them access to our minerals, well, they will support him and uh they will look the other way. And uh this is uh a trend that has emerged in Africa and it's a very saddening trend. The young people in Africa who form the bulk of our population need to be aware that their rights and freedoms are no longer priority to, you know, especially to the Western world.

SPEAKER_12 58:46

Well, let me let me add to that because you're spot on, and I'm glad we continue this conversation because there has been an erosion. More governments, you know, you talk about the United States and China and Russia and others, they they're they're they're basically transactional governments. They want what's in their best interest. I mean, they want, you know, and what we're seeing around the world is that foreign policy is being decided by what natural resources they can take from a country. You know, we have a society where, you know, countries like the United States and others no longer lead with talking about freedom and democracy. They talk about what natural resources can we take from a specific country. Now, I understand that, you know, in American interests or Chinese interests and Russian interests, right? We need to have natural resources. I mean, I understand all that, but but but they're forsaking, you know, freedom and democracy and the protection of freedom and democracy. And that's what you see. And I think it's atrocious. I mean, I'd be very honest with you. I think it's crazy that the American uh government uh is is sending representatives to uh to the inauguration of the president, knowing all the trials and tribulations and things that have happened. So it is a problem in that the young people, once again, I'm glad you bring this up, you know, uh the young people need to understand um the importance of freedom and democracy. I mean, we've gotten to the point where you look at these countries around the world, and tell me your thoughts on this, but we look at what's happening where these countries around the world are being silent on the importance of human rights, uh, are being silent on the point of freedom and democracy. And if you're a young individual and you see, hey, if America's not standing up, China's not, China's never going to stand up, Russia's not, but even Europe, you know, France is not standing up, France left West Africa, you know, you got, you know, you got countries abandoning what's happening in Western Sahara, you got all this stuff going on. If you're a if you're a young adult in in Africa, you think that why should I care if these other countries which always talk about freedom and democracy don't care? So, I mean, how you know how would you respond to that? Do you think that these global partners are setting the wrong precedent or sending the wrong message to the young people?

SPEAKER_11 1:00:43

The outcome is negative and severe. That is why you are seeing a migration of young people. They are dying on the Mediterranean, trying to cross to Europe for a better life. Because in their homes, in their countries, they want a government that creates employment, they want a government that respects the rights and freedoms, they want a government that can provide economic opportunities to allow them to go to school, to colleges, and obtain skills. And they are not seeing any hope. That is why Europe has this crisis where thousands and thousands of Africans are trying to seek shelter and space in their countries. And then they wonder why there is this crisis. Well, because you have not strengthened the economies in Africa, you have not supported the economies in Africa, that the young people will be um persuaded to stay. In fact, um you see the regression of young people, either they wallow in abuse of both drugs and alcohol, or in those that want to have a better life, then rush to either Europe or America to try to get a better life. Those are the repercussions when you look the other side. If you strengthen Africa, you allow for it to exploit its resources equitably, trade properly, and benefit from those resources. You will empower their local economies and their people will not, there will be no this urban drift and drift to Europe. And you will not have problems on your doorsteps, border crisis, these people coming in boats, in small boats and in stowaway uh matters. There is always a repercussion, and Europe and America are not seeing it. It's very important that we promote democracy in Africa. The project of democracy must succeed in Africa. If it fails, the repercussion is on their doorsteps, as we have seen.

SPEAKER_12 1:02:55

Yeah, no, I think that this is a very important conversation from the standpoint of, you know, like, you know, the president of the United States wants to talk about America first. And here in the UK, where I am currently, you know, the immigration issue is a big issue and talk about. And I was just in Italy, and they're talking about all the, as you're talking about, the migrants coming across the Mediterranean to come into Italy and then go over to take over Europe. I mean, the reality is no one no one wants to leave paradise, right? So if you create a better economy in a country, if you help stimulate that economy, then people are not going to leave that country. Okay? You know, then people argue, well, it's not our responsibility to help the Zambian economy. It's not our responsibility to help the Congo economy. But the reality is, okay, it may not be your responsibility, but if you're going to sit there and complain about immigrants coming into your country, the number one way, instead of trying to arrest them across the English Channel, is to try to help their homeland be better so they don't want to leave in the first place. And then that by default helps their country grow, like Zambia. If you create a strong middle class and you don't have the brain drain, it will grow economically, people aren't going to leave. So even if countries want to be out of their own self-interest to limit immigration, then help these countries grow. Help them grow. But I want to touch on one other thing you said, because you talk about Ghana a lot. And Ghana, I mean, you know, I love Ghana. It is a it is a democratic place. But most Ghanaians I know talk about, you know, how their natural resources are controlled by other other other governments and other countries. I mean, through the old colonial days. I mean, the reality is the Ghanaian legislature at any moment in time can renegotiate those deals and make something change. But then you have the whole corruption issue across Africa, where the people in power, I'm not casting any aspersions, but they get paid to keep the contracts the way they are. And so, but you know, in one hand, I'm not talking about Zambia, but but in some ways I am. The people in these countries need to take but greater control of their country, but they need foreign support in order to do it. And there needs to be a relationship. These countries that decide to close their borders and not help countries like Zambia is to their own detriment. So, you know, um, you know, and I I hate to ramble, but I want to say one.

SPEAKER_11 1:05:05

Then you you cite something very important. They're all of multinationals in Africa. In my own country, um, a commercial mining giant called Fisquantum has been cited by global reports. One of them is Global Witness Report that has cited that it has a pervasive relationship with our president. And during the five years that he's been president, he has enacted incentives, you know, laws and incentives that has benefited directly to these multinationals. So their conduct and also the destruction of our democracy, they are part to it as they promote their own interests. Can you imagine that up in billions of dollars literally have escaped our domestic revenue because the minds who are the sponsored candidates allow. For 21 allowed for the relaxation of taxation policy around mining and mining activities and passed laws that ensured in the name of promoting foreign investment, in the name of that we want the mines to invest in the actual mining because mining is very expensive. But in the end, there is a mine houses and these multinationals that are walking out with billions of dollars from our country, and they are paying very little uh from uh the resource that they are getting from our country. So other than countries looking away when they are getting these abuses, when an election has been stolen, when rights are violated, it's a multinationals that are prepaying and playing a very dirty role where they pick a candidate, impose a candidate, while the people of that country will have voted for that candidate is merely a puppet of the masters that gave him the money for that election. And you immediately see it in policies that are enacted that they abolish wind for taxes, you know, a profit sharing mechanism. For example, the copper the price of copper is at its historical high in the last hundred years. Copper has always traded around $3,000, $5,000. $8,000 has been the highest. But now our copper is selling at $14,000. $13,000 per turn. This is the highest in over 100 years that we've seen those prices. And usually the price sharing mechanism to such a wind for attacks and wind for profits are enacted, but not in our country. So the billions, for example, the energy revolution that is using these critical minerals is bypassing benefits to Africa. We are not benefiting anything. You know, for the last two years, the price of copper has been standing at around $13,000, $14,000. But what's our benefit as a country? And this is a country for over 50, 60 years, the price of copper was just around $3,000 a ton, $5,000 a ton. And the damage the multinationals are doing to our countries is um other than the environmental damage they are doing. The resources that we are denied from taxes and from uh from fair and just taxes, is that we remain poor. Wow, we are a very wealthy country. We fail to transition and become a Singapore, a South Korea, or a China because you have multinationals that have bought our ruling class and then they they puppeteer them for whatever they want. And President Haka Inde HL must be named in these international reports, and he's even been cited with a mining firm that is accused of being a puppet too. So these are very serious issues. And the matter in Ghana is no different from Zambia. We were told under globalization in the 90s that we needed to privatize, allow the private sector to come in Africa, be liberal markets because they bring uh uh you know benefits to our people, democratize our enterprises, and allow uh multinationals to come in, but it has not benefited us. What we have seen is a looting and plunder of Africa as well.

SPEAKER_12 1:09:43

Well, listen, sadly, we're out of time, and and I wish I could continue this conversation, but the reality is I want to once again, and I'm glad you're on the show, and I applaud all that you're doing to stand up for freedom and democracy and and stand up for the rights of Zambian citizens. Uh it's it's it's it's heartwarming to know that there are individuals out there like you willing to do this. And I implore the audience, I implore the global audience to to look into this and to do what they can do to help their to help Zambians uh understand, you know, and and protect their freedom and democracy. Uh so my hats off to you, Emmanuel, and and I really appreciate you taking the time to be on the show. And we will do everything that we can to spread the word about what's happening there. Okay, so thank you very much.

SPEAKER_11 1:10:23

Again, I'm grateful and thank you to your dear audience. And you know, the fight for democracy in Zambia is a fight for democracy in Africa. We let this democracy project fail in Africa, or will have failed Africa because we're being held as an example of where Africa should go if we are to take the benefits of the wealth and resources that Africa as democracy fails in Zambia, democracy fails in Africa. Thank you, Dane.

SPEAKER_12 1:10:49

Well said. Anyway, thanks for being with Dane Waters around the world with Dane Waters, and I look forward to seeing you again next week. Thanks a lot.

SPEAKER_09 1:11:14

Wake up to this morning news analysis show that provides facts, opinions, and reflections. On what the papers say, we frame key facts to provide a balanced perspective, set the national agenda and focusing on cross-referencing newspaper coverage with primary data. Expert special guests to offer an in-depth look at David stories.

SPEAKER_39 1:11:40

Live on EMV, we talk about manual number 35.

SPEAKER_11 1:12:00

Thank you very much for all that joined us. That was my interview. And now, as a Zambian, as an African, privilege to be on that to discuss the issue of our elections. I don't know what your views are, I don't know what your uh feelings are, but I try to be as national as possible, to as blunt to the facts as possible. And Dan Waters is an ordinary guy, but he's a well-read, well respected across the world. You cannot fool him. Thank you very much. And he's been following the issues for me to be on this program. Um I am usually on many programs, but I thought that this particular program which we've just had, we could share. Uh let me welcome Bran Matambo, our media director for Tonsei Famoze in Zambia, and um is in Kalulushi. Uh he suffered recent losses. Oh, I see where the problem is. I don't have the microphone. Because when I wear these things, too many things to wear. So the microphone was um uh uh uh that's why the the message was so far away. I could hear myself so far away. So uh Brian Matambo is uh media director and uh he helps me in today's analysis. So before we go to what the newspapers say, um I've just had that interview with uh Dan Waters, uh, you know, he's uh an American policy specialist and he deals with international affairs, like many, many people, as you saw in the strong statement from the United Nations, from Commonwealth, from the Anglicans in Africa, the very flurry of statements demanding that Zambia has regressed in its democracy, there's an election stolen, and there are innocent people sitting in prison in the maximum security facility on bogus and concocted charges. And these are not my views, views of the UN, views of the Commonwealth that have also demanded the release of Bran, Munduil, and Makebezul. It should take shame by the president if he really wants to move on. Even those nice pictures of what's happening in parliament will not wish away or wash away the fundamental issues that have taken place. I saw uh a statement coming from Zumani that everyone should recognize the president. It was Zumani, just Chaku Cola. You know, he really is spoiling for a fight, but is beneath us, will not discuss him. It's difficult to discuss matters with treacherous people that are in the pockets of others. It's very, very difficult to engage in a sober discussion. Brian, let me bring you in. Your reflections on my interview before I bring in what the papers said.

SPEAKER_10 1:15:06

Uh Ambassador, you were quite much on point in that interview. Um, and I listened to I think at least 40, I think 85% of it. I came in, I think, a little bit uh late at about 7.15, somewhere there. Um, but very, very insightful. Um, and I want to say that one of the things that I think everybody needs to pay attention to uh regarding what you said there is how Europe and um and the West and the East need to just pay so much more attention to what is happening in Zambia and to what is happening in Africa as a whole. Because if they don't, they'll be affected. Now we know that the interest in our mineral resources makes them look away from some of these things, but that's not the right way to do it. And if if when there's a sane government, a properly elected government, even their investment in Zambia will be done in a much proper way. We can have a mutually beneficial business transaction between Africa and the West. And that is the way that it should be. Um, but if they look away, they might benefit a little bit from the minerals and so on and so forth, but they will have an immigration problem at their hands. They will have a drugs problem at their hands, they will have all these other problems at their hands because, like you said, Ambassador, you will have young people uh, you know, migrating to Europe, migrating to the USA and so on and so forth. And the that will be a problem that they will have to face. So I would really advise that uh our friends in Europe and and and the Americas and even on the eastern side, in China and so on and so forth, they need to pay attention to what is happening in Zambia. They need to pay attention to the crisis here and and lift a voice. It's very disappointing, I must say, when when you look at what uh Donald Trump did and cast a blind eye after all the talk about the Lobito corridor and something like this happens, and then you even send a representative for the inauguration. That wasn't even an inauguration. Why should Donald Trump be sending a representative to a to a traditional ceremony, to a coronation? You saw how it was. There were snakes or people dressed in red throughout the stadium, and uh they were and the opposition members are packed up at the Mukoveko Maximum Prison. What does that look like? And then America is part of it, really? They need to be ashamed, they need to be ashamed and they need to think seriously about their political, um, I mean about their diplomatic stance on this issue. They need to really think seriously, because this this sends a very bad dent on what America stands for. They can't claim they will go to Iraq and and free the people of Iraq and then come to Africa and support a dictatorship. It doesn't make sense at all. That duplicity, that the that dichotomy, that's that that just the the the the the hypocrisy is is is um you know disappointing to say the least, to be decent in my ways, very, very disappointing. You can't go to one side of the world and say, oh, we're going to we're going to do this, we're going, we're going to free the people of Iraq and free the people of Iran and free them. Then you come to Africa and say, oh, no, no, you can go on with it. You get to go on with your dictatorship and and you know, local people. We even send a representative to your in to your coronation. I think I think people need to sit and think carefully about what they are doing because the young people of Africa are watching. And this is going to be remembered many, many years down the line. And these relationships are important, they should not be taken for granted. That was something very, very important. And I hope both our corporating partners and Africans and Zambians are paying attention to these details. Because uh when one nation in you know in the global community is going through what we are going through here in Zambia, I think the whole world needs to care. I think the whole world needs to pay attention, you know, and if you can't do anything about it, at least don't send your people here to pretend like what happened here is is decent. Uh, if you remember, Ambassador, the American ambassador to Zambia was very clear, uh Gonzalez before he left. And and we were so proud of his contributions and and how he condemned corruption, how he exposed so many things. And that's the that's the trajectory of that relationship that we needed to continue seeing, where our American friends really care about about you know uh about us as Zambians because we have a relationship, you know, and if they want to trade with us and they want our copper, it should be based on that same spirit, the spirit that Gonzalez showed, where there's decency, there's mutual respect, where there's consideration, and and and you don't have a situation where you know you think what why don't these people kafula was killed in cold blood. I would really have loved Donald Trump to say we cannot have that happening, instead of sending you know uh a representative for to the to the coronation. Very, very disappointing. So that that was a very powerful interview, sir.

SPEAKER_11 1:20:30

I'm grateful, Brian. And we'll hear from our our our audience. Let me go quickly to what the newspapers say. I don't intend to stay long today because I've got a special guest. As you can see, I'm at a hotel room somewhere, and uh I'll have I'll reveal to you a special guest I'm going to host tonight at 20. So I just need to take some rest for about two, three hours. So this broadcast will be quite short. I think it was intended that we quickly cover what Dan Waters was covering on his platform. Yeah, let's go to the papers. Over 3,500 medics jobless. This is Resident Medical Association of uh uh uh of doctors in Zambia. They are talking about 3,500 medics that uh are jobless. The doctors, it's only our country where you have doctors unemployed, it doesn't make sense. Uh the Commonwealth lawyers statement, I think is a very powerful statement, and it's being quoted there by Daily Nation uh because it attends to the post-election crisis. It's unethical for the military to threaten citizens. A lot of people don't know that Professor uh you know Ngoma, who was Copa Belch University Chancellor, Vice Chancellor, is a military man. He, you know, he transcended from the military to the academic. He was one of those very educated uh soldiers and uh, you know, up to up to peace and security matters, where he's an expert and is a professor. So he's speaking on the invasion of um uh first on the threatening of uh citizens, because that statement that has been issued by the Zambia Army has backfired terribly. And I'm glad that the army have been decent to allow the statement on their page, even when citizens have come to there ridiculing them, telling them off. I think it shows how our people want our army accountable and are not happy with what Ziele and Moses Shapoya did. They think that their conduct is criminal. Many are celebrating that some people have reported them to the International Criminal Crimes Court. So maybe we should do it properly. I in Fewafishte report Ziele to Arishwa. Nama Bata niakutinika you will have a response immediately. Maybe now if we we have to join that. But I'm glad that the Zambia Army hasn't dropped that. I think the administrator uh of the page tried hard because I I saw some comments that would later be deleted, but largely they've allowed the protest by Zambians who have come to that page, you know. And Zambians are disciplinarian, they're disciplinarians, and they've come to that page to tell of the army that their conduct in their last election was totally unacceptable. Um the story of uh our dear brother Celestine Mukandila. We exposed yesterday that there's an attempt to have him deported. Zambian government wrote to the DRSC government where they wanted to ascertain the father of uh of uh Celestine Mukandila and establish his identity in the DRSC. And we have stated that Celestina has never hidden that his father is from DRC. Do you want him to disown his father? He has never disowned. All he says is um I all I know is that, you know, I was in the DRC until I was nine years old. When my mother returned home in Chamber, and since then I've been in this country. And there are many people that have been at school with uh Celestine Mukandila. Um, you know, and they can testify that they've they've known him for a long time. And uh Celestine is entitled to seek um his heritage, either from the father or from the mother. In this case, his mother picked him up when he was nine and is a Zambian, but someone is trying to criminalize her because of politics. So that's a story. Uh, in the must um Kasune, Princess Kasune, you know, from Kembe says, don't forget the people. She knows because she's been an MP since 20, I think 2016. So she's gone into the third term. So she I think she knows the importance of people and for you to be relevant as an MP. MPs get excited, they buy new suits, you know, they live at uh National Assembly, they all of a sudden they're big cars, and they have accumulated their social status. They are social adders, jumped, and they forget about the poor from the constituency where they come from. And before long, it has been five years, they'll be bootlegging the state, they'll be getting media coverage, but in the end, they will have done nothing. So Princess Kasune is uh giving a timely warning. Uh SkyDets, pick and pay deal with face quantum backing. I need to look at that story. You know, I'm always attracted to business stories, and I want to understand the ploy behind because our people don't bother about these issues, even when our country is being sold. So it's in small stories like that for me. I take them very seriously. So I want to understand this, I'll take time to read it. This newspaper is rarely on our page, but I've always said whoever runs a newspaper in Zambia, my phone is everywhere. You can even get in touch with me through Facebook. Come share what you are writing. Time has come to put our names and reputation on the line for Zambia, says Brian Mushimba. I'm ready to save Iris Kaingu. A message of congratulation and the call for inclusive governance. I think uh uh to President Hakainde Ichile, the martyrdom of the past and the making of an icon. But the lead story is that this is a country of laws, proof treason, militia, and they are quoting Mwanza. I don't have the full story, I don't know which Mwansa they are quoting. Uh recognition of H H a sitting president via meaningful dialogue reconciliation with Brian Munduvile. Then an intelligent leader reads the sign and moves with the people. Shakas. I don't know which shakas that are. That is, I need to read the actual story. Umv, we are discussing the story from the Commonwealth. We think that that was a very fundamental statement. And we've reported on citizens that have reported ZLA. They've just gone to the site of the prosecutor at the ICC and they've registered their concern. And they think that Ziele must be uh investigated for crimes against humanity and for the killing of Mutoto Kafwaya and attendant issues such as invading polling stations to subvert the will of Zambians, um heal post-election wounds. This is an appeal to President Hakainde Chilema by the Anglican Church in Africa. That's what we are leading with.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:27

Uh Brian, what are your views? You are muted, Brian.

SPEAKER_10 1:28:39

Oh, yes, yes, yes. So very interesting um headlines there across and it's uh shocking that uh we have doctors and medics who are not employed in Zambia. And this is the reason why people were uh why people voted for Brian Mundible because they made a promise that they will continue to build from where the patriotic front had left off of. So the the idea of you know seeing more new hospitals and getting these doctors somewhere to work from. That that really excited a lot of people, including myself, because imagine Zambia becoming a health tourism sport where all the countries around can come and access health care because we have big hospitals and hospitals all over the country. That is where we should have been headed. But we now have a government who doesn't care about development, all they care about is the graphs and how they look and so on and so forth, and reserves without interpreting those things into real issues in those lives. Um, when the Anglicans say that there be dialogue, I think that is a very important issue to consider. We do need dialogue, and by dialogue, we are not saying we we we we kind is him as president. The man is just is is an imposter right now, as far as I'm concerned. He stole that election, he knows it. If he doesn't, bring me and him on EMV with disgust, and I will show him that he stole that election, and there are things that show, and he knows it. Um and he's a very intelligent man, and I'll say this. He can't come to a platform and talk about it. He knows what he did, he's going to let this thing slide because he knows what he did. And the only uh panacea to what we are going through as a country is really dialogue. And and and I hope the church uh once again uh moves away from this egotistic approach to how they're doing things and worrying about their reputation and whatnot, and come to a place of priesthood so that they can you know provide a platform for dialogue, not siding with anybody, but siding with the people of Zambia. And that's very important. Soldiers should not threaten the public. That post on uh on on social media, and I left a comment there as well. Very interesting again. I think sometimes you can just be looking on one side of things, Ambassador. But so much respect for the army for leaving that state uh that that post there and allowing, even though they've deleted some posts, but allowing you know other comments to still be there. I think I think it's time to say, okay, you guys made a mistake. Maybe fish out the bad eggs, but this is beginning to show that there's a bit of maturity on your side. You're listening to people, and I hope the army is actually listening and reading those comments and being able to say, okay, why are people so upset? What can we improve? Because at the end of the day, we need the army, and the army needs to clean up. All those bad eggs, whoever issued those commands that ended up killing an innocent civilian in front of children, they need to coat march with those people and and bring this matter to a public conclusion and a logical end. The issue about Celestine Mkandila Ambassador, again, for me, I'm really, really upset about that issue. Celestine Mkandela is someone we have on for a very, very long time. He's a businessman in Lusaka, he's a lawyer, he has worked as a civil servant who doesn't know Celestine Mkandila. Now, it it's okay for uh for Frankie Musonda, for example, and I wrote yesterday in a statement, it is okay for Frankie Musonda to play for the Zambia national team. He was born outside Zambia, one of his parents is Zambian, and the other parent is British. He has the right to perform alongside his friends in the Zambia national team. That's good. And we love that. He's a good footballer. Awesome. But then it is not okay for Celestine Mkandila to actually participate in affairs of this country. Same situation. One of his parents is Zambian, the other parent is Congolese. He was born in Congo, he's grown up in Zambia. Actually, more than even Frankie spent his most of his life, Celestine, in Zambia. But he can't participate in Zambian politics. He has become, you know, uh of deportation. I think, I think let's be fair. This is politics, this is tribal. And I am not rescinding on that position. The targeting of Celestine Mukandila is a tribal issue and it's a partisan issue and it must be stopped. Whoever is behind this needs to find in their own space, in their own heart, the you know, self-rebuke and stop this behavior. It cannot continue. We cannot be thinking it's pretty primitive thinking. I think let me make a comment about Iris Kaingu. Now, Iris Kaengu is somebody I've known on a personal level. We did together. She features in it, she featured in a documentary that I filmed. So I got to know her. I got to know her dad and and her sister. In fact, her elder sister was a good friend of mine. Uh, she passed away a couple of years ago, and and I was really heartbroken. Actually, the elder sister was the one who was even a closer friend of mine who introduced me to Iris Kaengo. And I've known Iris to be a fighter. She cannot be stopped. When she believes in something, she keeps going. She doesn't let anything bring her down. To me, it may have surprised a lot of people out there, but to me, uh, having known Iris Kaengo now for seven, eight years, maybe even nine years, I'm not surprised that she's she's gone to that level. She and she can go higher, make no mistake. Iris Kaengo is determined. She she she doesn't let anything bring her down. People could be saying one thing and she's headed into a different direction and just believing in herself. And it is so great to see. And I hope young people are seen that when you go through a dark time in your life, it should not determine your future. Your past cannot write your future. You can redesign your life uh based on your self-belief. And so it's really awesome to see some inspiration of that nature. Uh, then that there's a story of proving that yes, indeed, this is a militia. Uh, this government is in trouble. You know, you concoct a story, ambassador, like that. Oh, there's a militia here, or they're you know, there's treason here, and you can't prove it. Now we've heard that they have uh moved the the some of the people who are protecting Bran Mundibile from Kobeko to Mwembesha. They you know, you know, hiding, trying to see probably, and the allegation is that probably they're trying to speak to these people who are Mundibile security, uh, to try and coax them into uh you know becoming state witnesses and speaking against Bran Mundivile. Um, you know, unfortunately, we know what they are trying to do. It's come out, and um, we can't we can't sit back and and and we will have to preempt these things. If you're going to turn uh members of Brand Mundwile's security detail against Bran Mundivile to create some kind of uh, you know, uh, some kind of uh uh storyline that that there was a militia, I think you'll have a lot to prove. You have to show where those guns came from and let's trust them together. Let's stress those guns. Bring them, bring those weapons, and let's trace them backwards and see who had them and where they came from. And and and and weapons like that need to be traceable. Okay, and and I think Zambians don't know the level of technology this country. Uh you can't have a militia and the state doesn't know. But that's a fake story. They would have known a long time ago, they would have traced it. But also, what is surprising, Ambassador, when you're talking about the militia story, if Bram Mundubile was running a militia for three years, why is Makebi Zulu involved? Because Bran Mundwile and Makebizulu only worked together for three months before the elections. That's when they came together. Why what is what is Makebi Zulu doing in this story? Uh, you know, if Bran Mundwile was operating the militia for three years, that that it's just you just begin to see how broken this storyline is. It's it's not going anywhere. Think about it. Even if Bran Mundo was was doing the some was running a militia for three years, and and and and and makebizulu, how how does that make sense? Because we know that makes since Edgar Lungu died, uh, over a year, he was busy with the family, and that's in public domain. We are aware of what was happening, we can trust it, trust his involvement on that side. Okay, fine. Let's talk about um uh uh Chris Zumani Zimba. Isn't he the one who literally grabbed the Tonse Alliance from Nakakinda and Lubinda and and they came up together with with Mundivile and they went on their own way? You know, Bran Mundivile and Zumani Zimba, and they were there, the Tonse Alliance. Why is Chris Zumanizimba not at Mukoveko? If he had been working with Bran Mundivile all this time with the Tonse Alliance, and they came together, they brought in uh Make Bizulu until election day. How is it that the Secretary General, the CEO of the organization is roaming free in the streets when his partner is in Mukoveko? Does it even make sense? Who can buy that story? They will have a hard time to sell and prove that story. They will have a hard time because just the things that we are seeing, they are not making sense. So, very interesting stories today from the newspapers, Ambassador.

SPEAKER_11 1:38:54

Um, there's a matter of concern. A lot of people have sent me this video. Max Moen, and you know, I want to speak about someone senior, about someone of gravitas. This, not this corruption-accused young man who has failed to account for the 77 million he got from ZNS and the favors he got from there. But he issues unpalatable statements. Remember his statement against the US ambassador and the recent statement against the United Nations, where is among those that have joined the call that President Akainde Chemu must withdraw from the UN. Do they even know what the UN means? Have they seen the number of programs that are supported by their ministries? In you know, that literally this government is standing because of uh the UN. But however, what has riled people is his latest statement, where he has ridiculed the death of Mutotukafuya. He's even compared the death of Mutotukafuya to Adam Show, Adamson Mushallah, that you know Mutotu Kafa literally was just an insurgent and the police had the right to kill him, and that there's no need to investigate. Investigate what a bullet was fired and the man died. See how dismissive he was. But this is this is um the contempt that the UPND deal with serious issues like this. Just listen to this.

SPEAKER_15 1:40:20

Are you satisfied that the security forces have acted within the law? And would you support an independent investigation into any allegations of excessive?

SPEAKER_04 1:40:32

What would you call an independent when you say can we have an independent body? What is it exactly that we want the independent body to do so that it does what to establish what? How this man has been killed is not a thing. Answering your question, you are looking for an independent body to what to get to resurrect the dead or to do what the question is using which law because you have the number police which has been established by the law to investigate crime. Some of them are teachers, others are in agriculture. So you must be very careful how you are you are you are pushing the conversation. Some of those are simply advocates. Maybe someone did political science, they have never done political investigation from whatever angle you look at it. This is not a unique case. I'll give you an example. There was one where Mushalla was guided down. What was Mushallah doing? It was a read about Mushala. So answering your question, you are looking for an independent body to what to get to resurrect the dead or to do what they have. They have told you. You can even do you can get a pathology. You want to to to to to to establish that it is a good exactly. Family members are also free to do that if they are able to sustain the money. Those are options that are available. But I should also tell you that when you say can we have an independent body? What is it exactly we want the independent body to do? So that it does what to establish what it is.

SPEAKER_15 1:43:00

I'm not saying that I I know any law, but I'm saying that would you be open to uh an idea like that? Because there are people who uh it's not proven, but there are three statements of people who are in that house different statement. You know the house I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:17

No, I don't know. Okay, you are you are giving some third area moderate. I don't really want to delve into this, but anyway.

SPEAKER_11 1:43:25

Shosta, thank you very much for that video, Shosta, and thank you for um the insights. But that video has packed outrage, Brian. Uh look at how dismissive the he is about the life of Mutotwe Kafwaya. Comparing him to the killing of Adamson Mushallah, you know, who addressed a rebellion against Dr. Kenneth Kaunda. The circumstances are not even comparable. Mutotue Kafua was not a militia. There's no single evidence, no ayota of truth. And look how he dismisses the call. Both laws, the churches, and others have called for independent investigations in this matter. The United Nations, even the Commonwealth yesterday, the Anglican Church, everyone who's commented about this matter, who's expressed alarm at this death, have called for an independent investigation. Because the killers can't investigate themselves. You know. And look how dismissive Max Moore is, contemptuous. But he's a representative, he's a spokesperson of the UPND. We take it this is a feeling in their camp. You know, you and I play the role of spokesperson in our lives. First of all, you need to know the mind of first of your organization and of your leaders before you speak. I can tell you, Max Moore is regularly called by President Dakainde Echilema and other senior leaders. That is a mindset they have. They are so contemptuous even to the death. They are not remorseful, they don't regret it. And just look how contemptuous it is. I don't know what your views are as we open the phone lines. Uh, like I said, today's broadcast will be short and quick because we have a special guest at 20 hours Zambian time.

SPEAKER_10 1:45:19

Yeah, Ambassador, again, you know, I remember not too long ago, just before the elections, should have been a day before the elections, I was supposed to be on the same platform with Max Moore uh at Diamond TV, and uh he came late. I don't I already I did my interview and left before he got there. And uh he's he's not kind of person that I actually would have wanted to sit with. Because I think at some point, if you're a media person, if you're a spokesperson or if you're a media director, you should have the decency to speak um with respect, especially when you're dealing with issues of life and death and so on and so forth. There has to be some decency, I think, to put it simply. Um and he lacks that. And and and like you say, the his comments around the the the US ambassador, for example, these comments around the the United Nations and how he comes out as if, you know, like like he has been sent as as an attack dog to just issue these statements and put them in public domain. And um, but we we we take those words seriously because I think um I want to believe that they are sending him to make those statements. And and and and I think they miss their civics class because they seem not to understand that this government relies a lot on on UN institutions and to just dismiss what the UN says just like that. I think says a lot about their behavior and attitude. Um Max Moore to me is just is not even fit to hold that position, and um he doesn't have the required decorum and and and mindset to be a spokesperson of a ruling party or to be a media director in the ruling party. You know during our time as PF when we we had PF, we we had media director, Sander Chanda, even though he's lost his way, but but at least we had someone who could hold ground and speak about something. Then we had Antonio Mwanza, I mean very eloquent and and so on and so forth. So we when you see the the levels drop to maximum, you begin to wonder, but we're sure this law, sure. You know, where where instead of having a discussion over real important issues, he begins to talk down on human life. I would have expected him to show condolences to the family. There are children involved in this. You know, that that is something sensitive. Okay, you you we can do politics, but we we are still human beings. At least you know on that issue. I don't want to discuss that issue. There's a widow, there are orphans and young children, and and I think I'll leave that to law enforcement to handle. And you leave the issue because you you don't want to politicize the death of somebody. And he knows the circumstances and the in which you know uh Mutoto Kafaya was killed. And and he knows and he can't just say they can sue the state if they can sustain it. Oh, okay. We will wait. There's going to be a day when someone is going to be answerable in life or after this life. That day is going to come. And that guy is supposed to be an evangelist in the Seventh-day Church. He has read all their Tuma books. You know, he's behaving like he's carrying the mark of the beast. That is not how Christ would speak about issues. That attitude, it is until Christ. And the seventh day are very, very simple.

SPEAKER_11 1:48:55

I think withdraw that the you know, religious text.

SPEAKER_10 1:48:59

No, no, no, no, no. Actually, those really those religious texts are very important. That's my point. And he has read them. He has read them and he's embarrassing the seventh day. It was to my books. I meant I meant it, I meant it in a positive way, really. Like they are really nice books. And and and and half of my family is seventh day, by the way. And I'm sure my my uncle is watching right now. He's seventh day is another than the seventh day. Half of my family is seventh day. So I know I've read the books. I have some of those books. And some of my friends are seventh day. And he's an evangelist. He travels around preaching about Christ, bringing people to God. That's what he does. Max Moore is supposed to be an evangelist. Now, if we just rewind to his conversation, to his interview, does that represent an evangelist mindset? That did he speak like someone who speaks for Christ? He's speaking as if it is someone who Speaks for the Antichrist. And I think a seventh day, he knows what I what I mean by even making reference to the Antichrist. That is what is this sounds like an Antichrist. And you cannot speak about orphans and about widows and about someone who was killed in the manner that he was killed. Like that. You cannot compare elder Mutotwakua's death to Mushalla's death. It is improper in every way that you want to think of it. We are aware for 20 years. You know, and in that house where he was, we know the story. Can't make anything up. They are coming from a meeting with Komessa, they get to the house, the army arrives, they shoot it, dies. What what insangency is there? What what rebellion is there? Why what militia activity is there from traveling from the hotel to the house and you get shot? Very wrong mindset, very wrong thinking. And if yet he keeps forgetting that this is a guy who has a 77 million question over his head, all right? He has money that he has not paid back. And so we know how it works in the UPND. You owe them something like that, you do their dirty work, you do their bidding. So I'm sure they sent him to go and do to speak like that because Akhain Tech Lima himself will not come to the media and talk like that. He will come try to look statesmanly, you know, and avoid the issue and skate around the issue. But he will send a person like that to come and do the dirty work, and it's very unfortunate because it is his reputation on the line, and God will hold him responsible. I don't see him ever finding his way into paradise.

SPEAKER_11 1:51:45

Thank you very much. Before we we go to phone, because there have been some development that we've been tracking on this show. We raised the lobby for uh you know Honorable Justice Annie Mwewa Stadi, where the police stomped the house three, four weeks ago, picked her like an arm dropper, and she's been detained at um Richard Kachingwe police post in Kawata until yesterday. She pushed in, I think, uh an a habeas corpus application, and I think before the court could grant it, they issued a police bond. Uh just look at the abuse of the process where you keep a person three weeks outside the law, outside what the constitution provides, and you do not charge them, even when you charge them and the offenses are available, you don't present them before court, and you don't present them or give them police bond. We have a case of uh one person who in in Mongo who is one of the drivers for Brian Mundu. I'll get back to it, was given bail yesterday, he's also been imprisoned, you know, for the last 37 days in Mongo. Yesterday he appeared in court and the charge totally ridiculous. Conduct likely to cause you know, you know, the disruption of peace. After 37 days, they had no charge, they couldn't even just release him, but he was given a police board, and we are tracking that matter, and we hope that he can come out or give you the details and names of that gentleman. Um remains perilous for us. We recognize there are many people trying to do their best, and um and uh Max Mamko Maximum, but we are hearing this sinister traps and motive to attempt to poison uh Brad Mundula and Makebezulu and others, and like you said in the earlier remarks, uh the three ex-servicemen have been moved away from um uh from Mukoweko, and we understand they've been taken to Mwimbeshi. Uh the fear of poisoning Brad Mundula should alarm those people that keep on saying that due process. Due process and weawan to awanka who intend to take away their lives, especially when the charges are founded, especially when the charges are malicious, especially when everyone has seen through this process that these are political prisoners. Political prisoners simply means you are abusing the criminal and judicial process to host and hold uh your political opponents, punish your political opponents using the law. It's part of lawfare, it's part of a malicious square, and that's why quickly the UN and Commonwealth have called those as uh uh political prisoners, and indeed they are, and we demand for their immediate release. Bran, unless you have something to say, let's go to the to the audience so that we can hear what they are saying and we can close quickly.

SPEAKER_15 1:55:18

Are you satisfied that the security forces have acted within the law? And would you support an independent?

SPEAKER_11 1:57:24

Yeah, I apologize. I apologize, the number is so busy, but um make your contribution.

SPEAKER_14 1:57:31

Thank you so much. So, my contribution, sir, is that uh please take up this matter of reporting the and the entire command structure of the security that was involved in the planning and the issuance of this order to go and kill Toto Gafoya. Take it up, join those that have taken the matter and you are more cumbersome, and I've been waiting for you actually to take up this matter. Another contribution that I want to make is that uh try to form a formidable lobby group that would engage, use your um your your your your diplomatic uh uh credentials to try and garbanize like-mind governments, organizations that would speak so that this matter in Zambia is resolved. We cannot allow people that have expressed their their rights, they have voted the government out, and then the government decides to sit to ignore what the people have done. What is there left for the people to do? If at all democratic means of erecting leaders is stolen from them through the use of the military. These issues, sir, use your diplomatic credentials and ensure that a matter is is addressed quickly. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_11 1:59:18

Thank you very much. The lines are so busy already. Let's see how we can quickly take as many calls as possible.

SPEAKER_13 2:00:56

Anyway, as I can fala, we are not in the car.

SPEAKER_11 2:02:03

Yeah. Okay. Hello, caller, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_40 2:02:11

I'm calling from Copper Belt.

SPEAKER_11 2:02:13

Mk. Landeni poeman move M Kware.

SPEAKER_40 2:02:18

In a contribution, mwamba nywe to take. Nah, to make a tika Sanaba mwamba lenu uh na tule kokum for music was again dismo. So amaka yadi muri mwe you know won't say amazing baby ki Amaka Murima because again D because if you want the file and propaganda. So please try the women to save us because you know it's a baby. We think we are safe. We are not safe because one to Bamba. After we shall have maritia, it was never meeting. So we appreciate it. And then Avalia Pam Papa social media criticized by you no lava four fiasana by you. Avari we eat in my line. Now by you in Basan Kabasan Kinsoka, Baba Basan Kensukantu, Baba Boom, my Malay. So now Baba Foom. So it's a child in ya munduria for Kutilati now the poison. So target my paya marida. I could find your marida. I'm a paper to the member. There's a few minnowish because otherwise these people are here for people. Various authority, Mary Chita use authority. Daniel Vari Mukwaser Mukalam for me, Papa. We are sang of Daniel. We are sang after anything to Adi. My Malay. So please remember. Tapakweak plan Yaku de Cavanto. Tapakweek plan Yakuwa Demitimaku V. They are call but once Madama meet, but I want somebody of a supporter. They are on Pariba Pia. So that one kick charity at Yahweh. If we season for ordinary season of we can't even entertain if you have we are scoping and we are suffering. Just imagine even if you like that if you have a government.

SPEAKER_11 2:06:20

Thank you, Cola. Thank you very much. Let's take some more calls. Thank you, my brother. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution. And Tam Kwai.

SPEAKER_28 2:06:43

Um Zambianzi, we must know that there are only two types. Why I say this? Because if you baben Babaku Baku, Malibati, abiling to Balamuku Mbela Pulakuku kasenga pula kuria. So abengi pune bamantu pumebabakulu wapula. Balupa wensuba mutuba bachakuku nanikane ku kukongo. The kubatu kongo. Mini bantukuyamba mindi banikalaka kukongo na kule kutiaku kukunaniku kasengakuli. Nabengina banikalaka musambia. Kazin mi bati mimi nikomu bakuwa kongo a pana. Mina bandukuyamba mingi banikalaka kukongo. Nakule kuteze mimi. Nakule kukase nga. Yamba yama ya yakabina tu nikalaka kulegi tuko ba bemba bemba bakulu wapula ki reu zambia. Soe nanikaniwa waku kongo, nanny waku kongo, kam nanma waponi wan wwa zambia wakoniwa wako. Okay, so the quantum papu in tundu. A baby ababi bam, bamba kani bakukongo, bambakuapula. So the webati na wakuapula, bani pula, baby kennyi anamakuwa pula kuebati bale bali bangi mitundu, but it to balled to pivani mitundu. So mufina mum wema zambian. Nami mamwem toba mku umbela ku nanikan. Mum change bakala mobika poi zony mufia kuria. Mukale namu send dame she Ganamuamu Parliament, because bakala mi fiya. So mufida mwa change and wema Zambiani. Natotela mam.

SPEAKER_11 2:08:51

Thank you very much. Let's um let's um take your cause. Alakola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_13 2:09:04

Yes, one banaw chiputuka, and I go for vin.

SPEAKER_11 2:09:08

Mkwai.

SPEAKER_13 2:09:11

Even a childanda. I changed the paco, the pavesia la chitika, the pavesia lavum. When history had zamia to a tubaka wunda, to a murich my chalo. The daughter to vote upon a poly and a poa pa toting sent anama soldier. That's a terrifytika. Nariumba muewa Iricianya, good social media, mole landabalifo. Bamwanoko mulimwafia shivesu. Constitution Yalupa prova charuch switch. Besaboba muewa.

SPEAKER_11 2:09:47

Besaboba muewa. Kuriba soldja masoldja, but the complaining of the the yeah, but the the the the police spokesperson no em quai, okay, okay. I just wanted to be clear.

SPEAKER_13 2:10:04

Yes. But yeah, manuabombere unomuaka. My licenia on waka. Tatuata tu mona kuama soldia munika unda tua thanchula. Tatuatalida tu munapu to pigimishamu sanguamene po patoto in senta, I'ma soldia na veka andabama soldia. You have to ishaban commandos. But you tatuash meot as that water tali at munapu, unika unda, shall we some toap to a pacaswana ban to fiano him. Fuben a wake up women Zambia. A my election. Two abote in August. Who got to a revotewari? Tacuari Chimfruunganya Nguchimo, Wali Votere Wino, why she money chimfruungan chai says to a fish among to take a foyer. Tip fourteen, one nineteen to twenty hours. Ishi Fronga Mweteama so ja commando zi Bamba Mucharota Twikeri wino. Ucharuta twikeri wino, gachabutila, bali de low. Y governmentaba twalfuava, tuabana vina muanda sad diki, nabambi, ngachabu tilaba ishiava putana twision w shwatiabanava. Avan to put by tam proposo whoy no la badivina twalfu ni government yoko y re toale twenty ninete yabalanda. Bamuabangata to wishabapi. Abuba kesai ka mori twenty ninetewa maxum smo Tatuakale landangev to manapia pamila vasa. Because waka to be kila meteba to e keriapu keriapa to kesavapu afia. Otherwise wino. If Ibam to kafuya wisa mushala. Pusana no dia pan patalisan apatarisan. Tika wunga, natury wali no bananaya. It's a girl table mutuamika wiza, some of pizza, but a bidoku lava fabusala.

SPEAKER_11 2:12:42

Thank you very much, my brother. Let's hear from other callers. Hello, caller, please. Tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_18 2:13:12

Because I heard the gentleman on the show today talking about America, Europe to be involved and concerned about what's happening in Africa, including our country. Ambassador, uh I think this is just my personal opinion. I think Africa, including Mozambia, we abuse religion, we do abuse the name of God. Because if it is ticker, Mozambia, there won't be anyone to help us. Americans or the Europeans, they have done so well for themselves. Their lives are set. These people have been living in affluence, you know, like to the fullest. They've been living life to the fullest. They do well. They did this by themselves. They didn't ask farmer Asians or Africans or anyone to help them. They came to Africa because they understood what they were lacking and they were looking for it. And they came to Africa, did what they did for their own good. We have to do things for ourselves. It's like Lesadupela, Amano, and able bodies to do everything. But if we are Meteor Lesa, if if it's a Muzambia, if we have Zambians who can handle let's tell those people, my institutions, Kasuna Ku judiciary, security wings, top leaders who are making commands. I'm a Zambians, we should tell them. You work for us. You are paid from the money we pay you. So you have to do what's right by the people, not the other people who are key, than you. We have to do it ourselves, not calling on the Americans or the European Union or on God. Let's leave God alone for some time because God always does his part. He has already done his part. We have to do our part. I think this is where we misunderstand. You will handle that which you cannot handle. But if you don't handle as a human being, if you have in your power, you have to do it yourself. In fact, you see someone. You can see my Asian countries like China. Why is it economically? But it's a paper as much as we pray there. It's because there is a God and there is Mother Nature and the universe. Also, Mother Nature. So anyone, whether you were atheist, Muslim, Buddhist, if you are following the laws of Mother Nature, things will work to your favor. Then what happens in the spiritual world in our afterlife? Then there's an issue between you and less. You can wonder who Africa go to pepasan, give to mistake recognized. Because we've misunderstood all these things. What's happening now in Zambia? The European Union can do only so much. The Americans can only do so much. The Asians, but 90% of the work, we have to do it ourselves. We have to stand up. I know they are gagging us, but there's always a way Zambians are smarter than anyone as a collective. Anyone individual as a collective. So I'm appealing to all Zambians. We have to take our lives in our own hands. God is always watching over us and doing those things that are out of our control, the things we don't see. But other things, we have to do them ourselves. We have to take on this life for ourselves. Then other people come and join in. Thank you, Ambassador.

SPEAKER_11 2:17:12

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Mavo, from Italy. And uh thank you very much for your wise counsel. Alo Cola, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_25 2:17:24

Uh, this is precious in Livingstone.

SPEAKER_11 2:17:28

Yes, precious.

SPEAKER_25 2:17:30

Yeah, uh, want to contribute on the issue that I'm seeing over the leaders in Zambia and also uh the citizens. You know, uh the God has already opened the what's the doors for us for allowing uh Magebizura and Wabran Munuir to be leaders because right now what I know myself is they are the ones who won elections. So God has already sanikaloto, but the problem is we have selfish leaders who used their position to get what they want. And these are the leaders who have put us in this serious condition. Therefore, wise leaders and concerned citizens, I was not expecting them to allow a president to continue taking advantage of people of Zambia. Quite all right, yes, the International Criminal Court of Law, they can help us like in this issue of killings, which was happening during the election times. But as Zambian people, we are the ones who are supposed to stand and fight for what is right. Because if us Zambian people, if we keep quiet like nothing happened, you cannot expect these other leaders in other countries to be concerned very much. It's supposed to start with us. Now, if you as Zambian people, you are seeing the challenges that we are passing through. It is you supposed to do to fight for what is right. So now our president Waka Indechemba has the habit of saying he's calling for dialogue. How can he call for dialogue given? Wabenu Mpundo was saying he's calling for peace. Which peace? Which peace can he make with Waka Indechemba when he failed to make peace with Wabran Mundube, who won against him? You can say that Wabran Mundubede he has been sent in prison even when he knows from deep down his heart that he did not commit any crimes. So is this the man you can say that you are calling for peace? Which peace are you talking about, Wabenu? You know, ah, anyway, I'm disappointed with what is happening in this country. Anyway, thank you very much, Honorable. I have nothing much to say.

SPEAKER_11 2:19:46

Thank you. Alo Cola, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_02 2:19:52

Uh good morning, Ambassador Mwamba.

SPEAKER_11 2:19:55

Good morning, my dear brother.

SPEAKER_02 2:19:57

And good morning, Director uh Brian Matambo.

SPEAKER_11 2:20:01

He's listening to you, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:20:04

Yes, uh, I want just to add, I know people we have we have been calling for Ambassador Mwamba to be at the center of the stage. You are already at the center of the stage. You have done what you could, but the rest is us, the Zambians. Zambians, let's stand out to defend our constitution, to protect our constitution as it enshrined in the constitution. Whether there is cyber laws and so forth, the constitution will give us that mandate that we are supposed to defend and protect. As long as we are not coming out, we are not talking about the affairs of this country. The UPND will take advantage, and that's why they are saying up to 2090. Now, when you calculate 2019, President Againde was born in 1962, up to 2019 it will be 128 years. So I wonder how these UPND think that uh HH is going to be president even when he has 128 years. And this is where they are trying now to pollute our mind so that we believe that the only political party at the moment is UPND. When our history has told us that we have changed president, his number seven president, and we had even changed number eight. We all know how they lobbed Brian Munduya and Bakebizuru. Now, it's us Zambians, the way we voted, this is how we are supposed to say we must protect our vote. We protected our vote, but we didn't do much. And this is the time. Let's not listen to the Zambia army with the story of the Meritia. These stories is just trying to uh push us aside to say that no, uh there's Mauritia. We cannot have Mauritia in Kablonga, even where I stay in the shanti compound. There is no way you can have a Mauritia. If we brand Munduwiri and Makebe had Meritia, some of us would have been part of the Mauritia. But we know what we have done and we know how we campaigned and the issue which uh UPND government they have been doing. If you remember Wamwamba, you remember the issue of gussing. They were saying PF were the people who are behind gussing, and when I come, I'm going to bring so I'm going to arrest those who are doing gussing. President Yakainde up to now he has never even arrested one apart from Comrade Zuman, who was arrested and later on he was charged for terrorism. When you look at how our brother Zuman also is trying to connect, when you connect the dots, you are going to find that he looks like he's the person who is at the center stage trying to kill the hope of the Zambians. So Zambians were watching, and I want just to remind even our brother Max Move, you are being used. You remember there was Vene Chanda Chimba. They were being used. Equal yourself, you are being used, but you don't realize that even the way you talk, you are not 100%, and you even the way you speak as a representative of the any uh UPND, you are the ambassador of the UPND, and this is exactly what President Akainde Ichirema is thinking. And this is what they have been telling us that in Zambia, this time around, we are going to do. If you hear you heard also, even Leswaniso, he was saying, uh Brian Mundu, my brother, I'm advising you 20 uh 41, 20. You know, they are not gods. Zambians rest stand up and speak for ourselves. And when we speak for ourselves, Commonwealth UN, they will have also now strength to support us. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_11 2:24:11

Thank you. Thank you, my dear brother. Thank you. Let's let's get on. Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_22 2:24:20

Hello, my name is Um Shilung Bulua. I'm calling from Pluto.

SPEAKER_11 2:24:24

Make your contribution, my dear brother.

SPEAKER_22 2:24:27

Yeah. Um, I just wanted to uh uh to emphasize on those people who are saying that um you know we have to fight like this this gentleman from from Italy. Uh he said that Zambian if we doesn't know how it feels because I'll give you an example. I respect you much. So you need to respect people in Zambia. So they should respect people in Zambia because they are they are cowards, they are not cowards. If you try to organize so that maybe you can protest, the ring leaders, so we need to work together. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_11 2:25:42

Thank you very much, thank you, thank you. Make your contribution will be closing very, very soon. We don't want to go overboard because we've got another engagement today at 20 hours tune in. We'll have a special guest that um we are hosting at 20 hours Zambian time, and we want you to join that debate. So we'll be ending this broadcast quite quite quickly. Hello, caller, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution. Make your call identify yourself and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_29 2:26:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_11 2:26:36

Um you are through to the program. Don't listen to your other program where you are listening to on your other device. Listen to me, make your contributions.

SPEAKER_29 2:26:51

Oh yeah. No, but I wanted to make a contribution up TV because that's where I hear what they are saying.

SPEAKER_11 2:26:59

No contribution blame you for the whole country and all is listening to you.

SPEAKER_29 2:27:13

Oh, okay. Okay, in any nevo Zambia. But if you feel lunch, especially Italian that's ambient, if we twachina mlesa we suarishwama Chinese Tabai Shwalesa. But Sabata Avengi, Tabai Shwalesu to Pepa. If I'm Mzambia, we are real, real Christians who pepales. Number, if we Tatule Kwata se so mwemantwaleza in each mebana ma bengi, tokachi, to le lumbukati toka yebanayu, kuriba e chi, so that tukalandena be nanga fweba fiashi fueva firi abanabose fwa sungaba nam to feso. Fwema penny free kapari ababa nabalefwa abale kwa. Because if as a parent, as parents to long fo move fit each ticker. No put to a mumuntu, wing that to land in a copper by each to kayandanabo. Toka manuba fabri pizza, fish fidget sticker, fishamp poke zambia. Lingo tavana, but tampoko like byano zambou. Mando kuima for my elections. Tapwali umoso joke, ma, for my elections. Quite to me combacapolo fair wapu na bacapocola fechapwa. Numba if you share some poke to come zambia. She let's papucha. She teach a linga, we shall we's anat to taluka, to banava Israeli, we shall to the quiza, you m Egypti tuli because in the party channel, it's ava it, abantwait, abantova coo, abantova quite me to me Zambia, because in a fiarona in the fearful. But Zambia, Ivan Tobaki Pata Peace meet him. Um peace meeting to a laya quiz.

SPEAKER_11 2:29:42

Natasha Mayo Natasha Sanamayo M quite Natasha Sanamayo. Thank you for your wisdom. Thank you, Mayo. Thank you very much. Thank you, ma'am. Let's listen to another caller. Uh alo caller, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_05 2:30:04

Are you getting me? You are getting me?

SPEAKER_11 2:30:08

Yes, we are.

SPEAKER_05 2:30:10

I want to address Vachiruf Tayadi. He really wants his friend to be deported. What is going to become of Kia? Kia, I can passport Zambia with opia. But if Samukana is a Zambian, there are so many people that have married from other countries. We should learn to be accommodative. But I've taken your son. Thank you.

SPEAKER_11 2:30:54

Thank you very much, Lessia. From the caller. Hello, caller. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from.

SPEAKER_20 2:31:02

Yes, I'm calling from uh Germany. I want to make my contribution.

SPEAKER_40 2:31:06

Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_20 2:31:07

Uh I'm listening to Zambians their cry. I want to tell you that uh the army, no matter how they are trained, no matter how weapons they have, they cannot defeat the people in Zambia. What you should remember is in Afghanistan, the Germans, the Americans, the Australians, they said there were five million soldiers there. They were defeated by young boys without guns. So if the army is forcing the people to have a leader, there's certain people they don't want, there's certain people they will rise. No matter what time it will take, but they will rise. You know, Zambians don't need weapons to defeat the army. In Zambia there are rivers. For anybody to exist needs water, and water is the most powerful weapon. The life of Zambians, the life that you have, is the most powerful weapon. Because if today you say we want to die for our lives, 5,000 people go to Araka and Barak, the soldier will be powerless. So the government of Zambia is waging a war against the citizens of that country. That is stupid, commanders that are sending the people to kill innocent people there, they will not care. Because Zambia will not fight with weapons, they will fight with their own lives. People in Afghanistan fought with their lives. You know, your life is the most weapon you can use. So if the army, army commander, has become an army, has decided to be against the army that feed him. That army commander is you the same guy who is feeding him. That's how that is getting him. That's where he has, we have to use that in order to be a commander. You understand? So the army continues apparently people. The army has no has no capacity to defeat the Sandy people. Now they are taken in to reach a time when the work. Fighting a fellow army, he's fighting civilians, people without guns. He's also even going to an extent of telling lies that there is a militia in Zambia. Do you know how many intelligence organizations like Zambia? CIA, FBI, KGB, BNRD, all these people are in Zambia. And they are laughing. They are saying, what kind of a foolish army commander is this who can tell such lies? It is foolish what he's doing. And he is trying to force the Zambians to wage war against their own army. And he need to be defeated. Listen, listen, Zambian people, listen, Zambian people. No one should treat you, and no one should be hitting you. No one should. He has children, he has a family there. If he continues, no one will drink water. No one will drink the water there because the water supply is poisoned. No one will buy you well to drive anywhere. So be careful. Don't be intimidated by stupid foolish comic commander. You understand? That is your country. And let's not even the president directly new. That is your country. You have nowhere to go. So if they don't make you to live free, fight them. You have no choice. Don't don't accept that they treat you as if you are in. That's not your country. They are a commander should not do that. Don't accept it. Let me tell you, don't be scared of uh of commandos. The commandos they cannot defeat you. They can't, they can't. Do you know? Do you know? We are this is 2026. Yeah, we are living in a world of science. We are not living in war now. And going and do a fitness studio there and fight people. Modern war is different, totally different. It's a long, long time.

SPEAKER_11 2:36:17

Allo, colour, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_24 2:36:38

Hello.

SPEAKER_11 2:36:39

Hello, Cola. Please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution. Mulenga from Kapiri, make your contribution, my brother.

SPEAKER_24 2:36:53

Yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes, Ambassador. Yes, the situation is not okay. Fear has been instituted in the people. But you know, in life, like that colleague from Germany has said, there's a time that a people reach a point of saturation. And when they reach that point, uh they will react. Now, the the other issue nande poyakwa max mwe. You know, Max Mue Ngale, and I don't know if Max Mue uh, if they sit down, button tonga nyukumona, whatever they are going to put forward in. Or they just you know, it's like umtu who does not put whatever he wants to say uh together, all walambo landa. And they give my examples. I have even a two-year-old child, what is he talking about, really? You you cannot compare issue. How old was Max Moore when Mushalla? Because I um I'm 53. The time quality, it was around the from seven, maybe 79 to somewhere 80. How old was Max Moore? Did he even know about that story or he just read? So, Max Moen Gale Landa he must be he must be very careful. And this is a group I'm an SDA. I'm one never done the SDA, but uh I'm I'm disappointed. Number one, from the president himself, HH, is coming from that change. Number two, uh John Losorochi is coming from that change. Number three, in fact, most of the members about PND, if you check on them, if you check where the church they are coming from, it's from SDA. But look at the these atrocities that they are committing or the crimes they are committing, and on a Saturday they are going to church. These people are supposed to be disciplined by the church. And because of that reason, because of the behaviors, you know, I've stopped going to that church. Because I cannot be entering a church with the with the people who are murderers, with the people who are hypocrites, with the people who are thieves, because Maximum has failed to pay that money. He's a thief. That is what it means. But these are the people who are going to that church, and the church has failed to discipline them. That church, no banana yonaia church. Our church has been destroyed. And no one can look at that church with a good act anymore. Because of the behaviors of these people, because they are simply criminals. And the criminals cannot be going to church every Saturday, and the people are clapping in the church, clapping for them when they are when they have killed people. Umuntu cannot compare after killing Mona Lepoka Fuya, who was a number man, very good, and with a bright future. My payomuntu in that circumstances, and you go and start even talking about Pampa Media. That is no sense, Mamamba. People must behave. People must behave. This Zambia, it is Zambia. They are just a political party, UPND. But Zambia is not there. Zambia belongs to every Zambian. So the no sense, let them reflect, let them reflect on their behavior, let them reflect over the general elections which they store, and let them reflect on the behaviors they have continued to on the behavior. I think I've been annoyed because of these criminals. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_11 2:40:55

Thank you very much. The anger in our country is palpable, the fear where our country is going is palpable. It's very important that the government recognizes the true feeling of our people and attend to these grievances.

SPEAKER_17 2:41:17

Hello, good morning.

SPEAKER_11 2:41:18

Good morning, sir.

SPEAKER_17 2:41:20

Good morning, sir. How are you?

SPEAKER_11 2:41:22

My brother, introduce yourself and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_17 2:41:27

This is Humphrey calling from uh Lusaka.

SPEAKER_11 2:41:30

Humphrey, make your contribution, Humphrey.

SPEAKER_17 2:41:33

Yes, my contribution today, Ambassador Mwamba, is uh the topic that you are bringing. I let me just uh I think respond to the previous caller that was there concerning uh uh individuals and bringing also the church in the discussions. You know, when you are condemning if somebody has committed uh a uh has has made a mistake, let's not group and cluster it as a church uh or as a region or as a tribe. I think the other day I I called you, Mr. Ambassador Mamba, to tell you to say no, let's not play uh regional politics, let's not play tribal politics, let's not preach hats. Elections are fast. The discussion that we are talking about to say that no, yes, the honorable minister was shot dead. That matter is in court. Let's wait for the evidence to be produced from court, my brother.

SPEAKER_11 2:42:37

Even last time, there's an allegation, my brother. Even just a minute, just a minute. Yeah, just a minute. This is where I differ with you. Even last time, I had to differ with you. The Kafoya was killed. Which investigations have taken place? Which matter is in court? Is there any process regarding his killing or the investigations around his death that is in court? That matter is not in court. That matter is not in court. That is why that just a minute. That's why the UN, the Commonwealth, the Anglican Church, the Law Association of Zambia, churches in Zambia are calling for investigation. It's a separate matter regarding that matter is not in court. Okay.

SPEAKER_17 2:43:32

That matter is not in court, but the people that you were with are in court, actually, are in custody right now.

SPEAKER_11 2:43:39

Hello, caller, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_21 2:43:43

Uh uh, your excellency. Um, my name is uh Martin. I'm calling from uh uh Johannesburg right now.

SPEAKER_11 2:43:52

Uh Martin, Martin, how are you, my dear brother? Long time.

SPEAKER_21 2:43:55

It's been a long time. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_11 2:43:57

What happened? Did you contest in Kalulushi? Did the women beat you?

SPEAKER_21 2:44:03

Uh no women beat me. You know, Bagalamba. Uh what is happening in Zambia? I think we need a mindset change.

SPEAKER_10 2:44:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_21 2:44:12

You know, we've had uh plans to create jobs for the people, bringing the factory to us, East Manufacturing Toothpicks, which was going to employ about more than 2,500 employees. That is just internal employees, external, you know, these in part youths who will be delivering these toothpaste.

SPEAKER_11 2:44:29

So you've Matthew, you've been very passionate about Kalulushi. Uh I don't know how you dropped out, but uh, you know I was I was one of your biggest supporters. But make your contribution, Martin.

SPEAKER_21 2:44:40

So my contribution is this. I I I think uh as Zambians, we need to reflect, we need to introspect, we need to actually start thinking about the country, not start thinking about self-uh-righteousness, individuality. You know what is disappointing me is so uh I see that most of our brothers from Southern Province, and I'm gonna be blunt and honest, there are a few people who are decent or innocent who are actually criticizing what is happening in the country. And there are those who are quiet, who do not want to speak, and there are those who are just supporting mediocrity. You know, today there is division in this country of tantama proportions. Our people are scared. Our people don't want to talk, which is totally and utterly unacceptable. Because when you look at the way the things that are happening in this country, it has never happened before. There is fear, people are scared of talking, people are scared of even pointing the wrong. For me, to see a military participate in general election, especially the commandos, it's unheard of. Never in any other country this has ever happened. They have now taken the power of the police and given to the military, which shouldn't be happening. The military is there to defend the constitution and the country and its citizens and not to be killing people. What happened to Honorable Kafwa is totally and utterly unacceptable. As a country of Christian, as a Christian nation and a country of religious people, we should be able to condemn what is wrong and stand tall and upright to say we are Christians, we are not accepting this. This is totally unacceptable. You know, what is happening currently, a lot of people are coming here and pretending that this case is in court. This case is not in court. Which court is the case in today? They should talk about this. Let's be sincere and honest. These same people are actually saying these wrong things, they are the ones who are fueling hatred in other people who are seeing the wrongs and keeping quiet. Like one of my brothers said, Atingua pimpi in a kanye dele. I'm going for insofung a pimpi la kane dere. Let's be serious and be honest and sincere. And it's a pity that the people that are surrounding our leader are not being honest and sincere. Let us be honest and sincere in this country. We love peace and we should keep it that way. Then when you see something wrong there, you are putting now petrol or fire on top of what you are what is wrong. It's totally unacceptable. Upon a pegabamwamba, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_11 2:47:16

Thank you, Martin. Thank you very much. And continue to love and contribute to our country. Do not be deterred. That's a country you love. That's a country I love. And thank you very much. Thank you, Martin. Alocola, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution. Let's hear from um allocola. Please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_26 2:47:48

Thank you. Good morning, and thank you for the opportunity to speak out. This is Mother Zambia.

SPEAKER_11 2:47:58

Thank you, Mama. Make your contribution.

SPEAKER_26 2:48:02

Yes, I would like to take us to Isaiah chapter 27, verse 1, where from verse 26, where God is saying he is the one coming down in his great anger to deal with the inhabitants of the earth for their sins. And the blood of those killed will not be hidden, whether they like it or not. This is God saying. And then he says, the spirit that is prevailing in our nation is the Leviathan spirit. The Leviathan spirit is that of perversion and tyranny, oppression. These are the things we are seeing in our nation. Listening to Simu, I'm shocked. I'm angered. That is inhuman. But then that is the Leviathan spirit. You can see the pride that is in the so-called ruling party members. They think they are they are in the place of God. And now, when we look at Abel and Cain, Abel was the brother of Cain. Abel was killed because of economics. He sacrificed to God, and his sacrifice was accepted. So the brother, because of jealousy, killed the young brother. And so the blood, when it spelt on the ground, the blood mixed with the soil. And that is what he prompted God to come to that scene and ask it became. Where is your brother? Where is your brother? So how can we honestly speak like this about the killing of a brother? And his blood is on our soil, the Zambian soil. So they should anyone should not think that those minerals that they are hiring, the wealth of Zambia, they are eyeing. They'll be able to mine it. They will not. When God comes down, you will not see any wealth. All of us who suffer, there will be no one who will be spared. Even those same ruling parties, they will not enjoy the wealth because the blood of honorable kafuire is mixed with our soil. So our soil right now is cast. Mixed with the soil of Zambia and the soil from Honorable Dr. Kafaya's grave site. And let's see who will fight God of Abraham, God of Abel. If God came down when the blood of Abel called onto him, then our God is still the same God. He never changes. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. This Livyathan spirit that is prevailing in Zambia will not prevail. Will not prevail in the mighty name of Jesus. Because the blood of Jesus has been has atoned and cleansed the land of Zambia. So let all those who are proud, great pride, the Leviathan spirit of perversion and the oppression. Let's see where it will go. Already in Tanzania, one is humbled. So when we accumulate all these things that we're accumulating, who are we accumulating them for? Who are we accumulating them for? Please, Zambians, let us have a heart of flesh, not a not rock hearts. Thank you. I can't imagine a human being. Only those with no flesh can speak what we are hearing in Zambia. I don't know. God has come down in his great anger, which is indignation, is the only one to save us. Mothers, let us continue with Imi Bango, Iniemba, and the honking. In fact, we are being fired up every day. Our baby, the democracy, has been stolen. So why should my labor be in vain? I will not stop crying out to God and I will not stop speaking. I will not be silenced until my vote is recovered from the thief. Amen.

SPEAKER_11 2:53:33

Thank you, Mama. Thank you very much. Uh, I am taking the last three, four calls because we are on top of the hour. We have to end the broadcast. And you have to look forward to um our special guests at 20 hours Zambian time. Around, please tell us your name and where you are calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_06 2:53:52

Yes, Imam Romaba. I will remain and I just want to make your contribution and therefore mdokafuya, Irikukoti, or shan. I think uh with even yesterday landabu. I really don't know what we are going through. Some of us that today to because of what was happening in this nation. You know, I think sometimes we must be honest for the things what we you know, no put nan can go platform sometimes. Don't just go a platform because of your own opinion and whatever. Let's not joke with uh nan canom to joking and a nan can if you have that's not the way they should suppose to contribute. If you be an angle, if you have and they know for this understanding you kobe mini. So Awantwa Palange for some time is gulabash canamafu. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_11 2:55:01

Thank you very much. Yes, some comments are annoying, but you know, here we give an open line and we listen to everyone. Um and we don't discriminate. Hello, colour, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_41 2:55:17

Yes, uh, this is uh correct people.

SPEAKER_11 2:55:21

Yes, correct.

SPEAKER_41 2:55:24

Yes, uh just a very much concerned over the I don't know if there was a Honorable who was speaking just uh after four people here. I'm the amount of the people that are from Southern Province. Uh the term when you have the conversation on this platform. I don't think so if you include the people that are very quite. They're not saying anything. So I I myself as stronger person are very in support of what you are doing currently on social media, and we are seeing our country to be okay. So the only concern is about how people are reflecting our place, even our people, the way they put us to say we are very much abortion.

SPEAKER_11 2:56:26

My brother, you have a very great point. Most of the people from Southern Province are good. We have lived together, they've been our leaders, we've been co-leaders, we've worked together very well. We are intermarriages, you know. You know that even me, my own family is married into the family of President Akainde Echilema. You must have remembered when I came for a funeral in Choma. So I I refuse that someone should categorize the misconduct of one person. For example, that of the concerns around President Akainde Ichilema should reflect the entire people of Southern Province. No, that is wrong. The misconduct of one member cannot be the misconduct of all members. So I agree with you there that there should be no blanket generalization.

SPEAKER_41 2:57:20

Yes, because uh currently actually okay doesn't make sense to my side. If someone comes on the media and start talking about no, the people of South End have done this. We are the part we are also Zambians and we support the Mundo and MacKebi. We are supporting, even if they didn't come to Kabibe in Mazabuka or Pemba, because I I belong to Pemba, but they didn't pass there, but we are expecting them to come and do a campaign, we vote for them. You see, but again, when you hear to say you know, this one is saying this, I think it's not encouraging us, but we are still in supporting of them. Thank you.

SPEAKER_11 2:57:58

Thank you, my brother. Thank you very much. You know, that's what I always appeal to our callers. Even when we condemn Islam's tribalism, if ever caller, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make a contribution. Um I think the colour is in the bus or somewhere.

SPEAKER_18 2:58:36

Sorry, Ambassador Nabana having any name with Italy. Ambassador Natura respond. I think what's something. So because I want stepwalala. What in what I was saying and what I'm discouraging, if you're in a Zambia, whether to be back home or abroad, especially back home, because maybe Tabai ishibend that I'm Lilandira abroad. I was in Zambia in the last year where I was attacked brutally by PF Gardas by Intercity. I went to Munakwatumusamu. It was very scary.

SPEAKER_11 2:59:38

By UPND cards.

SPEAKER_18 2:59:40

Yes, there were UPN. Oh, Ambassador. It was, you know, Katwichi, they were following us for some reason. Then we went up that that uh uh office upstairs there. That lady works there, she was on our side. She was saying, ah, very fish. You know, we have lost a former head of state and is like uh in good memory. No, it's about a very strong jacket from Italy. It was very, very brutal. Very, very brutal. If I think my niece stuck with the f chance because she was trying to protect me now. So that lady was trying to take me into her office to shield me, but then I'm one of her, they were threatening her. But madame, osa kambako, madame, or something. What I wanted to say is uh we I'm discouraging notion yakovati, we wait for somebody to come and help us. We have to act. For example, we have been you've been taking lead in encouraging people to passively protest to show their discomfort, where we're saying for it's the honking is trying to do something. We know how ruthless. What it means. They can fight in the air, on the ground, and in water. They are special that we are changing issues. They are not civilians. You know, even police. So we are not encouraging to go and protest even peacefully in the streets because they will do them bad. What we we are discouraging is waiting for Americans or Europeans or God to come and help us. These people will always help us, including God. But we have to take the mantle, we have to start acting ever today, land.

SPEAKER_11 3:02:06

Thank you very much. I think your point is very clear, my dear brother. Thank you. Uh Bamabo from me telly. Thank you very much. Alo caller, please tell us your name and where you're calling us from and make your contribution.

SPEAKER_27 3:02:19

Good morning, Mr. Mamba. How are you?

SPEAKER_11 3:02:21

Honorable Olivia Piri, make your contribution.

SPEAKER_27 3:02:25

Thank you. I think my contribution, there are three things that I want to highlight. Uh, first, I want uh to follow, I think, the sentiment of the previous caller. Uh Mr. Mamba, you're doing a great job. It's sad that others want to silence everybody and they want to condemn because this is an open discussion where even themselves that feel need to defend themselves, they can make a call and highlight. But it's sad the shrinking of our democracy in this country where now people should be uh people react.

SPEAKER_11 3:03:01

Continue, we can hear you, we had lost you there, but we can hear you.

SPEAKER_27 3:03:05

What is causing people to react to the way they have been treated, it's the way we have been governed, it's the way everything is going wrong, and then and they're expecting to see everybody to be agreeing. That's a nation. I think to me, talking of the issue of the post-election, a lot of things went wrong. From that reading where we lost a life, I've seen a clip of some somebody who is talking about an officer who died during that reading. You know, more lives will not serve this country or redeem this country from the shame that happened from the post-election. So it will be very difficult for people to move on, it will be very difficult for people to reconcile when those that are responsible of the who happened, you can't take responsibility, sit down and correct the mess that is that people move forward. You can't move so much when you have stolen from people, you go and resist them, and you expect it to be surprised to me, uh UPND. Does they know there's a role of the government and there's a role of others? They need to understand that their role is their party secretariat. Anything to do with their party, they can government, they can do whatever. Who can wake up today with this international organization do they really understand government secrets? There must really be a difference between the party and the government. People need to sublime. Things did happen in the contest the way they were supposed to happen. And people are not happy. You can't go to pretend that everything is okay. My neighbor's member is one of the people that have not helped the right thing. Because we have seen my politics of the speaker.

SPEAKER_36 3:08:14

The aim that is life, how do you my vote give every fella mundobile? But I'm my results need different stories. In our two reports, the constitution is dead in front of foreign cameras up on my book, yeah, my soldier. You are that for God for that. What is the purpose of the constitution? I don't take out the time to detail to avoid the petition.

SPEAKER_11 3:10:54

Family, can you hear me?

SPEAKER_19 3:10:56

Yes, we can. Family, can you hear me? I can hear you on my end.

SPEAKER_11 3:11:03

Uh okay. Uh can Bran hear us?

SPEAKER_19 3:11:09

I think his screen up his screen up here is frozen.

SPEAKER_11 3:11:12

Uh oh, he's probably just packed up. We thought maybe uh we are winding up. Um Augustine, thank you for joining us later, and I hope I'll see you later. Let's have a discussion after this program. But make your views about my interview, what the papers say, and just uh the the issues that we've had.

SPEAKER_19 3:11:38

Ambassador, I joined uh a little a little late, um, but I've been listening to the callers. And uh thank you for having me. There are two issues that um you know I want to address this morning, uh, and uh these touch to the call of humanity. I think um as a country we must begin to take action um with regards to what is happening. And um I I want to specifically appeal to uh the Law Association of Zambia and individual lawyers in Zambia. Uh, what is happening uh in the country cannot be normalized. I watched a video by Max Moore on um Schwester uh desecrating the memory of uh Honorable Uh Mutote Kafwaya. Um this is unacceptable, and I I want to appeal to lawyers, individual lawyers, ambassador, uh, that we need to defend the memory of Honorable Kafwaya. First of all, there are people who have been thrown into prison unfairly on a fallacious allegation of treason uh that they wanted to take over the country because they were preparing an insurgency and um there was a militia. There's no militia in Zambia. Max Muay cannot continue on this narrative. We have to take him to court, we have to sue him for causing emotional distress on the family uh of vulnerable Mtoka Foya. First of all, um, this government hid the body of vulnerable Mtotaka Foya for six days. Um, they never told the family until the family, the widow, initiated a writ of habitas corpus in the high court. That is when they were smoked out and invited the family to go and identify him. You cannot go on any stage to start insulting, you know, uh uh that dead. First of all, when he was killed, they refused responsibility. They said there was no abduction uh anywhere in Lusaka or in Zambia, there was no shooting. Today, Max Moyek is going on different platforms, telling the people of Zambia that he was killed because the army believed that there was uh, you know, whatever nonsense that he's talking about. No, we all know. And we need to start holding each other accountable. These are characters that are abusing the police. When you call them out, they go to the police and report you. Ambassador, I'm appealing to the lawyers that the lawyers must rise up. Let's, you know, make sure that every yes, I know there's a lot of intimidation in Zambia. You know, uh uh Mr. Kainde Ichlema has weaponized literally every institution. Even lawyers are scared. But I want to tell the lawyers that the moment you take up this case and inform the international community, you are properly and heavily protected. No one is going to touch you for fighting for the right of any Zambian, particularly a distressed widow, a distressed orphan. We cannot allow what Maximoi is doing. We all know the truth, we all know the fact. The army invaded a private residence. They had no right to do it. If they thought that there was a criminal offense that Honorable Brian Monduir had committed, the Zambia police are the ones that should have invited Honorable Brian Monduir to the police for interrogation, then they should war they should have warned and cautioned him. If they had sufficient evidence, then they should have proceeded to arrest him. What happened was unacceptable, unconstitutional, and against the human rights, either in Zambia or elsewhere. That is number one. We need to take action against Max Moore and stop this nonsense that is uh is going about. Secondly, Ambassador, we need to take action against um the uh army commander. We've been talking about his action, we've been talking about his direction. They acted on flawed information. Now we have to put this on record. Ziele must begin to answer for his actions. There was no threat in Zambia from any militia whatsoever. He now needs to answer locally and abroad. I again appeal to the Law Association of Zambia. Let us initiate a process in the High Court or in the constitutional court. We need a local precedence to be created because we cannot normalize this misconduct, total misconduct, and we have to be on top of things. That's number two. Number three, the Zambian government must take uh Celestine Mukandila to court. He has a right to a hearing, he has a right to be heard. I think you cannot hold, even if somebody is a prohibited immigrant, you cannot hold them in a jail or in a cell for this long. That is now, you know, false imprisonment. You are jailing them for an you're punishing them because of their political opinion. Take a Celestini Mkandila to court. Take him to court, let him answer. Even a prohibited immigrant, when you know they are arrested, they have a right to go before our local courts, our magistrate courts, our high court. And candila has every right to be taken before a judge so that a judge, based on the evidence he has, based on his story, can determine and stop holding him. If he needs bail, give him bail, release him. I think it's unfair what is happening in our country, and Mr. Kainde Hdema should not continue on this score because he doesn't own Zambia. He owns those companies, his Namala farm, whatever other private entities. Zambia belongs to every one of us because it is our country. It is it doesn't belong to any, it doesn't belong to members, it doesn't belong to anyone else. It belongs to everyone of us. So Mr. Kind Hdema should not be running the country, especially that he is an illegitimate president. One who was not elected by the Zamian people, one who imposed himself using his brother in law, Ziele. And he caused a constitutional code. He must still respect the rights of every Zambia. Mukani does not deserve to be in the police cells. He is not a criminal. He has not caused any criminal offense. And we must begin to demand for justice for our people. I think those are the three things that I wanted us to make a contribution to Ambassador. And I can follow up on the rest, and we'll definitely uh convene at some point later today.

SPEAKER_11 3:18:29

Thank you very much. You are muted, Brian.

SPEAKER_10 3:18:41

Alright, yes, so Ambassador, for me, um uh I I I I really want to make this this appeal. I think um as the opposition as Tonse Pamose alliance, we want to uh put it on record that we demand for the unconditional release of President Brian Mundu and his running mate, Honorable Makebizulu, Bishop Trevor Mwamba, and the others who have been jailed for no reason at all. All the uh the the political prisoners release them unconditionally as as as as a requirement for negotiations, as a requirement of fostering peace and unity in the country. Um that is the position, the unconditional release of President Brian Mondivile and Honorable MacKebizulu, Bishop Trevor Mwamba, and the the others that are arrested, um political prisoners, please release them. This is a precondition for a peaceful country, it's a precondition for negotiations and dialogue, and nothing should come before the release. Release them, they did not do any wrong. The whole country has agreed. The president Hana Indich Lema himself, even in his heart right now, he knows there's no militia. He knows that uh Erdam Tutoka Foya was erroneously killed. That was an extrajudicial assassination. He knows, everybody knows, all of us in the country, we know what's going on. So let's stop the games, let's stop this disrespectful Max Moore and these mean political minions. Let's get back to the adult table and do what the country needs going forward, and that's the release of uh President Brian Mondville, running mate Macebe Zulu, Bishop Trevor, and everybody else who has been held as political prisoners. This is important for the peace and progress of this nation, to heal people's hearts, to reunite this nation. It's a precondition. And it's not come, it shouldn't come out because uh President Hagainde Ichlema uh is a good man or has a good heart. No, it's not that shouldn't be the basis. It it should come out of the of the needs that this country has, the need for peace, the need for progress, the need for healing, the need for unity. Those are the things that you know should determine the release. Does this country need peace? Yes, then release Brian Mundubile. Does this country need healing? Yes, then release Bran Mondu. Does this country need to go forward from what we are experiencing now? Yes, then release Brian Munduvile. If Hakka Inde Ichlema and his people and Ziele and others insist on holding these people in prison, it is it will show us that they don't want peace, they don't want healing, they don't want progress, they don't want this country to continue holding uh the credentials that the country has held in terms of democracy, peace, and and so on and so forth. So for me, I think as media director, um, I want to call on on this government, the UPND government. I I don't even know how to make to refer to them, but I want to call on everybody concerned, even international observation, the UN, the church, and so on and so forth, to come to the adults table and say, release these people. That's how we begin to to to to to to progress from this situation. There is no other way out for us and holding if anything, God forbid, anything happens to Brian Mundubile, if anything happens to Macebi Zulu, God forbid something has already happened to Mutotuka Foya. Let's not escalate this situation. It's time to de-escalate, and that de-escalation begins with the unconditional release of Brian Monduvile, Makebi Zulu, and the others.

SPEAKER_36 3:23:09

They aimed at his life. How you my vote ever banana move? My vote walibella mumdubile. But I my results need different story. The stories vote, we are in our military state. Who can speak for the people? Now that Kaffoya my fire votes are stored. Then what is the purpose of election? Democracy is died. Tell me who pulled the free die. Democracy is die. Something I used to stop. He now has power through it for the Constitution is dead in front of foreign cameras. I find on my bone fiam my soldier. You attack the boys at midnight without regard for their life. Finished Mutinabakate with guns, Navateka, no feet, who killed Mutti as that you boost me. What is the purpose of the constitution? Oh you did take a position to find the position for the tree.

SPEAKER_35 3:26:30

Some be eyes, danger so much.

SPEAKER_09 3:27:03

Show that provide facts, opinions, and reflections. On what the papers say, we frame key facts to provide a balanced perspective. Set the national agenda and focusing on cross-referencing newspaper coverage with primary data. Expert and special guests to offer an in-depth look at daily stories.

SPEAKER_08 3:27:26

Live on ENV, I'm talking about thirty five.